Operation Red Wings - What Would You Have Done?

What would you do with the goat herders?

  • Kill them, to ensure they don't give away your position

    Votes: 4 80.0%

  • Release them, and hope they don't give away your position

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • Total voters
    5
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Red_Wings

I just got done rading about this, pretty interesting. Basically, it was an operation on June 28, 2005, a four man Navy SEAL team was sent in, led by LT Michael P. Murphy, consisting of petty officers Mathew Axelson, Danny Dietz, and Marcus Luttrell, to capture or kill local Taliban leader Ahmad Shah. They arrive before dawn, set up, realize their location isn't good for the attack, scope a new one and are discovered by a few goat herders. Now, this is where the influence of the thread comes in, if you put yourself in LT Murphy's position, what would you do. You have no rope to subdue the goat herders, you essentially have to kill them and face the consequences later or let them go and hope they don't notify the Taliban of your position, resulting in a failed operation and possibly the deaths of you and your men.

So what would you do?

The messed up part is how this particular story ended... The guy did the right thing (morally) but ended up indirectly killing 19 people..

The decisions we make...
 
sync0s

sync0s

Well-Known Member
Special operations soldiers have the ability to abort any mission once their cover is blown. They attempted to abort, but their radio communications were faulty. If you read, only after the battle had already claimed the lives of the rest of his team, he decides to use his (satellite) cell phone to call for emergency extraction. They should have relocated their position or immediately moved for the exfil point and made the call. Their indecisiveness lead to their demise.

It's never okay to kill unarmed civilian goat herders. If you know they are going to tell, you leave. At least try to alter your position so that you can trap the enemies who come looking for you.

Based on that, neither of your two options for the poll reflect my opinion at all.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
sync0s said:
Special operations soldiers have the ability to abort any mission once their cover is blown. They attempted to abort, but their radio communications were faulty. If you read, only after the battle had already claimed the lives of the rest of his team, he decides to use his (satellite) cell phone to call for emergency extraction. They should have relocated their position or immediately moved for the exfil point and made the call. Their indecisiveness lead to their demise.

It's never okay to kill unarmed civilian goat herders. If you know they are going to tell, you leave. At least try to alter your position so that you can trap the enemies who come looking for you.

Based on that, neither of your two options for the poll reflect my opinion at all.
Click to expand...
Fuckin' impressed with that answer. That's exactly what I thought I would do in the same situation. Leave, call for extraction and live to fight another day. Everyone lives, you don't capture the enemy (story said he'd been moved twice before, so we try again, big deal) but you survive..

19 people...

+rep
 
Mr Neutron

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
I don't want to hijack the thread but I cannot believe that there has been nothing about the recent loss of 30 Americans, shot down last week. I would like to know why 22 SEALS were together on a big, slow ass Chinook? Who made that genius call? Chinooks seem to be great targets because of their size and sluggish maneuverability.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
That also, in part, influenced the thread. Was doing some reading about that and came across the second most dangerous day for the SEALS in their history, Operation Red Wings. Unfortunate for everyone involved.

I read the chopper was hit through the back with an RPG and crashed into the side of a mountain..
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
you say no rope...unless the goat herders were naked you had rope using the clothes...These Seals made more mistakes then I can count..sorry they lost their lives, but this mission was not done wisely at all...
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
you say no rope...unless the goat herders were naked you had rope using the clothes...These Seals made more mistakes then I can count..sorry they lost their lives, but this mission was not done wisely at all...
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That's a judgment call I suppose. If I were the LT. Murphy, not sure I'd trust makeshift rope made from clothing on the fly, not to mention you have to consider the time period that would have taken, and given the mission, time was a key factor along with the element of surprise.

All things considered, just saying..
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Oh I would have aborted the mission for sure with all the changes accuring, but I would have left some naked herdsman tied the fuck up...and the gear they wear would have made a nice rope, so saying he had zero means to subbdue him makes me question his thought process and training...hell I can tie you up with a shoe string and you would not be able to get out..what we talking here wool cloth...hell they are not dressed in paper..these seals fucked up...call it like it is..let them go was not the answer...kill them not the answer either...tie them up and abort mission..and it took to long for him to realize to use his cell phone..come on this guy was not thinking at all..oh I couldn't vote either...none of the choices worked for me...naked tied up herdsman with sheep wool gagged in mouth before aborting would have been my choice
 
RawBudzski

RawBudzski

Well-Known Member
Im proud of anyone who can suck it up and be sent over seas, regardless if their a cook.!. you'll always come back a leader in my eyes.
 
sync0s

sync0s

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
Oh I would have aborted the mission for sure with all the changes accuring, but I would have left some naked herdsman tied the fuck up...and the gear they wear would have made a nice rope, so saying he had zero means to subbdue him makes me question his thought process and training...hell I can tie you up with a shoe string and you would not be able to get out..what we talking here wool cloth...hell they are not dressed in paper..these seals fucked up...call it like it is..let them go was not the answer...kill them not the answer either...tie them up and abort mission..and it took to long for him to realize to use his cell phone..come on this guy was not thinking at all..oh I couldn't vote either...none of the choices worked for me...naked tied up herdsman with sheep wool gagged in mouth before aborting would have been my choice
Click to expand...
Exactly. Someone didn't want to sacrifice the string from their combat boots or something. SEALS are trained to be incredibly resourceful. Their lieutenant fucked up.

You can argue whether someone served or not as knowing, but in this situation the scenario they were in was fucked up so badly that it doesn't take an expert to know this.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
The only why you can learn from mistakes is to know when you "Fucked Up"...hiding it or trying to pretend as you didn't does not help..NO ONE can learn what could and should be done better if ever in a situation like that again...again sorry for the lost life's but in that mission some FUCKED UP decision were made...admit and learn...so this shit won't happen again...I want to know if these men were pressed to complete this mission at all cost....
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I would assume it was a high value target. The story mentioned they had to scrap it twice before because the guy changed locations last minute, so I'm sure there would have been consequences had LT. Murphy aborted.. Better than death though, right?

One guy did survive the entire thing.. 1 out of 20. 4 man team went in, got stranded, rescue chopper went in, crashed, killed everyone onboard.. If I were that sole survivor, it would definitely make me question my worth..
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
we have to sometime stop and think about how we put are men in harms way ...I know sometimes a mission has to be done..but at what cost..19 men dead and for what ???
 
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