Productiondate on orig. breeders packs Yes/No

I am just pissed off seed resellers selling old or wrong stored seeds that wouldnt germinate for a lot of money!

I have ordered the same strain from two different resellers along with other seeds.
From one reseller all seeds germinated in a max. Time of undrer 30 hours from the other reseller I had a shitty rate of 2 germinated out of the 10 seeds.

As I know from my experimenting with my selfmade seeds -

as long as they fully matured ,
are not old seeds,
and have been stored right,

you place them into a jiffy or throw them in a glass of water and they will germinate under the right conditions. Most of the time all seeds will germinate.

So I say you can not blame the breeder and the genetics used in the first place because its not the breeders fault when you got ripped off with old or not well stored seeds by dubios resellers.

Thats why I would like to see a production date on every original breeders pack visible without the need to open the pack to see the date.

That way you could ask your reseller before ordering wich date is on the pack and decide for yourself before placing an order, and spend your hardly earned money for it.

If the date shows the seeds are fresh and they dont germinate anyways, you could blame the breeder for doing a shitroad job or eventually the reseller for not storing the seeds the right way, or yourself for doing something wrong.

I think a date of production would be a first step towards transparency.
A honest breeder will not have a problem with that.
The same for a honest reseller.

Now I would like to see what other people think about that.

Please vote

Thanks and Peace

ohh good question ! i would love to see the same transparency as in large scale breeding . onoin seeds are only good for 18 months so there is a ugency there that we have very little concept of in cannabis breeding ... we are lucky for the longevity in our seed stocks..

We have gone over this before, most of us agree that labeling is a good tool especially when it comes to "bad batches" it would be easier to pin down when the problem happened and to whom. I see nothing but positive coming from batch numbers but I can see how people who already invested in a shit ton of seeds would not want that as they don't care if they pop they just want their money back plus some.

Although thought provoking and a good idea, that will never happen. I did receiver a breeder pack of Sweet Seeds recently and it did have a date stamp on it which was cool. But the banks aren't going to start chucking seeds into the round bin because of limited shelf life....that's $$$

I just cracked some beans. All are over two years old. They were stored in a freezer, then taken out for a while, stored back in the freezer and again taken out and moved half way across the country where they sat until now.

They've been though hell and back.

Of the 13 I germ'd all but one cracked over night. Still waiting on the last one to crack but hopefully the widow will make her appearance yet.

All in all, some seeds just flake out.

ricky1lung said:

I just cracked some beans. All are over two years old. They were stored in a freezer, then taken out for a while, stored back in the freezer and again taken out and moved half way across the country where they sat until now.

They've been though hell and back.

Of the 13 I germ'd all but one cracked over night. Still waiting on the last one to crack but hopefully the widow will make her appearance yet.

All in all, some seeds just flake out.

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That is where batch numbers shine, it would make it easier to pinpoint real problems.

Oddjob said:

Although thought provoking and a good idea, that will never happen. I did receiver a breeder pack of Sweet Seeds recently and it did have a date stamp on it which was cool. But the banks aren't going to start chucking seeds into the round bin because of limited shelf life....that's $$$

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This is very true!
Its all about the dollar.

But on the other hand... no reseller can stop a breeder putting the date of production on his product.

Its good for a breeder to do that because of his reputation can not go down shitroad due to a dubios reseller sellin very old stock of him.

The resellers at least those dubios ones with a wrong storingtechnique or those with little salerates will hate that.
I am sure reputable breeders would be ok with restocking resellers stock in most cases if its gone old as long as the reseller sends back the old stock.

But I see with most people in this buisness that will not happen.

At least not as long as the pressure of the customer side is not getting too big.
I mean the dollars comming from us and when we avoid buying seeds without a production date on the packs we buy they can not earn the dollar.

Edit
all my compliments go out to sweet seeds for doing it^^
THUMBS UP!!

I find this to be a very interesting topic im a breeder and would gladly put a packaging date or harvest date on the pack of seeds its somthing ive never even thought of

i often wonder how they are stored after they go on to the next destination i really feal that how they were stored label might be a better label to judge the viability of the seed

i use seeds that are several years old quite often and am trying to get some seeds from another breeder that are 10+ years old and am willing to pay top $$$ for them and they have great germination rates and when would the lable be dated harvest date ,or when the breeder is done with testing and decides the strain is stable and ready for the market becouse there could be a couple years of testing before the breeder decides the strain is worthy of puting their name and reputation on the line and is ready for market, or when the breeder ships the seeds to the next destination

i think there are several different factors that go into how long a seed can be stored before you start to see a drop in germination rates how they were grown, harvested, cured, handled, temps, humidity, packaging exc really the list could get quite long and age is definitely one of them

And realy what would be the industry standard for to old are all of the consumers now only going to want a seed thats been harvested in the last 3 months

im sure there are breeders that just ship seeds out as soon as they have been harvested especially with the latest craze strains trying to capitalize on the current demand of a popular strain before the fad is over and some other strain is now the latest craze when realy its going to take a 4 month min (from germination to cure finished product then you still have to have people test the flower) just to do the first test run on the new cross that was created

i dont feal comfortable only doing one short test run and stamping my name on it and sending it to market i like to have them grown in several different ways indoor, outdoor, organic, synthetic exc if a strain is created i the fall its going to be the following season before they can be tested outdoor id hate to see breeders not testing their strains because of fear that no one would want them due to a boorn on date

i have seeds that ive tested for 2 years before i felt comfortable putting my name on them and and i know other breeders that do extensive testing thats what sets them apart

But i like the idea of being transparent about the age of the seeds it dosent take anymore effort or $$$ to put a date on the seed package

I think batch numbers are a great idea

Whats more desirable a strain thats been tested for 1-2 years that has a 2 year old date on it

Or an untested strain that has a 3 month old date on it

Are customers not going to understand how long it takes to test a genetic and freak out about a pack of seeds that are a couple years old

Im thinking it would have to be the date the seeds were sent out from the breeder
or the date the breeder deemed the strian stable and ready to be shiped just incase the breeder had them sitting around for awhile before they were distributed

dr underground....,and if u shoot them an email, they will give you all the info: harvest date, packageing date, and even who they sold it to- so u kno,how many hands it has past

amgprb said:

View attachment 3467894 View attachment 3467895 dr underground....,and if u shoot them an email, they will give you all the info: harvest date, packageing date, and even who they sold it to- so u kno,how many hands it has past

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Thats extremely professional customer service thats the stuff that makes companies stand out from the rest

My pet peve is tracking info i cant stand in todays world that people send stuff with no tracking info i want to know when my purchased items are going to be there especially cannabis seeds i dont want them baking in my black mail box all day it gets into the tripple digits quite often where i live i send all packages with tracking info and make sure i delever them to a postage facility so their items dont get baked or frozen in some mail box some where

hells canyon genetics said:

I find this to be a very interesting topic im a breeder and would gladly put a packaging date or harvest date on the pack of seeds its somthing ive never even thought of

i often wonder how they are stored after they go on to the next destination i really feal that how they were stored label might be a better label to judge the viability of the seed

i use seeds that are several years old quite often and am trying to get some seeds from another breeder that are 10+ years old and am willing to pay top $$$ for them and they have great germination rates and when would the lable be dated harvest date ,or when the breeder is done with testing and decides the strain is stable and ready for the market becouse there could be a couple years of testing before the breeder decides the strain is worthy of puting their name and reputation on the line and is ready for market, or when the breeder ships the seeds to the next destination

i think there are several different factors that go into how long a seed can be stored before you start to see a drop in germination rates how they were grown, harvested, cured, handled, temps, humidity, packaging exc really the list could get quite long and age is definitely one of them

And realy what would be the industry standard for to old are all of the consumers now only going to want a seed thats been harvested in the last 3 months

im sure there are breeders that just ship seeds out as soon as they have been harvested especially with the latest craze strains trying to capitalize on the current demand of a popular strain before the fad is over and some other strain is now the latest craze when realy its going to take a 4 month min (from germination to cure finished product then you still have to have people test the flower) just to do the first test run on the new cross that was created

i dont feal comfortable only doing one short test run and stamping my name on it and sending it to market i like to have them grown in several different ways indoor, outdoor, organic, synthetic exc if a strain is created i the fall its going to be the following season before they can be tested outdoor id hate to see breeders not testing their strains because of fear that no one would want them due to a boorn on date

i have seeds that ive tested for 2 years before i felt comfortable putting my name on them and and i know other breeders that do extensive testing thats what sets them apart

But i like the idea of being transparent about the age of the seeds it dosent take anymore effort or $$$ to put a date on the seed package

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Thats some good ambitions! My compliment.

In my experience seeds can germinate without a problem long time after production when stored right.

But I see people very often blaming the breeder for bad germination rates. And this is wrong because at the moment tge seeds leaving the breeders hands he has no chance to control how the seeds are handled.

Because of my own experience I try to order seeds directly from the breeder. Without a middleman. I dont care if this adds to more shipping costs because I have to order at different places.

@ hells canyon genetics

I agree with most of your points.

So if you have tested a strain lets say 12+ month and you see its fire you know the female and male used do a good job together.... why not making fresh seeds instead of selling the testbatch?
As long as a breeder keeps the parent plants around thats no problem from my point of view.
put a batchnumber on it and run a subsection on your website where customer can type in the number and find the info on the batch.

Some that have the space can and do keep both parents around usually keep the pollen from the male keeping a male for long periods of time is possible but not exactly easy to do and keep the female but shit happens clones die and pollen becomes non viable in a proximity 6 months in optimum conditions and can spoil in weeks in not so optimum conditions

And trying to stay in my plant numbers that the state alows me to have this would be extremely hard to do and would make the price of the seed go up ALOT im not going to have a houndred plants around and go back to the joint to take 12 months of of a seeds shelf life there are already breeders facing federal charges from having more plants than they should of

Its not like you take one male and one female to make a batch of seeds it takes alot of females to make a decent amount of seeds and it takes alot of planning and resources to pull it of so this could double the price of the seed if a breeder is going to have to do the process twice

Cannabis is an anual and is not designed to be kept alive for long periods of time so keeping a female alive for years can bring on unwanted problems in its self genetic mutations and make its amune system Not able to fight off bug, fungus exc so theres no guarantee that if you breed them back together a year plus later your going to end up with the same hardy fire strain chances are that it would not be exactly the same and one or both of the parents could pass down an desirable trate and i still would want to do the same testson them as the first batch id hate to just send an un tested batch of seeds out hats the kind of stuff that will run a breeders name into the mud i started breeding so i wouldent have to keep mother plants around for long periodsof time id really hate to go back to doing so

And really if you have a defective batch of seeds the breeder should comp you a new pack thats part of doing good business

And to get back to your post you received the same strain from 2 different distributors and had different results so im lead to beleve that it was a storage problem and not a how old is the seed was problem useuly a breeder will only do one run of a strain of seeds and if they do another batch of thr same strain it will be from the seed stock from the original batch not from old mothers and father plants

Im totaly down with an accountability system nothings worst than wasting abunch of time and resources on junk seeds i purchased 5 packs from a WELL KNOWN breeder awhile back i got them straight from the breder hand to hand transaction no middle man no mail and not only did they fucking suck all of the females in the batch hermaphrodited on me true hermies female flowers with male pollen pods below them so im lead to beleve he did not test the batch at all ever just sold them and i got burnt wasted a bunch of $$$ on the seeds,dirt,lights,nutes exc it costed me tousands and a few months of my time

hells canyon genetics said:

Some that have the space can and do keep both parents around usually keep the pollen from the male keeping a male for long periods of time is possible but not exactly easy to do and keep the female but shit happens clones die and pollen becomes non viable in a proximity 6 months in optimum conditions and can spoil in weeks in not so optimum conditions

And trying to stay in my plant numbers that the state alows me to have this would be extremely hard to do and would make the price of the seed go up ALOT im not going to have a houndred plants around and go back to the joint to take 12 months of of a seeds shelf life there are already breeders facing federal charges from having more plants than they should of

Its not like you take one male and one female to make a batch of seeds it takes alot of females to make a decent amount of seeds and it takes alot of planning and resources to pull it of so this could double the price of the seed if a breeder is going to have to do the process twice

Cannabis is an anual and is not designed to be kept alive for long periods of time so keeping a female alive for years can bring on unwanted problems in its self genetic mutations and make its amune system Not able to fight off bug, fungus exc so theres no guarantee that if you breed them back together a year plus later your going to end up with the same hardy fire strain chances are that it would not be exactly the same and one or both of the parents could pass down an desirable trate and i still would want to do the same testson them as the first batch id hate to just send an un tested batch of seeds out hats the kind of stuff that will run a breeders name into the mud i started breeding so i wouldent have to keep mother plants around for long periodsof time id really hate to go back to doing so

And really if you have a defective batch of seeds the breeder should comp you a new pack thats part of doing good business

And to get back to your post you received the same strain from 2 different distributors and had different results so im lead to beleve that it was a storage problem and not a how old is the seed was problem useuly a breeder will only do one run of a strain of seeds and if they do another batch of thr same strain it will be from the seed stock from the original batch not from old mothers and father plants

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I have to agree with most of your statements and disagree with others.

Dont take anything I say as an offense it is not ment to be offensive please.

1. There is nothing to say against you selling your seeds tested a year or two after production absolutly okay doing so.
Its always better to buy a tested strain!

2. I understand your concern about staying with your plant numbers.
But you agree that this is limiting you Id believe.
you are bot able to male and femake parents around as many and as long as you would when plantcount would be unlimited.

3. The genetics of a individual motherplant dont changes significantly when the plant lives in optimal conditions. Lets say 10 years are no problem as long as you clone her in frequence of kets say 2 years to restore the mother with the clone. Its an exact copy of the first plant there is nothing lost.
But a well kept motherroom us extra cost and extra effort. Sensi Seeds keep their mothers around for decades with no problems for example.
with limits on plantcount you would limit yourself a lot when it comes to the numbers of strains you are selling and a few more things. The marjet is begging for new strains every fucking year I know that.
I fully on your side in this case.
but still I say as long as a motherplant can be jept the right way the genetics do not water down by a lil bit of time.
have seen mitherplants as old as 15 years and they are far away from watering down genetically thats why I disagree with this sratement.
you sound like a honest fellow.... tell me if you would not have a plantcount limit would you like to keep your fire moms n dads around for some time in a tiny parentsroom or not?

4. Yes I have the same opinion on my seedpurchase.... one reseller had a storing problem.
so if there was a batchnumber or date of production on the packs it would have been easy for me to figure that out. But there was nothing on it so it could have been a bad patch but its also possible he sold me old seeds because he is a small reseller with low salerates and who knows how long he stored the seeds under his couch before I bought them. So no chance to say it was a bad patch or storing and prevent others from buying the same trash if so.

Peace

Edit
I would recomend to keep your best most loved mother for further backcrossing to stabilize the line. Just 1 plant. You will see you will get a lot more reputation than with crosses. And at the end of the day you have your own selfmade ibl line that only you have and people will love that. She will only need a tiny lil spot in your vegroom and some love but she will give ya back soooo much. It is worth it.

hells canyon genetics said:

Im totaly down with an accountability system nothings worst than wasting abunch of time and resources on junk seeds i purchased 5 packs from a WELL KNOWN breeder awhile back i got them straight from the breder hand to hand transaction no middle man no mail and not only did they fucking suck all of the females in the batch hermaphrodited on me true hermies female flowers with male pollen pods below them so im lead to beleve he did not test the batch at all ever just sold them and i got burnt wasted a bunch of $$$ on the seeds,dirt,lights,nutes exc it costed me tousands and a few months of my time

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Yeah thats a good example for untested seeds going out to the market. Thank you for sharing that information!
I believe it was a so called BREEDER WITH A CLASS A REPUTATION
Those kind who breed with numbers of plants they were not able to count alone and needed two more people to just count the plants.
a lot of hype is all that makes their seeds.
I even know a few breeders as well as resellers tuning the reviews of their product on seedfinder and other pages of that kind. They nearly own this site.
They are only in for the dollar and not for passion. They use fakehandles to post fake reviews dunno if the siteowners know about that but they take their money to run the site. For example
you can read statements on ketama xaeon of plants finisged in august outdoors lmao I have thus strain along with others outdoors and it not even shows one preflower by now where other plants straight going into flower at the moment.
Its just because in europe only few people buy landrace and vefore their seeds get to old the start hype like that to up salerates. Simple fraud marketing.

For most of breeders its just to cross two plants that are very saught after and alot of hype around it at the moment and throw the result on the market dont matter what people end up with...sell sell sell $$$ $$$ $$$.
like in your case a bunch of hermies. Its a shame that those people make money with fraud

Most of the time the smaller breeder do a way better job because he us passionate abd simply not able or not willing to throw 10 new strains out of their ass every year.

Hell if i could have unlimited numbers you would need a search party to find me in my garden i live in a wheat farming community and have access to hundreds of acres of wheat and or hay fields that my family owns lol gawd that would be the dream lol

What ive been posting is more just thoughts im sharing just trying to think out loud

(((((For most of breeders its just to cross two plants that are very saught after and alot of hype around it at the moment and throw the result on the market dont matter what people end up with...sell sell sell $$$ $$$ $$$.
like in your case a bunch of hermies. Its a shame that those people make money with fraud))))))

^^^^^^^ id like to just throw this guys name out there but thats not to respectable and id have a huge backlash for doing so but a simple google search on reviews i found a shit ton of others that had the same problem as i did they had just came out the strain when i purchased them i googled them before i purchased them and their was no info out there yet i purchased them from the breeders booth at the seattle cannabis cup/hemp fest last summer fuck that alone almost broke me they pollinated my whole dam stalk of plants