New seedlings dying after sprout, what am I doing wrong?

Hi - I am pretty new to growing in general so I'm sure I'm doing something wrong.

I planted 3 Nirvana NLs, all 3 germinated and sprouted. I have a Kessil 350 deep purple and a 32w daylight CFL running. These bad boys are only about 5 days old.

One seedling died. The other two are alive but a second seems to be dying the same way the first one did. It looks like the stock right before going in to the dirt is constricting.

I have made several mistakes thus far, I did let the temp on my grow dome reach 99F, I think I over watered a bit (I stopped watering for now. ) I also added 1 drop of Superthrive to each seedling when they were sprouting...and last but not least I think I have the CFL too far away making them stretch....
Ya, I know ...what have I not done wrong.

Here are a few pics:

1. One of the choking plant, can someone tell me what they think the issue is with this plant? Is it over watering, heat, too much stretch for the light on a weak stalk?

2. Second pic is of the healthier of the 2 plants. But it has what looks liek aburn on the tip of a leaf. Is this from the superthrive, or heat? This is where the seed shell was stuck but fell off.


Any advice on what is causing the issues above , and any suggestions on how to salvage ..please?

No more dome water with just water dont give anything else for a week move the cfl a few inches away like 2 and you should be good

Too much nutrients and too much water.

Don't water for while. Move lights closer and no nutes. Give it three days or so, seedlings spend more energy growing roots to support more leaves so in time she will grow best thing you can do is keep an appropriate temp and good lighting, no more superthrive either it can cause huge problems.

you are losing your seedlings to a disease called "Damping Off"

it's really common.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_off

sanitize your entire operation with bleach, and i mean everything. tools, pots, humidity domes, trays, everything.

get fresh media, preferably something sterile. coco coir is great for starting seeds and so are peat pots, and rockwool cubes. at the sprouting stage seeedlings do not require any nutrients at all. thats all in the seed.

i use a variety of media to start seeds depending on their type. for dope intended for hydroponics setups, rockwool cubes are best.

for plants intended to go in soil, you can start them in a 50/50 mix of miracle grow or other potting soil and coco, never use straight potting soil, they are over-fertilized for baby plants. you have to thin potting mix out with something else or your plants will burn.

once you decide on your new media keep your area clean, and sanitize everything between grows in your nursery. do NOT reuse media,

Damping Off thrives in wet conditions. dont overwater, most seedlings dont need a humidity dome.

Damping off is caused by fungi, but can't seedlings suffer the same symptoms and fate from too much water and humidity?

I agree with the DR. Seeds sprout with small round leaves called cotyledons. These cotyledons, or seed leaves, server both as the primary form of photosynthesis and sustenance for the seedling. Some growers wait until they notice them turning yellow to start any fertilizer. Also I always dilute superthrive a ton because its very concentrated and would never put 100 percent strength on anything.

cheechako said:

Damping off is caused by fungi, but can't seedlings suffer the same symptoms and fate from too much water and humidity?

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the water and humidity result in the various fungi killing your seedlings. thats why it's called Damping Off instead of Moulding Off.

reducing the wetness retards the various fungi, preventing Damping Off.

http://tomclothier.hort.net/page13.html

Photo indicates Damping Off as stated above ! Seedlings are delicate, and easily they can be over and under watered while the roots form initially

Thanks guys. As much as I hope you are wrong I think your correct about the damping-off, I read the conditions and my dead plant did exactly what was shown in some pics I saw, it keeled over and died. This is a new setup so I'm wondering how this happened, too much moisture it sound like?

Does this mean one of the medium I used had the fungi /pathogen present in it and it got activated with all the moisture?

Everything was new, but I did not sterilize it. I will clean it with bleach. I also have some peppers growing in close proximity, they are also seedling and seem unaffected. The only new thing introduced was peat pellets which I used for the NL but not for the peppers (and peppers are OK). Wondering if I should dump them. I may experiment and plant some more peppers in the peat pellets, see if they get the same illness.

It sound like I need anti-fungal plant spray to try treating these plants, luckily I have more seeds and I'm guessing these seedlings will die since I'm not planning to treat them (seems like I wold kill them trying to do so anyways)

Funny thing is, well not really funny, but I was handling the seedlings the other day and must have scratched my eye (stoned gardening) and I noticed my eye seems infected...yuck...looks like pink eye. Hope its not fungal spreading...time to go see the Dr. for some drops. Should be interesting explaining how I got that in my eye

CYPH00 said:

Thanks guys. As much as I hope you are wrong I think your correct about the damping-off, I read the conditions and my dead plant did exactly what was shown in some pics I saw, it keeled over and died. This is a new setup so I'm wondering how this happened, too much moisture it sound like?

Does this mean one of the medium I used had the fungi /pathogen present in it and it got activated with all the moisture?

Everything was new, but I did not sterilize it. I will clean it with bleach. I also have some peppers growing in close proximity, they are also seedling and seem unaffected. The only new thing introduced was peat pellets which I used for the NL but not for the peppers (and peppers are OK). Wondering if I should dump them. I may experiment and plant some more peppers in the peat pellets, see if they get the same illness.

It sound like I need anti-fungal plant spray to try treating these plants, luckily I have more seeds and I'm guessing these seedlings will die since I'm not planning to treat them (seems like I wold kill them trying to do so anyways)

Funny thing is, well not really funny, but I was handling the seedlings the other day and must have scratched my eye (stoned gardening) and I noticed my eye seems infected...yuck...looks like pink eye. Hope its not fungal spreading...time to go see the Dr. for some drops. Should be interesting explaining how I got that in my eye

Click to expand...

lulz.

ok, heres the deal, Damping Off is a shitload of different fungi what do the same thing if they fourish on seedlings: they make it keel over at the soil line. telltale markings are black or darm brown staining right at the soil line on the seedling, and a constriction at the soil line.

these many fungi are dead common, they are EVERYWHERE in small ammounts. once they get cracking and start killing plants they multiply.

a few spores + healthy conditions = no problem
a few spores + unhealthy conditions = Damping Off problems and shitloads of spores in your workspace.
a shitload of spores + healthy conditions = irritating continued Damping off and general lack of vitality in your workspace
a shitload of spores + unhealthy conditions = your nursery is now a Deathcamp for seedlings.

clean your area to rediuce the spore load, and maintian healthy conditions for your plants and the problem will vanish.

dont keep adult plants near seedlings in an enclosed area, even healthy adult plants can carry pathogens which are lethal to baby plants.

thats why professional horticulturists keep cuttings and baby seedlings in their own special nursery areas


the infection in your eye is probably a fecal bacteria infection. see a physician.

the latest rage, Organic Gardening, comes with a lot of Bull Shit. and by Bull Shit i mean actual Cow crap. cow crap can infect your eye with various strains of e. coli and other bacteria, resulting in the dreaded Pinkeye!! but it can also infect you with some serious shit.

years of handling what ammounts to sterile laboratory grade garden supplies and living in a world of hand sanitizers, antibacterial wipes and disinfectant sprays has seriously reduced the average urbanite's ability to handle the hazards of the Pre-Modern world, like Organic Fertilizer (which is mainly made up of animal crap). most people have lost the ingrained habits for handling such things built into our society by centuries of Pre-Urban living, and lack of exposure to these hazards has not prepared your immune system for their return you your life through Organic Vegetables, organic garden supplies, and having what ammounts to a bucket of cow shit in your closet with a dope plant sticking out of it.

get your hand washing routine down, and when in your indoor garden, remember, youre touching manure.
just because your growroom looks like a science lab, that doesnt mean your shit is clinically sterile
indoor gardening brings the OUTSIDE IN, and this means your house now contains a colony of all the shit that lives outdoors, and youre touching it.

Just wanted to share an update. One of the seedlings did die, BUT I was able to save the other. I ended up pulling the survivor and washing the dirt/peat off of it under warm water from the faucet. While I was doing this I actually saw something that I assume was fungus/mold it was white looked like spider web a bit on the roots. I rinsed off the roots and pulled the white stuff of gently and quickly re-planted (transplant). The plant recovered nicely and is doing well now.

While both plat has the same issue, one of them was too far gone to save. So it is possible to save them if you rinse and transplant before it gets to far along.

Also I did not end up going to the DR., my eye went back to ok after a couple days of being irritated so I canceled the Dr. appointment.

Thank for all the help!

yes they are damping off like others have stated. let the top of the soil dry up and problem solved.

if you need to water water around the edges of the container and keep the area where the stem goes into the soil dry.

every newb makes this mistake...i know i have..im sure most others have as well.

a pair of safety glasses would be a good idea.
it'll prevent you from inadvertantly getting chemicals and
other nasty stuff in your eyes...
way cheaper than an eye doc visit.

CYPH00 said:

Just wanted to share an update. One of the seedlings did die, BUT I was able to save the other. I ended up pulling the survivor and washing the dirt/peat off of it under warm water from the faucet. While I was doing this I actually saw something that I assume was fungus/mold it was white looked like spider web a bit on the roots. I rinsed off the roots and pulled the white stuff of gently and quickly re-planted (transplant). The plant recovered nicely and is doing well now.

While both plat has the same issue, one of them was too far gone to save. So it is possible to save them if you rinse and transplant before it gets to far along.

Also I did not end up going to the DR., my eye went back to ok after a couple days of being irritated so I canceled the Dr. appointment.

Thank for all the help!

Click to expand...

CYPH00 said:

Just wanted to share an update. One of the seedlings did die, BUT I was able to save the other. I ended up pulling the survivor and washing the dirt/peat off of it under warm water from the faucet. While I was doing this I actually saw something that I assume was fungus/mold it was white looked like spider web a bit on the roots. I rinsed off the roots and pulled the white stuff of gently and quickly re-planted (transplant). The plant recovered nicely and is doing well now.

While both plat has the same issue, one of them was too far gone to save. So it is possible to save them if you rinse and transplant before it gets to far along.

Also I did not end up going to the DR., my eye went back to ok after a couple days of being irritated so I canceled the Dr. appointment.

Thank for all the help!

Click to expand...

white stuff on roots is usually benificial just a FYI its called mychorize...usually

RetiredMatthebrute said:

white stuff on roots is usually benificial just a FYI its called mychorize...usually

Click to expand...

Good to know!

Does this mean one of the medium I used had the fungi /pathogen present in it and it got activated with all the moisture?

Click to expand...

No its from overwatering, spraying and domes, dont do any of this in future.

A major contributor to dampening off is lack of oxygen in the root zone. You should be able to run really high humidity with seedlings with out a problem as long as the root zone stays oxygenated and there is not so much moister in the air that standing water remains on the leaves for more than about 30 min after spraying.

Try adding some perlite to your planting mix or trying a widely successful seedling/cutting mix such as Light warrior by fox farm or promix HP.

Once the roots start dying they are the perfect food source for all of the pathogens that cause this to happen. Also, really hot temps (and really cold temps) can damage cell walls and make plants extremely vulnerable to pathogen attacks.

Superthrive has IBA (Indole3 Butyric Acid) and NAA (Naphthaleneacetic Acid) (this can be seen on oregon state department of agriculture under registered products http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/detail.lasso?-op=eq&product_id=3260). When applying products that stimulate hormonal responses (IBA and NAA act as auxins within the plant [NAA is used as an herbicide and its effects at high concentrations are well documented for this purpose]) you can throw the entire plant feedback response system out of wack.

In the case of seedlings: Seedlings depend heavily on gibberellins in order to break seed dormancy and to initiate the etiolation response. If the plant doesn't have high enough giberellins/auxin ratio it won't carry on normal life processes of a seedling and may spend a significant energy attempting to overcome the hormone imbalance. If the energy cost to restore imbalances is too great the plant will most likely die before it can return to normal growth.

GO diamond black and organicare humega are other products that have IBA and NAA and I have killed roots using these products too heavily or too frequently on freshly rooted cuts.

Definitely too much water. That curling under of the leave shows that. Same occurs in large plants. I have also made the mistake of adding some nutes too early. It harms the little seedlings. There seems to be a lot of knowledgeable people on this site to advise you. Good Luck