PPm's vs ml per Gallon?

Versant

Member
High Versant.

43ppm out of the tap is pretty damn good. Town water here is 350-450 depending on the season and tastes like dirt. Even with the Brita filter it tastes like dirt so when we lived in town we were already buying RO for drinking. On the acreage here our tap water comes out of a large dugout on my property, gets filtered down to 5micron but has no sterilization so we still buy RO for drinking and for my plants.

1800ppm for your nutes is pretty high. I'll maybe get up to 1400 with a heavy feeding type strain like Kush but generally I'm looking at a max of a 1000ppm going into flowering. I have very low humidity too tho and will be looking to drop my ppm about 25% to prevent toxic salts buildup, TSB, that has been giving me crispy leaves around the 5th week of flower.

The lower the humidity the faster the plant transpires water and at high ppm draws up more nutes than it can use so stores them in the leaves. Eventually the extra salts start cooking the leaves and what you think is normal yellowing of the fan leaves later in flowering is TSB. Normal yellowing gives you soft, thinner leaves where TSB gives you dry, crispy and thick leaves.

Now that I got that figured out I'll use lower ppm levels rather than try to keep the RH higher which is damn near impossible here without a big humidifier.

View attachment 4036891
Love the chart, thank you for posting that. I had no idea how high ppm's were in different states, cities. We need to get this under control..have no idea where to begin :(
I think your right on my ppm's. Think someone else said they were to high. I've just seen post were some push up to 2000ppm. I'm not sure where to cut..this 1800 is only 10ml of Mills A-B (5 ml of each) 7ml cal mag, 5ml big bud, and 25ml roots organic buddah bloom. I water about every 4 days. No burn issues as of yet.

Lots of solid info...still learning all the symptoms of sick plants, for a weed they can be sensitive :)

Happy growing :)
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
I found a great spot to download FREE POT BOOKS. I downloaded a grow bible first and got lots more. Books look great and complete like the real ones I have here. No web site but just a page of links. Just right click on what you want and then "Save Link As" to download so they don't open first as some are 50+ megs. They got lots. Enjoy.
 

SdMEDgrower

Active Member
High Versant.

43ppm out of the tap is pretty damn good. Town water here is 350-450 depending on the season and tastes like dirt. Even with the Brita filter it tastes like dirt so when we lived in town we were already buying RO for drinking. On the acreage here our tap water comes out of a large dugout on my property, gets filtered down to 5micron but has no sterilization so we still buy RO for drinking and for my plants.

1800ppm for your nutes is pretty high. I'll maybe get up to 1400 with a heavy feeding type strain like Kush but generally I'm looking at a max of a 1000ppm going into flowering. I have very low humidity too tho and will be looking to drop my ppm about 25% to prevent toxic salts buildup, TSB, that has been giving me crispy leaves around the 5th week of flower.

The lower the humidity the faster the plant transpires water and at high ppm draws up more nutes than it can use so stores them in the leaves. Eventually the extra salts start cooking the leaves and what you think is normal yellowing of the fan leaves later in flowering is TSB. Normal yellowing gives you soft, thinner leaves where TSB gives you dry, crispy and thick leaves.

Now that I got that figured out I'll use lower ppm levels rather than try to keep the RH higher which is damn near impossible here without a big humidifier.

View attachment 4036891
I gave one of my (experimental)plants tap water today at 420 ppm out the tap I just pHd it to about 6.5 and she freekin' Loved it chlorine and everything!
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
I gave one of my (experimental)plants tap water today at 420 ppm out the tap I just pHd it to about 6.5 and she freekin' Loved it chlorine and everything!
If your tap water was 4200ppm would you use it for your plants? After 10 waterings you just did.

The plants use almost none of the minerals in the tap water so like the scale that builds up in your kettle or coffee maker it builds up in the soil.

It's a lot harder to get rid of than any excess salts from nutes.

Proceed with caution.
 

SdMEDgrower

Active Member
If your tap water was 4200ppm would you use it for your plants? After 10 waterings you just did.

The plants use almost none of the minerals in the tap water so like the scale that builds up in your kettle or coffee maker it builds up in the soil.

It's a lot harder to get rid of than any excess salts from nutes.

Proceed with caution.
Say no more! I'll definitely stick to RO
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Say no more! I'll definitely stick to RO
If you can it is the best way to go. You hear all the time that if you do you need lots of extra CalMag and that's not true. I never had it for 10 years of doing DWC with the old AN nutes and never once saw a real Ca deficiency. I always used a bit of Epsom salts but it doesn't supply Ca. I even made my own calcium nitrate using marble chips and nitric acid and didn't see any difference. I now use CalMag at about 1/4 of what's recommended just to be sure.

Seems like the last few years all the nOObs think CalMag is the magic bullet like penicillin was when it first came out. Not so.

Any quality nute or soil/soiless blend will have more than enough Ca for a first grow. Reusing that mix may need supplements but if you are using soil then add a bit of domalitic lime or gypsum to it and you're covered.

Observe your plants. Get the feel for when they are happy or wanting something. You saw your plant get perked up when you watered it. Was that just because it was thirsty or did it get something it lacked? It's a bit like plant-whispering and it takes a lot of careful observation and experience to trust your instincts but it works.

You can't take two different plants or even the same strain grown from seed and use them to experiment with. They need to be clones from the same mother that have identical growth characteristics but have one thing different that you do to them to see if that one thing makes a real difference. That's the basis for any real observation that means anything. I've done a lot of those over the years directed by my training as a chemist. To do it right you need to have it happen every time as in reproducibility of the same experiment.

Just growing the plants is fun enough so everyone should just relax as they aren't any harder to grow than tomatoes!

:peace:
 

SdMEDgrower

Active Member
If you can it is the best way to go. You hear all the time that if you do you need lots of extra CalMag and that's not true. I never had it for 10 years of doing DWC with the old AN nutes and never once saw a real Ca deficiency. I always used a bit of Epsom salts but it doesn't supply Ca. I even made my own calcium nitrate using marble chips and nitric acid and didn't see any difference. I now use CalMag at about 1/4 of what's recommended just to be sure.

Seems like the last few years all the nOObs think CalMag is the magic bullet like penicillin was when it first came out. Not so.

Any quality nute or soil/soiless blend will have more than enough Ca for a first grow. Reusing that mix may need supplements but if you are using soil then add a bit of domalitic lime or gypsum to it and you're covered.

Observe your plants. Get the feel for when they are happy or wanting something. You saw your plant get perked up when you watered it. Was that just because it was thirsty or did it get something it lacked? It's a bit like plant-whispering and it takes a lot of careful observation and experience to trust your instincts but it works.

You can't take two different plants or even the same strain grown from seed and use them to experiment with. They need to be clones from the same mother that have identical growth characteristics but have one thing different that you do to them to see if that one thing makes a real difference. That's the basis for any real observation that means anything. I've done a lot of those over the years directed by my training as a chemist. To do it right you need to have it happen every time as in reproducibility of the same experiment.

Just growing the plants is fun enough so everyone should just relax as they aren't any harder to grow than tomatoes!

:peace:
I love the challenge, I couldn't be any Greener when it comes to this lol:wall: ... Some guy told me it was going to be easy..HA HA I'm sure he didn't do right!:finger:
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
It's not hard to do.

Since I was a kid I knew that the world would work a lot better if they just listened to me. LOL

As an adult that went back to school in his 30s and got a diploma in environmental chemistry after three years I realized I was right but didn't have all the info needed to be sure.

Every discovery has to have well defined parameters. To that end all variables have to be equal except for the one you are observing for the change whether good or bad,

Once you "publish" your results then your "peers" need to try it and publish their results to make it real.

Hopefully pot reviews are peer reviewed but most are not.

I totally grok Sheldon. :)
 

Top notch

Active Member
All I can say is I've been a farmer for quite some time and through all my experience it's about finding out how little you can feed your girls and still keep them at optimum health. With that being said I've found there is never any reason to exceed 800-850ppms ever less is deffinently more when it comes to nutrients. Also make sure to inoculate weekly with microbes either mammoth p or photosynthesis plus from microbe life and always supplement extra calmag. So if you feed any higher than that drop your numbers and watch your quality and yield soar if you don't trust me pick up a small bottle of microbes or ask your local hydro store for a sample and do a side by side and you'll undetstand what I'm talking about here's a few examples20171104_185139.jpg 20171028_181236.jpg
 

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ruwtz

Well-Known Member
All I can say is I've been a farmer for quite some time and through all my experience it's about finding out how little you can feed your girls and still keep them at optimum health. With that being said I've found there is never any reason to exceed 800-850ppms ever less is deffinently more when it comes to nutrients. Also make sure to inoculate weekly with microbes either mammoth p or photosynthesis plus from microbe life and always supplement extra calmag. So if you feed any higher than that drop your numbers and watch your quality and yield soar if you don't trust me pick up a small bottle of microbes or ask your local hydro store for a sample and do a side by side and you'll undetstand what I'm talking about here's a few examplesView attachment 4042117 View attachment 4042118
All very sound and sensible advice!

I discovered very quickly the correlatory relationship between concentration of nutrient solution and rate of fertigation. In early bloom I would feed 3 times per day, increasing by 1 additional feed per week and maxing at 7 feed/waterings per day. And if over that increase I did not reduce my EC by a point or two each time I would soon run into lockout issues, with such problems being exacerbated with the use of teas/inoculants etc.

These days i'm feeding at 1.1/1.2 by max bloom week 6 and zero issues with salty root zone, and dial it back further until finish (no flush). Happy plants throughout.

Getting this correct for a specific garden requires study and trial. I run coco drip dtw with dry salts and everything from pump power, line pressure, dripper size and timer duration all have to be accounted for when setting an accurate and stable fertigation program, but has improved results considerably (all other things in environment being equal of course; your garden is only ever as good as its limiting factor).
 
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