my vac purge is destroying my oil

408isthebay

Active Member
Just got a vac purge but for some reason my oil taste like shit after its been vac purged, i've heat purged many batches so i know what oil is supposed to taste im warming the oil to 100f and vacing to -29hg or so for about an hour, the product is usually almost shatter but you can break off pieces without flakes and looks nice and clear but taste burnt. I tried vac purging a seperate batch overnight at 90f and it still tasted worse than when i just use heat to purge
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
100F isn't hot enough for the solvent to readily escape. We use 115F at -29.5 for about 30 minutes and it still smells like what it was extracted from.
 

Dannoo93

Well-Known Member
Pyrex dish on a hot bath kept between 120/130f for 30 ish min while whipping scrape all to center turn off hear while scraping get all oil to center bring heat back to 130ish spread oil back out as thin as possible remove from heat and leat cool down for half hour then scrape should be like powder if u run good bud


Id like to vac purge but I get nice clean bho my method

Dannoo93
 

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qwizoking

Well-Known Member
You can't taste it being decarbed...bud that's been cured for a few months will be mostly decarbed and is quite delicious...what you can taste is terpenes/flavorful stuffs boil off during the vac/heating....it could be the starting product, you using trim?

And yes powder is good:)
 

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
My opinion........ is that a proper purge requires there to be a "max height" of oil... say 1/4inch thick. If your attempting to run more oil you need more surface area/larger dish..the purge time shouldn't be dependent on the amount of oil your running..and this is important to not develop a film and trap gases..its best to have as thin a layer possible
 

408isthebay

Active Member
soo whats the max temp i can vac at before i lose terpenes. I feel like my vac purged stuff has less terpenes than heat purged.. kinda pissing me off
 

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
There is no max temp(130 or so depending on what your doing though)...those flavorful compounds are evaporating pretty quickly at/above room temp giving weed its strong smell..a vacuum lowering the pressure let's them evaporate faster...so really you just want to keep it fluid, about 115 or whatever so the solvent can purge out the mass of resin....

I personally don't use a vac, anymore..I would if I could run an inert gas through to prevent oxidation..but its too much extra work..slow and steady wins the race for me...
 

nme

Member
I like a full vac for 24hrs, I go to 110ª (try keeping temp steady as possible) for about 6-8hrs during the vac. Works for me...
 

Sirdabsalot462

Well-Known Member
What FD,Qk said.

The oil's oleoresin is still too viscous for butane to escape the matrix at 100°.

Kick up your temp to 115°-120 ish. ..I know it's kind of hard to achieve temps in increments of five, unless you have a very accurate heat source, so go for 120.
Below is a chart I've had for a very long, time to gain a stronger grasp on how the solvent escapes an oleoresin matrix..

I stole this from a member of Toke City.can't remember his S Name at the moment.




Under a -29h vacuum @ room temp
*note the oil is too viscous (thick) for the solvent to escape*

Ignore the 90° temp reference, as stated the chart is fairly old, but still captures the concept

* Temp should be 115-120°




And, the final product after vac purge for about 30 minutes.

 

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
Hey that's pretty cool...thought I'd seen just about all the graphs, charts whatever thrown around the various forums
 

408isthebay

Active Member
so you're saying i wasted 300 bucks on a vac system? what temp do you heat purge at

There is no max temp(130 or so depending on what your doing though)...those flavorful compounds are evaporating pretty quickly at/above room temp giving weed its strong smell..a vacuum lowering the pressure let's them evaporate faster...so really you just want to keep it fluid, about 115 or whatever so the solvent can purge out the mass of resin....

I personally don't use a vac, anymore..I would if I could run an inert gas through to prevent oxidation..but its too much extra work..slow and steady wins the race for me...
 

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
Well a vac will allow you to make comb and makes waxing a lot easier..makes all processes faster..and is really the only sure way, with winterizing , to purge..namely the 'anes ......alkanes

But now days I always winterize after a nonpolar solvent...a vac is great to have, I didn't mean it that way, I just don't currently have use for one....I like the powder in my avatar and I personally don't believe in heating and sucking to alter consistency
pardon the choppy thought process/sentence structure

I think im just confusing you....and maybe myself:).....and I'm not even smoking!




Just do 120...suck don't suck....not really entirely necessary.....but I doubt its the reason for flavorless hash
 

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
I stole a snippet from skunkpharm...you should read through their pages, may help clear up any ?'s




Air movement over the pool speeds up evaporation, by whisking away the saturated boundary layer and providing the extra energy for the molecules of butane to escape the surface of the oil, as it is ricocheting about in the pool. Care must be exercised here, as any dust or lint in the air will end up in the oil, so usually a cheese cloth or similar porous cover is placed over it, before blowing over the top with a fan.

We can also speed it up with the application of heat. Any heat will speed up the evaporation, and one line of thought is to keep the heat low and around 60C/140F, using a hot pad after the hot water bath and scraping and popping any bubbles with a razor blade. A typical purge might take an hour and provides maximum terpene retention.

When adding bottom heat, you can also add aloose fitting lid, which will speed up the purging and keep out lint and dust.

For a faster purge,the temperature can be raised to above the melting point of the cannabis essential oils, or around 82C/180F, to give the butane molecules maximum mobility.

Instead of heat, vacuum may be applied to speed up the purge process. That is the process that we use when we wish to maintainthe cannabinoids in their carboxylic acid forms.

In thin film vacuum purging, we place about an 3/16″ of the oil in a 6″ Pyrex Petri dish, and place that in avacuum chamber, which also contains a hot plate. That allows us to manipulate both the temperature and atmospheric pressure, so that we can achieve boiling at very low, or even ambient temperatures.

While we use 180F to vacuum purge araw oleoresin, adding heat isn’t necessary when thin film vacuum purging raw oleoresins redissolved in ethanol. The alcohol will boil away under 28.5″Hg at ambient temperatures, as will the water that is left behind, even without adding any heat.
 

midnitetoak

Active Member
That chart explains how I manage to purge oil with a mityvac that tops out at -25hg... It's the heat that makes it work!
 

Passthat87

Active Member
yo man I have been having the same problem i used to get good tasting stuff with heat purge. Then got a vac system and it tastes like shit/ harsh on throat on the aftertaste. Sometimes i see smoke coming from the pump, and if I close the ball valve quickly sometimes i see a faint fog or mist inside the chamber any input or thoughts on this?
 
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