Need Some Expert HELP!

Discussion in 'General Marijuana Growing' started by EGrower, Mar 6, 2018.

  1.  
    EGrower

    EGrower Well-Known Member

    Hey everyone! I've been growing for quite a while now indoor/outdoor (but mostly indoor) and have recently stumped my self with a plant issue that just won't go away. I've researched the internet for hours on end and tried many things to try and rectify the issue to no avail. So I come to you guys here as my last ditch effort to try and resolve this problem I've been having.

    First up is my setup:
    2 1k hps
    Vented setup
    ez c02 grow bag
    Tap water 70ppms (little bit chlorine)
    flora nova grow/bloom nutes
    feed every other watering avg. 2tsp per gal
    soilless mix (pro mix hp)
    go from solo cup - 1gal - 3gal bag
    Organic cold pressed neem oil spray every 2 weeks

    My issue is that during Veg there will always be one or two leaves at the bottom of every plant yellowing out until the leaves die off. Once those leaves are dead the next couple closest to the bottom will start yellowing. There is always some sort of small dead spot on the leaves before they start yellowing. Doesn't matter what strain it affects them all some more than others eg. Forum cut gsc gets way more yellow leaves then any other strain I've got.

    In Flower the issue remains around the same rate until about week 2-3 then the yellowing ramps up and spreads up the plant rapidly. I can complete full flower runs If i grow the plants big and with enough leaf mass to last to around day 60-70ish. It is such a pain I cannot lollipop or defoliate of any kind or the yellowing will just start right from the new bottom.

    Please note I'm calling this issue "yellowing" just because I don't know what to diagnose it as yet.

    Here are some pictures of the yellowing in veg:
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    Here are some photos of plants in week 3 of flower:

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    And now some around week 6-7:


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    Here are some leaves I have taken off. Take note of the deep green leaf with small dead spots on it:


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    Things I've tried (that I remember right now haha:
    Switching nutrients
    fungicides
    neem oil
    neem cake
    phing everything to 6.3-6.4
    transplanting a week before flower
    Looking for broad/russet mites with 60x scope
     
    chiqifella likes this.
  2.  
    chiqifella

    chiqifella Well-Known Member

    Organicare fertilizer and promix does not do this ever.
    I suspect calcium issues
     
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  3.  
    EGrower

    EGrower Well-Known Member

    calcium is an immobile nutrient so I would see signs at the new growth which I have not. New growth looks great.

    source: ( Nutrients also have variable degrees of mobility in the plant, which influences where deficiency symptoms appear. For nutrients like nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium, which are mobile in the plant, deficiency symptoms will appear in older leaves. As new leaves develop, they will take the nutrients from the old leaves and use them to grow. The old leaves are then left without enough nutrients, and display the symptoms. The opposite is true of immobile nutrients like calcium; the new leaves will have symptoms first because they cannot take nutrients from the old leaves, and there is not enough in the soil for their needs. )
     
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  4.  
    chiqifella

    chiqifella Well-Known Member

    I asked ed and he said calcium def and mag to probably....
    easy to verify, check your supply and list the only two nutrients that are not being fed sufficiently right?
     
  5.  
    EGrower

    EGrower Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry i don't quite understand what you mean by " check your supply and list the only two nutrients that are not being fed sufficiently right? "
    Definitely something ill try. I was under the impression that FN had enough CaMg in it already but after some googling some people seem to add some more as well. Ill try adding 5ml per gal from here on and see if the yellowing stops.
     
    charface likes this.
  6.  
    dongle69

    dongle69 Well-Known Member

    It looks like your plants are over watered without enough runoff. Too much moisture is probably being held in the bottom of those grow bags, also.
    Make sure you are getting enough runoff (at least 10% every time) and think about getting the bags lifted up a bit with something to encourage proper drainage.
    I suggest feeding every time with soilless.
    No need for extra CalMag with FN.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
    EGrower likes this.
  7.  
    truentgoon

    truentgoon Well-Known Member

    My leaves are turning yellow and brown at the bottom aswell. This happened to me before and when I gave it more calmag and nitrogen it fixed the problem. I'm using coco so yours may be different.
     
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  8.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    Hmmm.

    So your not adding a Ca/Mg to this feed solution you use?

    Clearly a Ca issue and the later issues also point to too much P....I can see that int he veg too.

    I would use a Ca/Mg product with the Nova line! They even tell you too in their charting!

    I might also pH more for hydro....Like set it at 5.8 for nute solution.....Higher pH will allow more P uptake, and that's where your getting the "too much P" from. My hydro pH range was always 5.7 - 6.2 for any hydro style, and soilless is considered hydro as far as feeding goes....

    The fact that Ca is immobile has nothing to do with your problem. It's simply not getting enough.
    Another point would be that high K will limit Ca uptake. The NOVA line is kinda high in K for the Veg. This is one reason G&H has you add a Ca/Mg.
    You could say that Ca also (in a way) helps control P uptake. So does Silica!
    Your in a soilless mix. The use of a good Si supplement is a pretty good idea.

    Soil is a natural buffer if built right. Soil grows will "swing" in pH naturally as it gets watered/fed. So, by doing pH as a hydro and setting your solutions/plain watering's to 5.8 and allowing them to rise to a "limit" of 6.2.....you'll do better right there. This "swing" is important for a balanced nutrient uptake. Being high or low will cause too much/too little problems. These can grow into pH issues from the resulting nutrient issues and a vicious cycle begins....

    Be sure you use as low an N valued Ca/Mg product as you can. The N is a bit high in the Nova line..Not a big issue but, it is there..

    So then. Use a Ca/Mg or mix some Dolo into your ProMix.
    pH as you would for hydro.
    Use a Silica...

    If it still happens....lighten up your P delivery and still use the Ca/Mg
     
  9.  
    Tx-Peanutt

    Tx-Peanutt Well-Known Member

    Mendocino calmag has a flowering brand that has no nitrogen in it if that helps u out finding a calmag with less Nitrogen....
     
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  10.  
    EGrower

    EGrower Well-Known Member

    Thank you all for the replies! Especially you Dr. who, you explained that so well thank you. Didn't leave me with any extra questions except how much dolomite would you use per gal of soil?. I have a big bag of extremely fine powder like dolomite.

    Unfortunately I'm up in the great white north and cannot get the mendocino calmag up here. Best I've found so far are CaMg+ 1-0-0 from general organics, and Raw Calcium/Mag "contains 15% calcium and 3% magnesium"
    Never used a silica supplement before but I know a lot of good growers use them. Thanks again guys!


    I should be able to see results fairly quickly with my 3 weekers and veg as there aren't many damaged leaves yet. Ill report back in a week or so.
     
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  11.  
    EGrower

    EGrower Well-Known Member

    ah yes I forgot to add those. flower stays 45%
    veg is usually around 35%
     
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  12.  
    Beachwalker

    Beachwalker Well-Known Member

    Oh sorry my friend I deleted that when I saw that you were in a soilless mix I really don't know much about that I'm a soil grower so sorry for deleting but I didn't want to lead astray in any way, I had mentioned septoria, it look like and sounded like the issues I had back when my humidity was unchecked is what I deleted
     
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  13.  
    Tx-Peanutt

    Tx-Peanutt Well-Known Member

    @Dr. Who is one of the good ones on this forum brother if your ever in doubt that’s who u want to invite to your thread or grow journal even though some times u don’t wanna hear it but I guarantee it will be the truth ... He knows his stuff as do others but I firmly believe he is wise..Lol
     
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  14.  
    EGrower

    EGrower Well-Known Member

    I couldn't agree more. I have read through many threads on this forum and he tells it like it is.

    Picked up some growtek silicate 0-0-4 and that CaMg+ 1-0-0 going to start off at the lowest recommended doses which is around 1/2 tsp per gall I believe.
     
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  15.  
    Tx-Peanutt

    Tx-Peanutt Well-Known Member

    K happy growing good luck brother
     
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  16.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    No more then a tsp a gallon.....for Pro Mix...it has some already.
    Be better to use the liquid from a bottle here.. Your 2.5 ml is a good place to start....

    Your looking at 3-5 days for the problem to stop progressing..Maybe a tic longer to 7...I might try to get my RH to stick between 45 and 50 % Dropping down to 35% is increasing uptake...So there is part of the P problem then too.

    Other then that...
    TY for your support gentlemen!
     
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  17.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    OH yeah, one more thing to note:

    Pro Mix has lime in it. It's there mostly as a buffer for pH....It may NOT be what your plants uptake needs are.. Hence, you use a bottled Ca/Mg with nutrient lines that do not provide it enough.
    Adding some Dolo will work but, not as effectively as that bottled one....
     
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  18.  
    EGrower

    EGrower Well-Known Member

    Thanks again I appreciate it. I recently transplanted some tester strains with 1tbsp per gal of dolomite :wall: just so I don't have to add CaMg everytime. I'll have to lessen that in the future. Thanks for all your help!
     
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  19.  
    EGrower

    EGrower Well-Known Member

    Little update. I just want to say thank you gentlemen for all of your help. I was able to rectify the issue for the most part. Normally I would be harvesting with around 90% leaves yellowed and dead. Now there is only around 10-15% yellowing around this time. All I changed was feeding every watering and adding in the silica and calmag. Obviously I am going to try and go for 0 yellowing so ill have to play around with the amount of calmag I add.

    Thank you all so much!
     
    zeddd likes this.
  20.  
    zeddd

    zeddd Well-Known Member

    Set the pH to 5.8
     
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