Pot breathalyzer quest ramps up as legalization looms

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
'There does seem a willingness to smoke and then drive,' says OPP officer
By Lucas Powers, CBC News Posted: May 22, 2016 5:00 AM ET Last Updated: May 22, 2016 5:00 AM ET


Cannabis has very different effects on different people, making it difficult to set firm limits on intake levels. (Steve Dipaola/Reuters)


You're standing on the side of the road, with traffic whizzing past.

The police officer who pulled you over suspects you may have smoked the reefer before departing for McDonald's.

But she's in a bit of a quagmire, because, really, there's no reliable way to know for sure. Are you high? If you are high, how high are you, really? Or really did you just want those little cheeseburgers (no ketchup and extra pickles)?

So she does the most logical thing: a field sobriety test. Tried and true. Walk the line. Touch the tip your nose. Can't do it? That's... suspicious. Maybe a night in the clink? Some Canadian cops also have roadside saliva swabs that can be used to test for the presence of drugs, but they are useless, legally speaking (for now.)

Now, had you been quaffing ales before the drive, a breathalyzer — controversial as they can be in terms of accuracy and reliability — would have cleared up the situation pretty quickly.

Of course, no such roadside device exists for cannabis and its psychotropic ingredient THC.

There's growing evidence that cannabis can impair driving by slowing reaction times and encouraging perplexing moves by drivers, like slowing way down and being reluctant to change lanes.

Doctors at Toronto's Centre for Addiction and Mental Health are doing the world's biggest-ever clinical study, asking exactly what causes this behaviour, and how dangerous it is.

'We've seen an increase'
Either way, an innovation war worth billions to the victor has been declared over developing a cannabis breathalyzer.

Legal recreational cannabis is on the way in Canada sometime next year, according to the federal government. Dispensaries are flowering up coast to coast. Canadians, at least a relatively large percentage of them, are smoking the devil's lettuce. There's money to be made.

Last month a UBC researcher claimed to have developed a $15 roadside cannabis breathalyzer that can also test for other drugs, but it's not ready for market. There's also the Vancouver-based Cannabix Technologies (with their slick video), founded by a former RCMP officer, which has raised millions to keep developing their pot breathalyzer.

Then there are the countless American initiatives.

Hard stats are difficult to come by, but according to police, there's been an increase in high drivers, at least in Ontario.

"There's just no doubt about it, we've seen an increase in the number of drug-impaired driving incidents over the past one or two years for sure," says Ontario Provincial Police Sgt. Kerry Schmidt.

"There does seem a willingness to smoke and then drive, but right now the law is the law and you can't do it."

'It's exceptionally complex'
From a cop's perspective, proving someone is high, especially on a small quantity of cannabis, could be more work than it might be worth (though they won't say that). Make the arrest, call in the Drug Recognition Expert officers to figure out if yes, this rabble-rouser is indeed high on cannabis and if they must leave behind a bodily sample.

'It's just not as simple as authorities want it to be.' — Jeffrey Raber, scientist
A breathalyzer could save a lot of trouble, though they're likely to be fraught with problems. Detecting alcohol is easy because you're looking for ethanol.

But tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD), those barely pronounceable molecules that are released during the partial combustion of cannabis, are more complicated. And those are just two of many cannabis derivatives.

"There's so much you could be looking for," says Jeffrey Raber, CEO of The Werc Shop in San Francisco, a laboratory that tests cannabis products. "It's exceptionally complex, there are so many components."

Raber is pretty skeptical about the possibility of developing a cannabis breathalyzer any time soon, especially one acceptable for use in criminal investigations and the courts.


UBC Engineering Prof. Mina Hoorfar, right, says the device she developed to detect marijuana only costs $15 to manufacture. (UBC-O)

"It's just not as simple as authorities want it to be. We'll probably move to automated cars before we figure out how to test for this the right way," he jokes.

There are all kinds of complicating factors. THC can stay in the blood for weeks, so how can you calculate if it played a role in a car crash? Everyone reacts differently to the substances in cannabis. What may send one person for a tour of Andromeda could be a casual smoke for another.

'It's too reductionist'
Of course the big question is: how high is too high to drive? All of the above complications apply, among others. Washington state and Colorado decided to adopt a threshold of five nanograms of THC per millilitre of blood as the legal impairment limit.

"Numbers made up out of thin air," says Raber. "It's too reductionist, it's too simple, and it's just not how cannabis works. There are all kinds of chemicals that are so variable and affect everyone differently."

That perspective is shared by Doug Beirness, an impaired-driving expert with the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse. While he believes a roadside test will eventually be commonplace, he says our mistake is trying to regulate cannabis like we do alcohol.

"These are very, very different drugs, and they affect people differently. As legalization approaches, we may need a whole new
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
please prove impairment .....please
Even with alcohol, the charge isn't impaired driving, they charge you with driving over .08. They are gonna pick a random number like 5 nano-grams and make anything over that an offense. Complete bullshit. The only effective test is the walk a straight line, count backwards from 100 routine. I'd still be over the limit years after I'm dead.
 

doingdishes

Well-Known Member
i tried on those glasses that make you seem like you're at .08 well i could not see staringht let alone walk in a straight line, i have had many beers etc and never has 1 or 2 done that much damage..haha
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
Liberals' pot plan looks for way to detect and deter drug-impaired driving
Test detects presence of THC but does not provide a level of intoxication

The man tasked with coming up with Canada's marijuana law has a proposal for dealing with one of the biggest issues facing legalization: prevention of driving under the influence of pot.

While police can conduct field sobriety tests if they suspect a driver is impaired by any substance, there is no established breathalyzer equivalent in roadside policing to easily detect and measure impairment when it comes to driving while high.

Liberal MP Bill Blair says oral fluids testing could be the roadside measure used by Canadian authorities to detect marijuana in a person's system.

"The kits are currently used in Europe," Blair told CBC News in an exclusive interview.

The oral fluids drug test is conducted with a small plastic stick. When the police officer suspects a driver has smoked marijuana, the officer would take the stick and swipe it over the driver's tongue. The saliva would then be mixed with the enzymes in the device. If a red line appears three minutes later it indicates there are drugs in the driver's system. The officer would then have the right to take the driver to the station for a full evidence test.


MP Bill Blair, Toronto's former top police officer, will be leading the legalization effort. (Adrian Wyld/Canadian Press)

"If a jurisdiction was to put in place a strict prohibition on using marijuana for example in driving, that could result, if there is the presence of marijuana metabolites, in the suspension of licence and seizing of a car. (That's) an immediate consequence which can have a very effective deterrent impact," said Blair.

The RCMP is in the midst of testing three different roadside devices and is about to expand the project.

"The RCMP and our other partners in this project are now looking into conducting additional testing of these devices in an operational setting to better determine whether these devices could be used by Canadian law enforcement to detect drug-impaired drivers," Sgt Harold Pfleiderer told CBC News in an email.

At least one advocate for the device argues it can be implemented immediately. Gregg Thomson's son, Stan, was killed along with four other young men in a horrific 1999 car crash east of Ottawa, in which the driver was under the influence of marijuana.

"We have an opportunity here, it's coming, we know it's part of the Liberal platform," Thomson told CBC. "Europe, Australia, already have roadside testing for drugs. We can learn from them, we don't have to reinvent the wheel, we can fast-track this."

How stoned is too stoned to drive?
Blair concedes the test does not measure the level of intoxication, it only detects the presence of THC, the main mind-altering ingredient found in the cannabis plant.

"In Canada we have not established a baseline of impairment. So we need to speak to the scientists and we need to look at the example in other jurisdictions," Blair said.


This oral fluids testing device will indicate if a driver has consumed pot within a few hours of the test. (CBC News)

Marc Paris, executive director of the Partnership for a Drug Free Canada, said the science around what constitutes impairment from marijuana isn't robust enough to withstand criminal trials.

"I think we're in for a rough ride," Paris said.

He said limits on intoxication must be set, similar to those with alcohol. But science can't predict what the level should be for marijuana, and U.S. states that have tried to impose limits have set levels that Paris calls arbitrary.

"A .08 (blood-alcohol) limit in alcohol is ... well-known and recognized and science-based evidence. That does not exist (for marijuana)."

The 24 U.S. states that have legalized recreational or medicinal pot use have set limits ranging from zero nanograms of THC per millilitre of blood to five.

Safety questions
In the U.S., the American Automobile Association Foundation for Traffic Safety is concerned about using random legal limits for drug driving to determine whether a driver is impaired.


Legislation for the decriminalization of marijuana in Canada is expected in spring 2017. How to deal with drugs and driving is just one of the questions Liberals will have to consider. (Jim Young/Reuters)

According to the foundation, "Limits for marijuana and driving are arbitrary and unsupported by science, which could result in unsafe motorists going free and others being wrongfully convicted for impaired driving."

The association reports seeing an increase in fatal crashes among drivers in Washington since the state legalized the drug in 2012.

"The percentage of drivers involved in fatal crashes who recently used marijuana more than doubled from eight to 17 per cent between 2013 and 2014," AAA research shows.

The Liberal government has promised to bring legislation forward for the legalization of marijuana by spring 2017.
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
just a lot of talk folks..it;ll be YEARS before we see one of these things working to where it MAY hold up in court in very extreme circumstances! !! (:
 

The Hippy

Well-Known Member
It the assholes who once jailed us simply finding a new way to jail us. It the same crap and attitude we have been fighting since the 60's.
And of course it's going to be bad for us as usual...look what Ex-nazi is in charge. Bill blair having ANYTHING to do with designing new rules around legalization is Ludacris thinking.
It's a new WITCH HUNT ...you'll see.
Look what he is already trying to do.

It's all they have left. to show all the MJ use is resulting in tragedy for the children and families.

Don't believe a word this ass has to say...he more biased than anyone I can think of.
 

doingdishes

Well-Known Member
i am VERY curious as to how they determine "impairment"
booze stays for hours but with MJ (in my experience) you can screw around for 30-60 minutes (in some cases by the time they hand you the stick) and you're no longer impaired...if you ever really were.
i find the effects wear off pretty fast
 

jafro daweedhound

Well-Known Member
the way they will find the limit for impairment is one of two possible ways;

1 - by detecting the degree of impairment at that exact time as scientifically determined to be uniformly correct.
or
2 - by a random number that politicians can get some traction with come election time. Something that seems politically correct in a controlling kinda way, but with no other quantifiable meaning.

Well because #1 doesn't exist.... that leaves us with #2. Well bill, did I guess right ???
 
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