Nutrients are confusing! need clarification please

M

madeinindia

Member
hi all! im now 2 weeks in my fourth grow, and for what i can see now my main problem have been nutrients! my first went extremely well, except a water shortage about 2 weeks into flowering. i have always used 1 nute for veg and 1 for flowering: "subsrtal nutri+max - fertilizer for indoor plants (engrais plantes d'interieur)" - it's 6-3-6 and reccomends 1/4 cap/litre "plagron - terra bloom" - at 2-2-4, 4-5ml/litre and i only finod out now that it has to be fed EVERY watering! i kept the 1/wk schedule! attached is their offiial schedule, which is somewhat confusing now, for what i remember i fed the first plant substral until the first 2 weeks of flowering (from change hps bulb and switching 12/12), then switched to plagron and fed molasses +- once every two weeks (2 tablespoons/10 liters) the next grow just went wrong, ended up harvesting weeks earlier because it was dying off, but it still burnt ok :), also the last grow started loosing all its leafs but still harvested what looks like a good weed! it already tastes ok with an overnight dry! these two plants were clones of the first and both heavily lst'd, but what i think i did wrong is i changed the nutes when i changed the light, and for what i have been told i have to wait after the 2 week growth boom! so advancing in theri flowering the plants lacked on nitrogen, right? this is why i dont understand the plagron schedule.. so to recover the last plant my local shop advised me to foliar feed this LiquidOCEAN 2-3-5 at 2ml/liter 1 or 2 times per week, but only used once or twice due to upcoming harvest. now i have new babies growing in their 2-3rd week, and soil nutes will fade out soon, so what id like to understand is if the fertilizers are right (im in doubt about the substral for veg), and how do i combine the foliar feeding? don't i risk overfeeding if i follow each individual dosage??
 

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M

madeinindia

Member
now i have new babies growing in their 2-3rd week, and soil nutes will fade out soon, so what id like to understand is if the fertilizers are right (im in doubt about the substral for veg), and how do i combine the foliar feeding? don't i risk overfeeding if i follow each individual dosage?? , its all written there and sorry for being extensive ,i just started writing and it came https://www.rollitup.org/images/smilies/redeyesmoke.gif
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
First off, throw that 'feeding schedule' in the trash. They're usually overly complicated and run too hot.

In regards to your food, 6-3-6 sounds fine for veg and 2-2-4 sound fine for flowering in 'dirt'. The cal and mag content are important too, I'd hope that you have at least 2% cal and .5-1% mag. 1 tsp/gallon is probably fine for flowering, cut that in half for veg. Just make sure you're watering correctly and keep in mind that salts can buildup in your medium. An occasional 'leaching of your medium' can be very beneficial.

Foliar feeding is not necessary.
 
M

madeinindia

Member
but do i still follow the dosage guidelines? in veg 1/week and flowering every watering? mag is in only in the terra bloom @ 0.48(0.8 )%Mg(MgO). wont the foliar feed help them get tougher? this website lately has serious problems with formatting!
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
Some people feed at every watering, some alternate between nutes and water. If you feed at every watering, you'll probably need a lower dosage of food to avoid salt buildup. If you're every-other-time, a slightly stronger mix of food may be required. Let the health of your plant tell you how often you need to feed. FWIW, I feed at every watering during veg, but I also feed very low (0.4 EC).
 
L

Lucius Vorenus

Well-Known Member
madeinindia said:
hi all! im now 2 weeks in my fourth grow, and for what i can see now my main problem have been nutrients! my first went extremely well, except a water shortage about 2 weeks into flowering. i have always used 1 nute for veg and 1 for flowering: "subsrtal nutri+max - fertilizer for indoor plants (engrais plantes d'interieur)" - it's 6-3-6 and reccomends 1/4 cap/litre "plagron - terra bloom" - at 2-2-4, 4-5ml/litre and i only finod out now that it has to be fed EVERY watering! i kept the 1/wk schedule! attached is their offiial schedule, which is somewhat confusing now, for what i remember i fed the first plant substral until the first 2 weeks of flowering (from change hps bulb and switching 12/12), then switched to plagron and fed molasses +- once every two weeks (2 tablespoons/10 liters) the next grow just went wrong, ended up harvesting weeks earlier because it was dying off, but it still burnt ok :), also the last grow started loosing all its leafs but still harvested what looks like a good weed! it already tastes ok with an overnight dry! these two plants were clones of the first and both heavily lst'd, but what i think i did wrong is i changed the nutes when i changed the light, and for what i have been told i have to wait after the 2 week growth boom! so advancing in theri flowering the plants lacked on nitrogen, right? this is why i dont understand the plagron schedule.. so to recover the last plant my local shop advised me to foliar feed this LiquidOCEAN 2-3-5 at 2ml/liter 1 or 2 times per week, but only used once or twice due to upcoming harvest. now i have new babies growing in their 2-3rd week, and soil nutes will fade out soon, so what id like to understand is if the fertilizers are right (im in doubt about the substral for veg), and how do i combine the foliar feeding? don't i risk overfeeding if i follow each individual dosage??
Click to expand...
If you think about it that probably could have benefited from a Paragraph break or two, eh?
 
dray86man

dray86man

Active Member
"The more you overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."
-Montgomery Scott


As a novice grower, my aim was to keep the first grow simple. Get a good basic system that is easy and straight-forward.

And the best bit of advice I ever read on feeding soilless is by the weight of the containers. Know what a container full of saturated media feels like in terms of weight, and the same for one w/ dry media. When it starts getting light, add nutes.

Oh, and add nutes every time you water. How would YOU like to have only water for breakfast and lunch?
 
209 Cali closet grower

209 Cali closet grower

Well-Known Member
dray86man said:
"The more you overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."
-Montgomery Scott


As a novice grower, my aim was to keep the first grow simple. Get a good basic system that is easy and straight-forward.

And the best bit of advice I ever read on feeding soilless is by the weight of the containers. Know what a container full of saturated media feels like in terms of weight, and the same for one w/ dry media. When it starts getting light, add nutes.

Oh, and add nutes every time you water. How would YOU like to have only water for breakfast and lunch?
Click to expand...
You can't just tell someone to add nuts every time they water, and if they do that, they don't go full strength every feed. Maybe 1/4 or less. Because he didn't say what he is using for soil? might have nutes too.
Just watch those plants, also might want to skip the molasses right now?
 
209 Cali closet grower

209 Cali closet grower

Well-Known Member
in the pics looks like some type of lock out?In the flowering pics, the pic with some small plants look good.

last run I had a big plant that went to shit''lock out'' At the time I thought it was low on n, but when I would add nutes it wouldn't help?? I'm pretty sure it was due to to much molasses-
 
pandorasboxg

pandorasboxg

Active Member
209 Cali closet grower said:
You can't just tell someone to add nuts every time they water, and if they do that, they don't go full strength every feed. Maybe 1/4 or less. Because he didn't say what he is using for soil? might have nutes too.
Just watch those plants, also might want to skip the molasses right now?
Click to expand...
i feed maybe once a week and things a really really healthy so far under a decent set of led's. read your plants
 
M

madeinindia

Member
i've got updates everyone!

the earth i use, if it can be helpful, is plagron lightmix rated @ 5.5-6.9ph with 1,5 kg/m^3 of mineral fertilizers in the following proportion: 12-14-24

today i went to the store to buy new reflective material and i thought of buying a ph tester! at my first grow i tested the water with a paper tester but since then the plumbing in my street has been renewed (now sand comes out of the tap if i put it full blast!) and it turns out a light blue solution in formed with the bucket water i always leave to areate.
the water collected in the tray is green.

so, with this in mind my newborns appear sicker, the lower leafs seem on that yellow shade..
here are some pics
View attachment 2397067View attachment 2397068View attachment 2397070View attachment 2397071

also i am suspicious of a comeback of the aphyds, those green little bastards that killed all my basil plants! i first noticed marks in their leafs, like the one on the right leaf in what should be the third photo, the one from the top.
the fourth is my harvest from my last plant. considering it was dying i am very satisfied!

i also asked for a cal/mag supplement and he said i had to buy a vegetative fertilizer wich had them in it, and that my substral was no good.
 
Sensibowl

Sensibowl

Active Member
madeinindia said:
hi all! im now 2 weeks in my fourth grow, and for what i can see now my main problem have been nutrients! my first went extremely well, except a water shortage about 2 weeks into flowering. i have always used 1 nute for veg and 1 for flowering: "subsrtal nutri+max - fertilizer for indoor plants (engrais plantes d'interieur)" - it's 6-3-6 and reccomends 1/4 cap/litre "plagron - terra bloom" - at 2-2-4, 4-5ml/litre and i only finod out now that it has to be fed EVERY watering! i kept the 1/wk schedule! attached is their offiial schedule, which is somewhat confusing now, for what i remember i fed the first plant substral until the first 2 weeks of flowering (from change hps bulb and switching 12/12), then switched to plagron and fed molasses +- once every two weeks (2 tablespoons/10 liters) the next grow just went wrong, ended up harvesting weeks earlier because it was dying off, but it still burnt ok :), also the last grow started loosing all its leafs but still harvested what looks like a good weed! it already tastes ok with an overnight dry! these two plants were clones of the first and both heavily lst'd, but what i think i did wrong is i changed the nutes when i changed the light, and for what i have been told i have to wait after the 2 week growth boom! so advancing in theri flowering the plants lacked on nitrogen, right? this is why i dont understand the plagron schedule.. so to recover the last plant my local shop advised me to foliar feed this LiquidOCEAN 2-3-5 at 2ml/liter 1 or 2 times per week, but only used once or twice due to upcoming harvest. now i have new babies growing in their 2-3rd week, and soil nutes will fade out soon, so what id like to understand is if the fertilizers are right (im in doubt about the substral for veg), and how do i combine the foliar feeding? don't i risk overfeeding if i follow each individual dosage??
Click to expand...
Um, what?

I think you're asking about how you can tell if you're overfeeding. If your plants look bad, then you're doing something wrong.

No matter what the bottle tells you to do, your plants know better.

And really, stop smoking so much. LOL
 
M

madeinindia

Member
ok i wasn't clear, but now it really looks something is getting onto my plants!
here are pics
IMG_0653.jpgIMG_0644.jpgIMG_0651.jpg
the lower sets of leafs are fading to yellow, from the center towards the "veins". some have dead tips as in the second photo, or dead spots as in the last.
today i thoroughly irrigated with ph'd water and at last a half dosage of nutriets, as soon as the soil dries i will repot them in fresh soil, probably should have done that straight away.

what do oyu think? the camera dosen't render very well the yellow but the are fadin to it!
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
When your pots are too small for your rootball (which is what you've got going on), you're going to get some discolored leaves. Before you do anything drastic, get those in at least 1 gallon of dirt. Feed as normal and watch the new growth.
 
J

Jerm08

Member
HB is right about bigger pots. But it looks like you are developing a nutrient lock out as well. Possibly from PH being messed up from over nuting. From what I could tell from reading your post, it also sounds like your nutes are hot. The smaller your pots are growing in soil, the harder it is to keep your PH steady.
 
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