Organic mix issues

kratos015

Well-Known Member
I read your post about watering and how it can really effect your soil. Made me really wonder if that's my problem. I really don't think it is, but maybe. I've quit watering them for 5 days until they were bone dry and wilting a little, whichbdidnt help any, and ive ttied waterong more frequently which made things significantly worse. Right now I'm watering about a half a gallon every 3 days.
Honestly man I feel this is totally it. I'm gonna wait until this current grow I'm going through is finished to be absolutely certain, but the Chapin sprayer I've been using has been absolutely game changing for me. I've had my best success rate with germination, 90% germination rate with direct sow which is a record for me. All I did was moisten the soil after I put it into the pots, then direct sowed my seeds into the pots. Over the next week I used my Chapin to spray the top of the soil and keep the seeds moist. Over 90% of them turned into seedlings. Furthermore, I've had zero problems up until this point and simply don't anticipate any of them. The rate at which I'm seeing growth has me convinced that my watering has been incorrect this entire time.

Having a pump sprayer is a new thing for me at this point in time, I've noticed immediate results since switching to a pump sprayer to a hose. The local hardware store had a pump sprayer and it did the job, but it's made of junk and didn't last more than a week. I recommend the Chapin because it's lasted me the longest out of all the sprayers I've got thus far, suppose there's a reason the organic gurus over at grasscity recommend it so much.

I've been doing organics for the last 3 years or so now and only feel I'm just starting to actually get a grasp on it slightly. I've always experienced symptoms of deficiency and even toxicity and took what I felt were the necessary measures only to be severely disappointed.

Truth be told, I've had this thought for a while but doubted myself because I've never considered myself the most experienced. However, after my last grow experiencing the same issues I started thinking outloud and had the pleasure of greasemonkey chiming in on my thoughts. He too emphasized the importance of good watering practices/technique and I grabbed myself a pump sprayer to confirm this and am amazed thus far with my results.

If you've tried everything else and are having doubts about your watering being optimal, I recommend giving it a shot for sure.
 

Grower899

Well-Known Member
Honestly man I feel this is totally it. I'm gonna wait until this current grow I'm going through is finished to be absolutely certain, but the Chapin sprayer I've been using has been absolutely game changing for me. I've had my best success rate with germination, 90% germination rate with direct sow which is a record for me. All I did was moisten the soil after I put it into the pots, then direct sowed my seeds into the pots. Over the next week I used my Chapin to spray the top of the soil and keep the seeds moist. Over 90% of them turned into seedlings. Furthermore, I've had zero problems up until this point and simply don't anticipate any of them. The rate at which I'm seeing growth has me convinced that my watering has been incorrect this entire time.

Having a pump sprayer is a new thing for me at this point in time, I've noticed immediate results since switching to a pump sprayer to a hose. The local hardware store had a pump sprayer and it did the job, but it's made of junk and didn't last more than a week. I recommend the Chapin because it's lasted me the longest out of all the sprayers I've got thus far, suppose there's a reason the organic gurus over at grasscity recommend it so much.

I've been doing organics for the last 3 years or so now and only feel I'm just starting to actually get a grasp on it slightly. I've always experienced symptoms of deficiency and even toxicity and took what I felt were the necessary measures only to be severely disappointed.

Truth be told, I've had this thought for a while but doubted myself because I've never considered myself the most experienced. However, after my last grow experiencing the same issues I started thinking outloud and had the pleasure of greasemonkey chiming in on my thoughts. He too emphasized the importance of good watering practices/technique and I grabbed myself a pump sprayer to confirm this and am amazed thus far with my results.

If you've tried everything else and are having doubts about your watering being optimal, I recommend giving it a shot for sure.

I do doubt my watering but idk if i have reasonable cause, lol. Just not sure what my problem is. I've got a run going now with the fertilizer spikes, gonna see how that one does and go from there. Right now everything in my veg tent has been switched to coco, just works 10x better for me right now. I know im at fault so I'm gonna keep an organic plant around until I get it right then I'll switch back over.

I'll more than likely invest in one of those sprayers anyway as I'm using a.5 gal regular watering can right now.
 

Grower899

Well-Known Member
Thats a bud off of the gdp I harvested at 10.5 weeks. It was decent smoke but yield was not there what so ever. Didn't even weigh it.

Only got purple leaves on this one. Think it woulda got a good bit more purple if it woulda had proper nutrition. Small bits of bud inside were purple but not much.
 

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kratos015

Well-Known Member
I do doubt my watering but idk if i have reasonable cause, lol. Just not sure what my problem is. I've got a run going now with the fertilizer spikes, gonna see how that one does and go from there. Right now everything in my veg tent has been switched to coco, just works 10x better for me right now. I know im at fault so I'm gonna keep an organic plant around until I get it right then I'll switch back over.

I'll more than likely invest in one of those sprayers anyway as I'm using a.5 gal regular watering can right now.
The fact that you're experiencing better results with coco as opposed to a peat based living organic soil tells me there is an issue with the watering for sure.

Much like you, my yields too suffered from my last grow. I did make some mistakes that hurt my yield, but ultimately I feel my watering was the main issue for sure. My 25g pots barely got rootbound where as my 2g pots were so rootbound you could toss it through a damn windshield it was so freaking rootbound. My 25g pots didn't do nearly as well as my 2g pots were and my thinking is that it's a lot harder to over/under water a plant that is 100% rootbound.

If the plant is 100% rootbound then that entire mass of roots will absorb a good amount of water and the rest will likely run off and drain out over time. Conversely, if the plant is 25-50% rootbound then watering becomes more tricky. I was stupid and would give my plants the same amount of water whether they were rootbound or not and in the non-rootbound pots this caused me some issues. Same issues as you in fact, N and P "deficiencies" that were never solved with Fish Hydrolysate. Upon reflection my issue wasn't a deficiency, but nutrient lock out from soil that became much too acidic due to overwatering. The overwatering was a combination of me actually overwatering in conjunction with an inadequate amount of drainage/aeration due to not having enough perlite and/or too much compost and EWC.

I was an absolute idiot with my watering up until recently and sadly didn't realize it even after years of growing. I mean, it's easy to dismiss the watering being an issue because "it's so basic, how can you fuck it up?" well, I thought that for over 5 years and only just now started actually getting better yields and all I changed was how I watered.

Lets consider a 10 gallon pot for an example. A 10 gallon root mass will require more water than a freshly transplanted 1 gallon root mass. Peat moss has similar water retention properties to coco, but peat isn't as porous as coco. You can get away without adding perlite to coco, but with peat moss proper drainage is absolutely mandatory.. especially when we consider how acidic peat moss can naturally be without a proper amount of liming/pH buffering agent. Everything that I've ever read about watering always says "water until 5-10% runoff" but these articles never specify the fact that should only be done assuming your pot at least 90% root bound. If you "water until runoff" in a 10 gallon pot with a 1 gallon root ball there will be issues in an organic soil because peat has incredible water retention as does compost. In a 1:1:1 soil ratio of peat/drainage/compost that means that the mix has 66% water retention and 33% drainage.. meaning that if you water until runoff in a non-root bound pot then a decent amount of water will still be in your peat and compost.. making it incredibly easy to overwater. And with over-watering comes root rot and an acidic pH, both of which are absolutely disastrous for yields.

As for why you're having success with coco so much? Well, the reason coco is so incredible is because of it's properties. Coco is interesting, it has incredible water retention properties but it is also equally porous.. meaning it's pretty difficult to ever over or under water with coco. The texture and properties of coco essentially make watering fool proof, in fact coco is literally like a sponge. The fact you mention having incredible results with coco as opposed to your living organic soil tells me the issue is in fact with watering properly, much like what I was experiencing.

When I would use Sub's Supersoil recipe, I wouldn't use the recommended 8 bags of roots organic. Instead, I used 3-4 bags of roots organic and supplemented with coco. The absolute best results I've had with organics was when I used a coco coir based supersoil. I've considered switching from peat to coco again, but peat is easier for me to get my hands on. The reason that peat is used instead of coco is because peat moss has better CEC. So while coco is foolproof and easier, peat moss is capable of producing much better results once mastered. You may find the article below to be an interesting read.

https://www.kisorganics.com/blogs/news/99806785-peat-vs-coco

Peat moss has a superior C:N ratio and a superior CEC. Peat also isn't sterile like coco is, so peat moss will actually contain trace amounts of microbes and trace amounts of various elements/nutrients as well.

The problem with peat moss? It isn't a sponge like coco, meaning that watering essentially becomes an art rather than something basic. Over and underwatering coco is difficult is not impossible.. however peat moss needs to be kept evenly moist, constantly. Peat moss is hydrophobic where as coco is not, so if the peat moss gets too dry you'll have a lot of dry spots in your soil and it will become incredibly difficult to properly water once that happens. Peat moss is very unforgiving, if you mess up on watering bad enough with peat moss then it's very hard to revert the damage once it's been done.

I recommend you go with the plan you mentioned in your recent post. Stick to coco since it's giving you the results you're happy with, living organics is amazing but it's quite the learning curve for sure. Been growing in living organic soil and learning about it since Sub's recipe was first hitting the scene (2012ish I think?) and don't think I could ever become an expert on living organics in multiple life times let alone just one xD

Perhaps next time, run coco instead of peat moss. You won't need as much perlite, as the coco is capable of draining itself. However perlite is still required to aerate the medium and provide it (and our microbes) with much needed oxygen.

As for why I feel like the pump sprayer is best, it's mainly because of the flow of water as well as the fact that it's more like a fine mist as opposed to a stream/shower. You essentially spray the top layer of your soil and around the root mass and that's it. I only have seedlings between 4-8 inches tall and I water with my sprayer twice a day, when the lights are about to go off and a few hours after the lights come on. The sprayer is awesome because it sprays a nice fine mist that will moisten the top few inches of your medium without overwatering the bottom part of your medium. The water in the top layer will slowly drip down to the bottom layer. I'm not just noticing incredible results with my medical cannabis plants using the pump sprayer, I've been using it for my veggie garden as well and I'm getting similar results.

I apologize for yet another lengthy response. I just feel that I've made some rather bold claims and do my best to cite resources to back up said claims. Hope I was able to help in some way and that you're able to get your issues resolved. Living organic soil is definitely a learning curve but it is beyond worth it as the quality I've been getting from living organics is just beyond incredible.
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Proper drainage is a first order must. Good drainage covers a multitude of sins because overwatering will send your Grow to hell. And it is very easy to overwater a too small plant in a too big pot.
 
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