Organic Growing with worms

Just wanted to share how I have been growing for a little while now. The cycle is great and the plants have reaped the benefits.
I run a small worm composting bin, 18 gallons, the worms eat my garden scraps and in return they give me fresh worm castings to feed the plants. Then I use a tea brewer to make my castings into worm tea, the worm tea is used to water the plants and I also spray it directly onto the leaves to ward off all kinds of pests and diseases. When potting I use 20% worm castings 80% roots organics soil mix. My plants grow faster and are healthier. The clones and seedlings grow 50% faster and stronger with the castings then without. I'm loving the process, plus I don't have any stinky pot in my trash cans!
I got my compost bin, worms, and tea brewer for under $100 from www.goworms.com
I posted a picture and a pic of my current plant that I am breeding, she is a zero gravity that is under 300 watts and run on 12/12 light cycle from seed in a 5 gallon pot. Growth is insane for a tiny light like this.

Greenhouse Organics said:

Just wanted to share how I have been growing for a little while now. The cycle is great and the plants have reaped the benefits.
I run a small worm composting bin, 18 gallons, the worms eat my garden scraps and in return they give me fresh worm castings to feed the plants. Then I use a tea brewer to make my castings into worm tea, the worm tea is used to water the plants and I also spray it directly onto the leaves to ward off all kinds of pests and diseases. When potting I use 20% worm castings 80% roots organics soil mix. My plants grow faster and are healthier. The clones and seedlings grow 50% faster and stronger with the castings then without. I'm loving the process, plus I don't have any stinky pot in my trash cans!
I got my compost bin, worms, and tea brewer for under $100 from www.goworms.com
I posted a picture and a pic of my current plant that I am breeding, she is a zero gravity that is under 300 watts and run on 12/12 light cycle from seed in a 5 gallon pot. Growth is insane for a tiny light like this.

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Welcome to RIU! It looks like you are doing much better than a majority of New memebers.

I'm not into Brewers, ACT, etc but that all sounds great!

Looks pretty good from seed! I like the branching! Red wigglers have a home in all my pots including my flowering plants.

Just got my red wigglers in. Excited to see the benefits. Nice lady!

SPLFreak808 said:

Looks pretty good from seed! I like the branching! Red wigglers have a home in all my pots including my flowering plants.

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I have been thinking of this also and shortcutting the worm bin -- how do you keep them happy, as I understand they populate the top layers of the soil?
Do you keep it all mulched up?

calliandra said:

I have been thinking of this also and shortcutting the worm bin -- how do you keep them happy, as I understand they populate the top layers of the soil?
Do you keep it all mulched up?

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Depends on the species of worm, 3 different species occupy different zones. Epegeic are surface worms, Endogeic are midlevel, and Aneic are the deep burrow kind.

So I would focus on the typical red wiggler worm. Eisenia fetida, are epegeic, so perhaps a top mulch of cardboard, compost and trim could keep them happy, they seem to really like cardboard, and i've observed that typical wormfarm packs have shredded cardboard in it. Cannabis isn't a deep rooting plant so this should work well together.

I think you have a great concept. The benefits of live worms in the pot would not only provide a constant flow of beneficial microbes, but also fight problems like soil compaction, and would constantly be conditioning the soil with the shredding and burrowing action.

calliandra said:

I have been thinking of this also and shortcutting the worm bin -- how do you keep them happy, as I understand they populate the top layers of the soil?
Do you keep it all mulched up?

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you could, but the thing you'd be missing out on is the AACT, and the ability to topdress with it, build more soil, etc.
In other words the majority of us use our bins to be able to re-amend/build our own soils, and the other thing is for compost teas. Having them in your soil, which don't misread me, because my containers are LOADED with worms, but we don't use the worms for that really, we use them to make concentrated magical fresh humus rich castings.. which once you make a soil with your own, you'll see what I mean.

calliandra said:

I have been thinking of this also and shortcutting the worm bin -- how do you keep them happy, as I understand they populate the top layers of the soil?
Do you keep it all mulched up?

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I use the epigeic type of worms, they stay near the top and you cant use too much because they will reproduce and start to cause problems in small pots. When needed, ill top water raw compost style banana peels,mangos,dead leaves,grinded coconut ect, the scraps are stored in a seperate organic matter bin(strictly scraps no worms) that i pick from, The pot cannot get completly dry no matter what or they will go nuts. I've also had issues with my old ass recycled soil starting to compact on itself and the wigglers help a bit with it. Funny, i never intended to use worms but they somehow traveled from my compost bin to most of my flowering pots that where getting cooked outside. I said fuck it and transplanted into them anyway and so far i haven't had any problems yet.

A seperate compost bin is less work though imo, easier to use tea's and the plants respond quicker that way

calliandra said:

I have been thinking of this also and shortcutting the worm bin -- how do you keep them happy, as I understand they populate the top layers of the soil?
Do you keep it all mulched up?

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if you are intimidated by the cost and pain of the setup.
Just go get a 25 gallon smartpot, fill it a quarter full with your old soil, and order some reds online, or get some reds from bait store, they are like rats, they reproduce like crazy.
Then add a 4 to 5 inch layer of leaves or wet cardboard on top of them.
cheap and easy.
I made mine literally free.
used an old tomato smart pot, old soil, my brother brought me a handful of worms from his bin, and presto!
You have a wormbin

SPLFreak808 said:

A seperate compost bin is less work though imo, easier to use tea's and the plants respond quicker that way

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I agree with you, its a microbe/fungi free for all in a pile.. Not to say you should exclude worms from your dirt.. just saying that the decay of the material could put pathogens next to the plant, like the mold for example.

The teas are a great option, I've been brewing compost tea, and looking at it in a microscope it has a very dense microbe concentration, I'll look at EWC under the microscope, but I would expect the same thing. EWC seems to have advantages because of the flora of the worms gut, my understanding is that worms destroy pathogenic material like E coli... or so I've been told.

GrowerGoneWild said:

I agree with you, its a microbe/fungi free for all in a pile.. Not to say you should exclude worms from your dirt.. just saying that the decay of the material could put pathogens next to the plant, like the mold for example.

The teas are a great option, I've been brewing compost tea, and looking at it in a microscope it has a very dense microbe concentration, I'll look at EWC under the microscope, but I would expect the same thing. EWC seems to have advantages because of the flora of the worms gut, my understanding is that worms destroy pathogenic material like E coli... or so I've been told.

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Yeah thay scared me at first but i still have yet to get mold and fungi indoor after i stopped using cow manure and ive been pushing it for years at 65-80% rh lol. In regards to e.coli, wouldn't my organic material need to get contaminated from e.coli first before spreading? I use my own garden scraps in sunny hawaii, if i ever get e.coli from my garden or tap water, then im more at risk then my plants, the outdoor worm bin will be guaranteed infected alpng with the entire garden aswell as my indoor flowering pots.

SPLFreak808 said:

Yeah thay scared me at first but i still have yet to get mold and fungi indoor after i stopped using cow manure and ive been pushing it for years at 65-80% rh lol. In regards to e.coli, wouldn't my organic material need to get contaminated from e.coli first before spreading? I use my own garden scraps in sunny hawaii, if i ever get e.coli from my garden or tap water, then im more at risk then my plants, the outdoor worm bin will be guaranteed infected alpng with the entire garden aswell as my indoor flowering pots.

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Well, let me clarify, a organic hydro lettuce farmer at alaska natural organics and I had one of those long discussions.. And we were talking about he was using worms in his bins for his nutrient, and compost teas for lettuce production. We were discussing pile material, and he mentioned manures in the pile and explained to me that E. Coli were destroyed by the worms. E. Coli is everywhere.. Its the bad forms of it that make toxins is what makes us sick. I think we were thinking that without worms, the pile isn't completely processed.

We have been following Dr Elaine Ingham and Jeff Lowenfells closely. He told me he had formal instruction from Dr Elaine.. shes done some amazing work with the soil food web

GrowerGoneWild said:

Well, let me clarify, a organic hydro lettuce farmer at alaska natural organics and I had one of those long discussions.. And we were talking about he was using worms in his bins for his nutrient, and compost teas for lettuce production. We were discussing pile material, and he mentioned manures in the pile and explained to me that E. Coli were destroyed by the worms. E. Coli is everywhere.. Its the bad forms of it that make toxins is what makes us sick. I think we were thinking that without worms, the pile isn't completely processed.

We have been following Dr Elaine Ingham and Jeff Lowenfells closely. He told me he had formal instruction from Dr Elaine.. shes done some amazing work with the soil food web

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Yeah im aware of a few select kidney fucker e.coli bact ,the rest is near harmless somewhat i think.
Ahhh wow, didn't know the worms could get rid of them!

GrowerGoneWild said:

Well, let me clarify, a organic hydro lettuce farmer at alaska natural organics and I had one of those long discussions.. And we were talking about he was using worms in his bins for his nutrient, and compost teas for lettuce production. We were discussing pile material, and he mentioned manures in the pile and explained to me that E. Coli were destroyed by the worms. E. Coli is everywhere.. Its the bad forms of it that make toxins is what makes us sick. I think we were thinking that without worms, the pile isn't completely processed.

We have been following Dr Elaine Ingham and Jeff Lowenfells closely. He told me he had formal instruction from Dr Elaine.. shes done some amazing work with the soil food web

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Yeah I just stumbled over Ingham - amazing woman, my new hero! - and am seriously considering doing her courses as I am currently switching careers into gardening too (just need to figure out the "funding" for it haha)!

As I understand it, our task is to get the soil food web so chock full of beneficials they suppress the malfactors - so yeah, e.coli - or other damaging microorganisms - may be around but just in amounts that do not cause problems.

What I find most fascinating is how plants actually "grow" their ideal microbial environment themselves by means of the exudates they feed them with. No wonder no-tills get better over time, as successive plantings will be into a soil that already has greater amounts of those microbes a cannabis plant likes most! (and what a relief, not to have to keep track of the thousands of different types of bacteria and fungi myself )

Thanks guys for sharing your thoughts and experiences!
The way it is coming together in my mind at the moment is to have worms in our pots as part of the soil ecosystem (aeration, microbial population control, and yes, also processing of new organic material as it comes in) and the worm bin to pimp up microbial populations every now and then. Just because pot space in small growing environments is restricted.

Thanks @GrowerGoneWild for bringing up the distinction of different worm types - possibly the ideal setup would contain all those types of worms? - so all parts of the pot are getting plowed
From what I've been reading, adding the epigeic types in serious amounts would depend on whether, indeed, we can (or want to) keep the topsoil really well mulched up and damp all the time.
Actually I have been doing this on my current grow, and the only problems I've had is the fungus gnats, who were in the compost mix I added to the soil and are loving the environment and showing it by exploding populations despite the addition of SF nematodes lol

calliandra said:

Yeah I just stumbled over Ingham - amazing woman, my new hero! - and am seriously considering doing her courses as I am currently switching careers into gardening too (just need to figure out the "funding" for it haha)!

As I understand it, our task is to get the soil food web so chock full of beneficials they suppress the malfactors - so yeah, e.coli - or other damaging microorganisms - may be around but just in amounts that do not cause problems.

What I find most fascinating is how plants actually "grow" their ideal microbial environment themselves by means of the exudates they feed them with. No wonder no-tills get better over time, as successive plantings will be into a soil that already has greater amounts of those microbes a cannabis plant likes most! (and what a relief, not to have to keep track of the thousands of different types of bacteria and fungi myself )

Thanks guys for sharing your thoughts and experiences!
The way it is coming together in my mind at the moment is to have worms in our pots as part of the soil ecosystem (aeration, microbial population control, and yes, also processing of new organic material as it comes in) and the worm bin to pimp up microbial populations every now and then. Just because pot space in small growing environments is restricted.

Thanks @GrowerGoneWild for bringing up the distinction of different worm types - possibly the ideal setup would contain all those types of worms? - so all parts of the pot are getting plowed
From what I've been reading, adding the epigeic types in serious amounts would depend on whether, indeed, we can (or want to) keep the topsoil really well mulched up and damp all the time.
Actually I have been doing this on my current grow, and the only problems I've had is the fungus gnats, who were in the compost mix I added to the soil and are loving the environment and showing it by exploding populations despite the addition of SF nematodes lol

Click to expand...

Im looking at the classes too, I just have too many projects at the moment. I have some classes with Colorado State University gardening program, after I complete those I'll look at Dr Ingham's classes. I'll pass the info along.

I think a point to remember is that most microbes are not pathogenic. A healthy compost pile that includes a diverse set of critters working on processing it is less likely to be pathogenic.

I am still working on the specifics on what is the ideal zone that worms would work in. But because of the relatively small container size we work in, the composting nature of red wiggler, and shallow rooting nature of cannabis, I think they would be the ideal worm for cannabis farming. I'm not opposed to the introduction of different feeding worms like the aneic types and its deeper burrowing capacity, So I'm trying to see what combo or species is best suited to cannabis. More research is needed.

In a way I do understand the advantages of teas its an easy way to deliver concentrated nutrition and microbes.. But in a larger field application, I would prefer a large population of worms. For example I work with 30 gallon smart pots. I think that will give enough room for worms to have benefits.

Fungus gnats.. .. Ugh.. why did you have to mention those things. I would make sure you have control over those things before you consider mulching for your worms. I almost prefer to throw out the soil and work again. I've had to resort to multiple controls for FG. Anybody that just suggests gnatrol should be slapped, it doesn't work by itself. The only thing I think works is Azatrol/Gnatrol/pyrytherm along with sticky cards and letting top layers dry out, you have to hit them hard in the larve stage.

GrowerGoneWild said:

Im looking at the classes too, I just have too many projects at the moment. I have some classes with Colorado State University gardening program, after I complete those I'll look at Dr Ingham's classes. I'll pass the info along.

I think a point to remember is that most microbes are not pathogenic. A healthy compost pile that includes a diverse set of critters working on processing it is less likely to be pathogenic.

I am still working on the specifics on what is the ideal zone that worms would work in. But because of the relatively small container size we work in, the composting nature of red wiggler, and shallow rooting nature of cannabis, I think they would be the ideal worm for cannabis farming. I'm not opposed to the introduction of different feeding worms like the aneic types and its deeper burrowing capacity, So I'm trying to see what combo or species is best suited to cannabis. More research is needed.

In a way I do understand the advantages of teas its an easy way to deliver concentrated nutrition and microbes.. But in a larger field application, I would prefer a large population of worms. For example I work with 30 gallon smart pots. I think that will give enough room for worms to have benefits.

Fungus gnats.. .. Ugh.. why did you have to mention those things. I would make sure you have control over those things before you consider mulching for your worms. I almost prefer to throw out the soil and work again. I've had to resort to multiple controls for FG. Anybody that just suggests gnatrol should be slapped, it doesn't work by itself. The only thing I think works is Azatrol/Gnatrol/pyrytherm along with sticky cards and letting top layers dry out, you have to hit them hard in the larve stage.

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Oh man! I just looked into the CSU program and it's soooo cool!
Firstly, it looks application-focused - nothing against science, but do I really need all the overhead beyond good working knowledge to improve a soil? If I chose the further education route on offer in Austria, I'd first have to become a theoretical scientist and then learn to apply all that - whilst CSU seems to go there directly - and covering a well-rounded range of topics too
Plus the modularity of the program allows a person to go through it step by step, time allowing - and focusing exactly on those aspects that are relevant to one's own practice.
Not to speak of the affordability, which ironically (so I understand) is only possible due to the University's financial backup from Monsanto? lmao

Too bad it's only conditionally for me, as lots of the courses (weeds, insects...) highlight local conditions (as they should!), part of which will be moot for Central Europe or require tedious translation (as in search for similar local organisms with comparable functions) at least.
So, lucky you!

I agree the "holy grail" of any system would be to have it be self-sustainably cycling
Then come in limitations, such as our indoor conditions, we need to work around.
Indeed, which worms can contribute significantly to the ecosystem in which sized pot?
If the answer is a negative, then we may work around with additions from a separate worm farm (in whatever form), thus replacing the part of the system that cannot function of itself under our conditions with the closest we can get to the natural process.
This is also the way I see teas btw.

Sorry for bringing the fungus gnats to your mind haha!
Actually, I have thought of letting my no-till rest and get the soil clean of them before doing the next grow in it.
If in future I only amend with mulch and my own worm castings, (which I'd start from scratch after I get rid of the bin I am worm-sitting at the mo and which is badly infested - I suspect they've been migrating throughout my flat ) the system would be - and stay! - clear of them

calliandra said:

Oh man! I just looked into the CSU program and it's soooo cool!
Firstly, it looks application-focused - nothing against science, but do I really need all the overhead beyond good working knowledge to improve a soil? If I chose the further education route on offer in Austria, I'd first have to become a theoretical scientist and then learn to apply all that - whilst CSU seems to go there directly - and covering a well-rounded range of topics too
Plus the modularity of the program allows a person to go through it step by step, time allowing - and focusing exactly on those aspects that are relevant to one's own practice.
Not to speak of the affordability, which ironically (so I understand) is only possible due to the University's financial backup from Monsanto? lmao

Too bad it's only conditionally for me, as lots of the courses (weeds, insects...) highlight local conditions (as they should!), part of which will be moot for Central Europe or require tedious translation (as in search for similar local organisms with comparable functions) at least.
So, lucky you!

I agree the "holy grail" of any system would be to have it be self-sustainably cycling
Then come in limitations, such as our indoor conditions, we need to work around.
Indeed, which worms can contribute significantly to the ecosystem in which sized pot?
If the answer is a negative, then we may work around with additions from a separate worm farm (in whatever form), thus replacing the part of the system that cannot function of itself under our conditions with the closest we can get to the natural process.
This is also the way I see teas btw.

Sorry for bringing the fungus gnats to your mind haha!
Actually, I have thought of letting my no-till rest and get the soil clean of them before doing the next grow in it.
If in future I only amend with mulch and my own worm castings, (which I'd start from scratch after I get rid of the bin I am worm-sitting at the mo and which is badly infested - I suspect they've been migrating throughout my flat ) the system would be - and stay! - clear of them

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I just try to stuff as much into my little brain as possible. It makes for a better understanding of things. As much as I like cannabis I realize its a tiny slice of the agriculture world. I think there is more to be gained from learning gardening and farming in general to to be solely focused on cannabis.
So many interesting plants in the world..

Yeah I'm diggin the program so far.. I'm making an effort not to mention Cannabis tho. I didn't know Monsanto had anything to do with CSU.. well I haven't noticed any bias for Monsanto. CSU does focus on Colorado environments but thats ok for me, I live in a similar climate.

Like I said before I'm kinda working with optimum pot size for worms. Other users have mentioned the benefits of compost/ewc teas, and I totally understand their viewpoint, condensing say an extract of 100LB of pile material into a tea is so easy. I have a few hundred gallons of soil thats a bit of an expense so I'm looking at worms to take care of the soil. Seems fair to me, I give them a home and stuff to eat.. they maintain my soil. Sometimes space is at a premium so thats why I was looking at worms.

Bummer about the FG.. I hate pouring any pesticide, it just bothers me, You could sanitize the soil with heat.. I just hate FG because they do damage roots of young plants.. No problem mentioning them, its just frustrating at times.. GRrrrRRRrrr...

Find some clean soil.. start again.. Thats how I've been getting rid of them.

GrowerGoneWild said:

Yeah I'm diggin the program so far.. I'm making an effort not to mention Cannabis tho. I didn't know Monsanto had anything to do with CSU.. well I haven't noticed any bias for Monsanto. CSU does focus on Colorado environments but thats ok for me, I live in a similar climate.

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Cool it's not noticeable in the course contents -- I only know this because Ingham mentioned leaving CSU because of it

Ooo sorry my bad -- scratch that! - it was actually Oregon State U where she ran into problems