Potency Difference between Quick-Dried & Long-Cured Buds

PLEASE READ THROUGHOUT IF THE SUBJECT INTERESTS YOU:leaf:

Here's what i've learned after a week of researching the subject; in the most simple sense:

Cannabinoids are a group of chemical compounds with a similar chemical base structure but different properties ; each of them affects the human brain in it's own way, because our nervous system is wired to react to these chemical via a group of receptors in the brain called Cannabinoid receptors. The reason we have these receptors wired in our brains is that our own body produces various kinds of cannabinoids, but not the one's a cannabis plant produces.
Cannabinoids have various properties, some are psychoactive, some are not, some are neuroprotective, some are antidepressant, and so on...

The different percentage of these cannabinoids and the mix they make in a single plant, is what give's each strain it's unique high. (because not only have each of these cannabinoids it's own properties and effects, but the ratio and different percentages of different cannabinoids together affects the overall effects)

the cannabis plant produces a lot of different cannabinoids both actively and passively (actively means that certain cannabinoid is directly the product of a biosynthesis reaction in the plant, and passively means that the cannabinoid is produced by some changes in an already produced cannabinoid by the plant, due to environmental factors such as heat, oxygen in the air and light.

not all of the the many cannabinoids produced by the plant have been studied properly and there is simply still very little info about the effects and properties of some of them, but there are 3 main cannabinoids that's been studied the most, and are believed to be in charge for the most of the effects we get from using the plant, namely:

-THC
-CBD
-CBN


THC and CBD are actively produced cannabinoids, that means your plant has put time and effort, trying to produce them in its trichomes. As long as a trichome has a head, there are THC and CBD being produced in that trichome. also when a trichome reaches a high concentration of THC and CBD, it turns milky in color.

THC
is the main psychoactive cannabinoid responsible for the psychedelic effects of the high. it alters your consciousness and gives you visions, makes you creative, alters yours general perception which sometime causes anxieties, panics and some oder disorders.

CBD is not psychoactive but it affects the high in the way that it reduces certain aspects of psychoactive effects of THC, making the high less psychedelic, but more enjoyable, because it's a neuroprotective (protects the nervous system) and therefore reduces chances of anxiety, panic, etc. CBD has also many other therapeutic and medicinal properties such as Anticonvulsant properties (reducing seizures), Antimicrobial and Anticancer.

For Example a bud with 20% THC and 0.5% CBD would give a strong psychoactive high, with a lot of psychedelic effects, a strong body buzz (electrified-like), possible accelerated heart rate and extreme sensations and feelings, along with paranoia, anxiety, panics, etc. As This is the case with the most Sativa dominant plants.

On the other hand a bud with 20% THC and 2.5% CBD would give a more relaxed, happier and clearer high, mimicking a more narcotic effect. As is the case with most Indica dominant plants.


On the other hand, CBN is a passively produced cannabinoid, that means your plant NEVER tried to produce it. the THC produced by your plants, will change to CBN after a while because of two items: Air and Light.

CBN impacts the high of your smoke in 2 ways
:

1. CBN itself has a mild psychoactive effect different from THC which is more dissociative than psychedelic ( clouds up your minds and thoughts, makes you unable to concentrate or have a grab of time, etc. )

2. CBN is the THC degraded, therefore more CBN equals to less THC; less THC means a higher ratio of CBD to THC.​

These two work together and make the so called Couch-Lock effect.



END OF PART 1
 
THC
Doesn't THC also have different, and separate, 'strains'???

Delta 9 THC
Delta 8 THC....

Link to Wiki page about THC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol
completely right my friend, THC has many ISOMERS, that means they all have the formula of C[SUB]21[/SUB]H[SUB]30[/SUB]O[SUB]2 [/SUB](meaning they all have 21 atoms of Carbon, 30 atoms of Hydrogen and 2 atoms of Oxygen) and they are all put together in the same coordination as this: 200px-Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol-from-tosylate-xtal-3D-balls.png. the only thing that differs in different ISOMERS of THC is the type of the bonds between those atoms! because of that, although they're not identical to each other, but the difference between different isomers are so low that lays only within the interest of biochemists, not growers or users. that's why i didn't want to get to that, to avoid further complications :)

and to be exact, the plant doesn't produce any THC itself, it produces THCA, which is the acid form of THC ( it has 2 COOH groups that THC doesn't ).
the THCA is being stored in the trichomes, and no matter your plant is still alive or dead, that THCA has a definite life time; after that it's time has come, depending on the environmental factors surrounding it, it will either lose that 2 extra COOH groups and become THC ( due to heat and air ), OR it will degrade ( due to Light and Oxygen ) and becomes CBN.
 
the Indica plants produce most of their "ever-going-to-be-produced" THCA in the early flowering phases of the plant; that means by the time that the whole plant is ready for harvest (swollen calyxes, size of the buds, pistils receding, etc.) a greater deal of the THCA molecules produced early by the plant have reached the end of their lives, leaving the plant with more CBN and a higher ratio of CBD to THC. (the more amber trichomes in indica plants) thats why gives the indica its high characteristics.

on the other hand, a Sativa plant, produces most of its THCA in the trichomes later in flowering, and it never really stops producing more and more THCA in its trichomes. therefore at the time of harvest, practically no THCA has reached the end of its life, besides the plant is still producing them. that leaves you with more THC in the plant, less CBN and a smaller CBD to THC ratio, giving the characteristics of the saliva high
 
there is also a difference between sativa and indica plants, other than their pattern of THCA production throughout their flowering period, and thats that the Trichomes of a sativa plant, a more resistant to light and air, therefore protecting their THC content better and avoiding it from degradation and becoming CBN in the life of the plant and in the curing/drying process.
 
So there IS a difference between Quick-Dried and Long-Cured potency!!

remember this post?

here's another useful chart, showing the full biosynthesis of all cannabinoids and the factor involved:

View attachment 2987964

believing in things with no source or reference and the bad habit of assuming things without even bothering to even explain are the main reasons why there are so many false info everywhere, my friend :)
now i took the picture and edited it to show only the production of THC, CBD and CBN, to be more comprehensive, i think you'll find it useful if you pay enough attention to it:

cannabinoidsynthesis.jpg

now that means: CBN would be produced, ONLY from THCA, and NOT FROM THC.
and that means: the longer you keep THCA molecules, the more CBN instead of THC is gonna be produced by those THCA molecules.
now WHEN you got MORE THCA than THC in the plant?! when the plant is still WET! and when i say WET it means no matter dead or alive!
that is the production of THCA which stops when you cut the plant dead, but the conversion of that THCA to either THC or CBN is gonna continue until there are no more THCA left in the plant material.

SO, when you quick-dry your bud, you are turning all of that THCA in your wet bud, into THC, by heating the bud and therefore releasing the COOH group ( Decarboxylation), you don't give those THCA molecules time, to receive more light and air, to become CBN!

BUT when you dry for a longer time, and then cure, it means you're preserving the moisture in your buds for a longer time, that moisture causes the THCA molecules to live longer and not turn to THC instantly, by giving them more time you raise the chance of them being degraded and change to CBN, more than to THC!
 

|B3RNY|

Well-Known Member
Most of the 'good stuff' in your buds is not even psychoactive until it is cured or heated... Read up a little on decarboxylation & psychoactivity. Truthfully, if you do somehow get high from a quick dried bud; the properly cured bud from the same harvest is likely to blow your mind. I usually have more than enough to smoke after a harvest & I always cure for atleast 2 weeks before I really begin to smoke any (except when I "sneak" a bud here or there because I have no patience), at 2 weeks there is a major difference in potency, for the better. At times, I'll have to smoke the same weed (same plant even) for months on end, if I have a relaticely large harvest and I've always noticed that the longer my buds cure (truly cure)- the better the smoke gets.. even though by then I have built a tolerance to said strain/plant. I've done this for up to 10 months. I've heard a few breeders say that they cure buds for ATLEAST 9 months before they enter them into a 'cup.' Curing is important and can 'make or break' your flowers.
 
my friend, did you even read what i've written?! DECARBOXYLATION is not as hard to understand as the name may look to you, and it was one of the things i tried to explain to you guys here. please read all i've written completely, and then if you had something to not agree with in what i've just explained, i'll be happy to hear it, along with your reasons and explanations on why you think its false! :)

i didn't want to conclude curing is GOOD or BAD, i just tried to explain what happens to the cannabinoids when you treat them in each way.

all i've written is based on academic and scientific studies done by biochemists, neuroscientists and botanists, and i've gave the you the links of the sources too!!

So if all you have to say against some scientific FACTS is " OH NO, YOURE WRONG, CURING IS GOOOOOD!", then unfortunately i have to say that i feel i'm wasting my time… :(
 
" Cannabinol or (CBN) is an oxidative degradation product of THC. It may result from improper storage or curing and extensive processing, such as when making concentrates. It is usually formed when THC is exposed to UV light and oxygen over time.
  • CBN has some psychoactive properties, about 10% of the strength of THC.
  • CBN is thought by researchers to enhance the dizziness and disorientation users of cannabis may experience.
  • It may cause feelings of grogginess and has been shown to reduce heart rate. "
Source: http://pureanalytics.net/blog/2011/12/12/medicinal-cannabinoid-faq-what-are-thc-cbd-cbn-cbc-and-…/
 
Cannabinoids (THC, CBD, CBN...)


The Active Ingredients Of Cannabis

Cannabis products include marijuana, hashish, and hashish oil.
THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) gets a user high, a larger THC content will produce a stronger high. Without THC you don't get high.
CBD (Cannabidiol) increases some of the effects of THC and decreases other effects of THC. High levels of THC and low levels of CBD contribute to a strong, clear headed, more energetic high.
Cannabis that has a high level of both THC and CBD will produce a strong head-stone that feels almost dreamlike. Cannabis that has low levels of THC and high levels of CBD produces more of a stoned feeling. The mind feels dull and the body feels tired.
CBN (Cannabinol) is produced as THC ages and breaks down, this process is known as oxidization. High levels of CBN tend to make the user feel messed up rather than high.
CBN levels can be kept to a minimum by storing cannabis products in a dark, cool, airtight environment. marijuanashould be dry prior to storage, and may have to be dried again after being stored somewhere that is humid.
THCV (Tetrahydrocannabivarin) is found primarily in strains of African and Asian cannabis. THCV increases the speed and intensity of THC effects, but also causes the high to end sooner. Weed that smells strong (prior to smoking) might indicate a high level of THCV.
CBC (Cannabichromene) is probably not psychoactive in pure form but is thought to interact with THC to enhance the high.
CBL (Cannabicyclol) is a degradative product like CBN. Light converts CBC to CBL.
If you are a grower, you can experiment with different strains of cannabis to produce the various qualities you seek. A medical user looking for something with sleep inducing properties might want to produce a crop that has high levels of CBD.
Another user looking for a more energetic high will want to grow a strain that has high levels of THC and low levels of CBD. In general, Cannabis sativa has lower levels of CBD and higher levels of THC. Cannabis indica has higher amounts of CBD and lower amounts of THC than sativa. See marijuana strains.

For a more scientific description, see below for an excerpt from marijuana growers guide by Mel Frank.
Cannabis is unique in many ways. Of all plants, it is the only genus known to produce chemical substances known as herbal cannabinoids. These cannabinoids are the psychoactive ingredients of marijuana; they are what get you high, buzzed, or stoned. By 1974, there were 37 naturally occurring cannabinoids that had been discovered.
There are 3 types of cannabinoids:
--- Herbal: occur naturally only in the cannabis plant
--- Endogenous: occur naturally in humans and other animals
--- Synthetic: cannabinoids produced in a lab
Most of the cannabinoids appear in very small amounts (less than .01 percent of total cannabinoids) and are not considered psychoactive, or else not important to the high. Many are simply homologues or analogues (similar structure or function) to the few major cannabinoids which are listed.
There are several numbering systems used for cannabinoids. The system used here is based on formal chemical rules for numbering pyran compounds (any of a class of organic compounds of the heterocyclic series in which five carbon atoms and one oxygen atom are present in a ring structure). Another common system is used more by Europeans and is based on a monoterpenoid system which is more useful considering the biogenesis of the compound.

Tetrahydrocannabinol - THC

Delta 9-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol - delta-9 THC is the main psychotomimetic (mindbending) ingredient of marijuana. Estimates state that 70 to 100 percent of the marijuana high results from the delta-9 THC present. It occurs in almost all cannabis in concentrations that vary from traces to about 95 percent of all the cannabinoids in the sample.
In very potent strains, carefully prepared marijuana can be 30 percent delta-9 THC by dry weight (seeds and stems removed from flowering buds). Buds are the popular name given to masses of female flowers that form distinct clusters.
Delta 8-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol - delta-8 THC is reported in low concentration, less than one percent of the delta-9 THC present. Its activity is slightly less than that of delta-9 THC. It may be an artefact of the extraction/analysis process. Almost everyone who uses the term THC, refers to delta-9 THC and delta-8 THC combined, as THC.

Cannabidiol - CBD

Cannabidiol - CBD also occurs in almost all strains. Concentration range from none, to about 95 percent of the total cannabinoids present. THC and CBD are the two most abundant naturally occurring cannabinoids. CBD is not psychotomimetic in the pure form, although it does have sedative, analgesic, and antibiotic properties.
In order for CBD to affect the high, THC must be present in quantities ordinarily psychoactive. CBD can contribute to the high by interacting with THC to potentiate (enhance) or antagonize (interfere or lessen) certain qualities of the high.
CBD appears to potentiate the depressant effects of THC and antagonize is excitatory effects. CBD also delays the onset of the high but can make it last considerably longer (as much as twice as long). The kind of grass that takes a while to come on but keeps coming on.
Opinions are conflicting as to whether it increases or decreases the intensity of the high, intensity and high being difficult to define. Terms such as knock-out or sleepy, dreamlike, or melancholic are often used to describe the high from grass with sizeable proportions of CBD and THC.
When only small amounts of THC are present with high proportions of CBD, the high is more of a buzz, and the mind feels dull and the body de-energized.

Cannabinol - CBN

Cannabinol - CBN is not produced by the plant per se. It is the degradation (oxidative) product of THC. Fresh samples of marijuana contain very little CBN but curing, poor storage, or processing such as when making hashish, can cause much of the THC to be oxidized to CBN. Pure forms of CBN have at most 10 percent of the psychoactivity of THC.
Like CBD, it is suspected of potentiating certain aspects of the high, although so far these effects appear to be slight. CBN seems to potentiate THC's disorienting qualities. One may feel more dizzy or drugged or generally messed up but not necessarily higher.
In fact, with a high proportion of CBN, the high may start well but feels as if it never quite reaches its peak, and when coming down one feels tired or sleepy. High CBN in homegrown grass is not desirable since it represents a loss of 90 percent of the psychoactivity of its precursor THC.

Tetrahydrocannabivarin - THCV

Tetrahydrocannabivarin - THCV or THV is the propyl homologue of THC. In the aromatic ring the usual five-carbon pentyl is replaced by a short three-carbon propyl chain. The propyl cannabinoids have so far been found in some strains originating from Southeast and Central Asia and parts of Africa.
In one study, THCV made up to 48.23 percent (Afghanistan strain) and 53.69 percent (South Africa) of the cannabinoids found. We've seen no reports on its activity in humans. From animal studies it appears to be much faster in onset and quicker to dissipate than THC. It may be the constituent of one or two toke grass, but its activity appears to be somewhat less than that of THC. Some people use the term THC to refer collectively to delta-9 THC, delta-8 THC, and THCV.
An interesting note is that people who have a prescription for Marinol (synthetic medical THC) may be tested for THCV. Marinol contains no THCV, if a person tests positive it means they have been using marijuana, or another cannabis product. This is usually sufficient grounds to terminate the prescription of a person who has signed a contract not to ingest any cannabis while taking Marinol.

Cannabichromene - CBC

Cannabichromene - CBC is another major cannabinoid, although it is found in smaller concentrations than CBD and THC. It was previously believed that is was a minor constituent, but more exacting analysis showed that the compound often reported as CBD may actually be CBC.
Relative to THC and CBD, its concentration in the plants is low, probably not exceeding 20 percent of total cannabinoids. CBC is believed not to be psychotomimetic in humans; however, its presence in plants is purportedly very potent has led to the suspicion that it may be interacting with THC to enhance the high.

Cannabicyclol - CBL

Cannabicyclol (CBL) is a degradative product like CBN. During extraction, light converts CBC to CBL. There are no reports on its activity in humans, and it is found in small amounts, if at all, in fresh plant material.

Cannabinoids And The High

The marijuana high is a complex experience. It involves a wide range of psychical, physical, and emotional responses. The high is a subjective experience based in the individual and one's personality, mood, disposition, and experience with the drug.
Given the person, the intensity of the high depends primarily on the amount of THC present in the marijuana. Delta-9 THC is the main ingredient of marijuana and must be present in sufficient quantities for a good marijuana high.
People who smoke grass that has very little cannabinoids other than delta-9 THC usually report that the high is very intense. Most people that don't smoke daily will feel something from a joint having delta-9 THC of 3 percent concentration to material.
Cannabis products having a THC concentration of 5-10 percent would be considered good, 10-25 percent would be considered very good, and over 25 percent would be excellent quality by daily users standards. In general, we use potency to mean the sum effects of the cannabinoids and the overall high induced.
marijuana is sometimes rated more potent than the content of delta-9 THC alone would suggest. It also elicits qualitatively different highs. The reasons for this have not been sorted out. Few clinical studies with known combinations of several cannabinoids have been undertaken with human subjects.
So far, different highs and possibly higher potency seem to be due to the interaction of delta-9 THC and other cannabinoids (THCV,CBD,CBN, and possibly CBC). Except for THCV, in the pure form, these other cannabinoids do not have much psychoactivity.
Another possibility for higher potency is that homologues of delta-9 THC with longer side chains at C-3 (and higher activity) might be found in certain marijuana strains.
Compounds with longer side chains have been made in laboratories and their activity is sometimes much higher, with estimates over 500 times that of natural delta-9 THC.
The possibility that there are non-cannabinoids that are psychoactive or interacting with the cannabinoids has not been investigated in detail. Non-cannabinoids with biological activity have been isolated from the plants, but only in very small quantities.
None are known to be psychotomimetic. However, they may contribute to the overall experience in non-mental ways, such as the stimulation of the appetite.
Different blends of cannabinoids account for the different qualities of intoxication produced by different strains of cannabis. The intensity of the high depends primarily on the amount of delta-9 THC present and on the method of ingestion.
A complex drug such as marijuana affects the mind and body in many ways. Sorting out what accounts for what response can become quite complex.



(taken from http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mj028.htm)
 
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00450610903258144
There have been many studies of thc degradation over time......
Besides that thca is a larger molecule. Once the carboxyl group is cleaved its roughly 90% of its original size

Definitely not as simple as 16 in and 16 out .. after 2 and a half years its lost over half its potency
thank you! very good article indeed, here's a diagram from the article:

Concentrations (% w/w) of total THC, neutral THC (THC), THC acid (THCA) and total CBN in cannabis resin samples during 4 years of storage at room temperature (20–22°C) with light exposure (a), room temperature without light exposure (b) and −20°C without light exposure (c). (d) Concentrations of total THC, CBN, CBD and CBG in cannabis resin samples stored at room temperature (20–22°C) with light exposure

 

|B3RNY|

Well-Known Member
No, I don't know if I read many of your posts before I replied; I could opnly make it 1 or 2 pages in, before I couldn't take it anymore. I simply cannot believe that this is even a question among any person(s) with reasonable experience growing cannabis... I mean really- quick-dried Vs. long cured flowers!? I literally 'laugh out loud' here. Your most recent post, is that of the degradation of cannabinoids, over time, in Cannabis resin slabs & extracts; resins/extracts are made primarily from flowers that have already been dried and cured (aside from finger hash, etc.) Still, the THC peaks at around 2-3 months. I understand, fully, the process of degradation/decarboxylation/etc. I meant that you should study up, if you believe that quick-dried cannabis is better, as good as, or even comparable to properly cured buds. I speak with factual knowledge AND ​first-hand experience.

Curing does not literally increase THC content, but the drying/curing of your buds IS what makes the THC in your buds psychoactive. Quick-dries are ok, if you just want to get a feel for the stuff (or have nothing else to smoke, etc.) but you're wasting potentially good things.. If you really got that high from a quick-dried joint, then you could probably do amazing things with a good cure. You don't have to cure for months; 2 weeks is a good starting point. Then again, whatever works for you-works for you. I was just under the impression that you were asking for advice, since in your original post you were; I could not care any less about arguing with somebody who is arguing the subject that people are trying to help him/her with.
 

|B3RNY|

Well-Known Member
I wasn't trying to be an asshole. You're on the right track, atleast you will go out of your way to find information, so that you can help yourself learn. Still, you will quickly learn that quick-dries are generally stamped as a waste of pot (& is usually an act of desperation.) You can get a 'little high' from the quick-dried pot but the easiest way to do something is not always the best way.
 

kristobal

Well-Known Member
Interresting tread, i think you just decarb your wet bud and it made you higher than usual..
Do you grow your own ? Is it all organic ?
here is some 19month old bubbakush trichs..as you can see some are still clear while some are very amber..sticky to the touch..the buds taste so smooth and the high is even better than it was before, more balance .
Quick drying buds cant compete with well cured, but what you eat can affect your high, like mangoes for exemple...i could try to explain it , but i found a link that seems to resume pretty well what i mean..
peace
 

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LinguaPeel

Well-Known Member
Fatty acid breakdown. Starch conversion, alcohol formation, all these curing processes produce flavorful, mouth coating, cotton mouth and munchie inducing, clambake magnifying components of the Cannabis resin, which stimulate endocannabinoid activity.

Hydro growers: curing is a myth. Hurry and sell wet weed with a cool name to kids

Bio growers: fresh weed is not finished weed. You cant even tell what strain it is, I'll drink beer until it's cured.

That's the reason for confusion in Cannabis growing. Low brix air bud with no esters, lactones, thiols etc, vs high brix sticky icky with tons of organic acids and starches breaking down over time (through oxygen, which simply evaporates standalone terpenes found I hydro to non existence) and enzymes( which simply do not exist in hydro as they have no associated acid chain to work on)
 
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