Maybe John Kennedy's driver William Greer shot him with an air pistol

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7forever

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http://www.jfk-info.com/wc-zapr.htm
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, Mr. Zapruder, after you had the film developed I understand Mr. Sorrels from the Secret Service came over and helped you get the films developed and you gave two copies of your films to Mr. Sorrels, is that correct?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. Yes. One we have sent to Washington the same night and one went over for the viewers of the FBI on Ervay Street.

Mr. LIEBELER. That's the Secret Service?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. The Secret Service
--I brought one roll there and they told me to dispatch it by Army plane or I don't know what they had done with it but it was supposed to have gone to Washington and one of them, I believe, remained here with Mr. Sorrels. He came to my office quite a few times to show them to different people.

Zapruder never had possession of the original film, period. The unedited film showed Greer clearly shooting Kennedy.

Mr. LIEBELER. Now, I understand that you, yourself, retained the original film?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. No; I don't have that at all--I don't have any at all. They were sold to Time and Life magazines.

Mr. LIEBELER. You sold that to Life magazine?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. Yes.


Time Life never had the original film, period. The original showed Greer clearly shooting Kennedy. This was a back room pay off for Abe. Zapruder never had any control of this film at all. He was just playing along and became a multimillionaire by keeping his mouth shut. The original with Greer clearly shooting Kennedy is likely locked up somewhere but will likely never be shown or see the light of day, certainly not in our life times.
 

7forever

Active Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DguBcLpWBS0&feature=related
I knew a long time ago, bobharris77 had realized during the making of this clip that the film had in fact been altered to hide the fact the driver shot Kennedy. He did make some adjustments to it because you can no longer advance it with your mouse from 158-200-202. At two minutes you could see the red smoke and then advance to 202 and see the red blotch appear, both of those happening in unison with the white extending backward.

At around 1:30 he's babbling on about how the driver's left hand is at his side while holding steady at frame 312. At the end of his verbal nonsense he advances to frame 313 where you can clearly see it extend in sync with the headshot. What he did was create this effect which distracts the viewer from seeing the fake white working in sync with the fake red blotch. He did this because the screen didn't change for 30 or more seconds before advancing it to 313. This amount of time would have revealed to at least some viewers the connection between the fake reflection and the headshot. Bob, knows the driver fired on Kennedy and this effect proves it beyond any doubt. Bob, is a wannabe conspiracy theorist which means the driver did it, is off limits. This should teach anybody out there...do not try to use the film to disprove an obvious fact because some sleuth may come along and use it against you. After this idiot found out I was using his stupid video to prove the film was altered he went back and enhanced the effect to better hide the fake white and fake mist causing and hiding the headshot from the front.

The above effect was created to hide the fake reflection and fake blood mist from working in sync to cause and hide the heashot coming from the driver. Watch the fake white extend in unison with the red mist between 312-313.

 

7forever

Active Member
I shaved off two seconds on the end, making it only 3 seconds and it creates a huge difference in seeing Greer's left arm going over his right shoulder in unison with the headshot.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
i shaved off two seconds on the end, making it only 3 seconds and it creates a huge difference in seeing greer's left arm going over his right shoulder in unison with the headshot.
nobody gives a fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cuss:
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
i dont need to see any videos even my dog knows better than to steal somthing off the table while im staring right at him sitting in the same room


my dog is smart enough to steal food only when no one is looking. but these people who had kenny killed were like fuck it i doubt anyone will notice my air pistol shootin the pres in the head at point blank range in a car full of 5 other people with the top down on live tv with in front of thousands of witnesses lol lol


seriously WTF? lol this has to be a joke lol
 

7forever

Active Member
Has anyone tried telling this to there skeptic family or friends. at first thought everyone thought I was real life trollin them hard, but once I showed them this post they are like "WTF"

I figure no media network is allowed to talk about this material, but can't 4chan or something get this spread on the internet.

I want to post it on my facebook wall but I feel FED's would come knocking (yes just in case paranoid)
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
Has anyone tried telling this to there skeptic family or friends. at first thought everyone thought I was real life trollin them hard, but once I showed them this post they are like "WTF"

I figure no media network is allowed to talk about this material, but can't 4chan or something get this spread on the internet.

I want to post it on my facebook wall but I feel FED's would come knocking (yes just in case paranoid)
You're damn right the feds will come knocking!!!! They will be accompanied by some nice men wearing white with a nice jacket for you to wear. Don't sweat it, they are just taking you to dinner.;-)
 

7forever

Active Member
The average person who's being honest will admit they clearly see Greer's left arm crossing over his right shoulder in the Nix film. That is conclusive evidence the Zfilm was altered to hide jfk's real assassin. This case is closed, it's just a matter of getting my work out there in front of millions of people.
Greer's left arm goes over right shoulder in unison with headshot.

The grey streak was added @ alteration...simple as that.

case closed
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
dude in no way can you see him shooting anyone, thats complete bs you must be off your meds, not one poster or veiwer who has seen this thread agrees with you that they see greer shooting its only you, try to get one person on this site who agrees with you before you go try to reach the "millions"

:D just sayin


I mean look below in you own video, greer's left hand is clearly seen the whole time sitting on his thigh. how can you deny that greers left hand is sitting there on his thigh during the shooting????? look!! my god man open your eyes!




u cant see this white dudes lilly white hand sitting there??????
 

7forever

Active Member
nobody gives a fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cuss:
I could NOT care less if you or anyone gives a fuck. The truth has been revealed and won't be challenged by any clowns on message boards or any researchers because the driver killing Kennedy is obvious and most authors who penned books have known it for decades.
 

7forever

Active Member
dude in no way can you see him shooting anyone, thats complete bs you must be off your meds, not one poster or veiwer who has seen this thread agrees with you that they see greer shooting its only you, try to get one person on this site who agrees with you before you go try to reach the "millions"

:D just sayin


I mean look below in you own video, greer's left hand is clearly seen the whole time sitting on his thigh. how can you deny that greers left hand is sitting there on his thigh during the shooting????? look!! my god man open your eyes!




u cant see this white dudes lilly white hand sitting there??????
The driver's fake hand is easily proven so by the nix film showing Greer's left arm moving over his right should in the nix film. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.:dunce:
 

7forever

Active Member
dude in no way can you see him shooting anyone, thats complete bs you must be off your meds, not one poster or veiwer who has seen this thread agrees with you that they see greer shooting its only you, try to get one person on this site who agrees with you before you go try to reach the "millions"

:D just sayin


I mean look below in you own video, greer's left hand is clearly seen the whole time sitting on his thigh. how can you deny that greers left hand is sitting there on his thigh during the shooting????? look!! my god man open your eyes!




u cant see this white dudes lilly white hand sitting there??????
The driver's fake hand at frame 304 is easily proven so by seeing that there is NO fake arm attached to the fake hand. YOU DON'T WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.:dunce:

304 AND 305 NO HAND OR ARM.lol

 

7forever

Active Member
dude in no way can you see him shooting anyone, thats complete bs you must be off your meds, not one poster or veiwer who has seen this thread agrees with you that they see greer shooting its only you, try to get one person on this site who agrees with you before you go try to reach the "millions"

:D just sayin


I mean look below in you own video, greer's left hand is clearly seen the whole time sitting on his thigh. how can you deny that greers left hand is sitting there on his thigh during the shooting????? look!! my god man open your eyes!




u cant see this white dudes lilly white hand sitting there??????
These people accomplished more than you have with your childish, inane replies about Kennedy's real assassin. At least they tried to do something.:dunce:
 

mistaphuck

Well-Known Member
I ask you sir, even if the driver did do it.... so what? old prez dead, sinister plot? most likely. what are you trying to accomplish, and how is it cosmically significant? you really care so much about what carbon based lifeform shot some other carbon based lifeform almost 50 years ago on a pale blue dot drifting around a small star in the Orion-cygnus arm of one spiral galaxy out of billions?
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
my only response is to inquire your age 7forever. you must get duped a lot in your life. think back, how many times have you been taken for a sucker?



how many trained assasins do you know who recoil from thier own gunshot they themselves have fired. its clear the kneejerk reaction of all occupants in the car at the moment of impact was to instantly and reflexivly duck as soon as the surprise bullet smashes into the skull of the president.

as you can see as soon as the preidents head is exploded with the bullet the driver turns back in fear ducks his head put both hands on the wheel and floors it.


everything points to you being an idiot :D



now how do you explain the bullet that ended up lodged in senator Connally's thigh who was sitting in front of the president?????????? lol do you even know about that? or was that lead bullet fired from an air pistol too?
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
This is important stuff, for it shows that the killing shot came from the rear.
This work is also important because it allows anyone to see the reality of the forward snap, which has come under some revisionism lately from David Wimp and others. But they are wrong, as you can see for yourself here.
12 December 2003
Here is a broader and longer view of the forward snap and the beginning of the rearward lurch, also provided by Alexandre. He used better images for this work. The sequence starts at 311 and continues through 317. View it repeatedly, and you will see not only JFK's motions, but the lack of corresponding motions by any of the other passengers. This gives the lie to ideas that an deceleration of the car caused any of the motions—it didn't happen that way.
I also think I see a quick little rearward snap in 314 (sort of a "pop-back") right after the forward snap. If so, it would likely be a visible manifestation of the jet effect. Comments by viewers would be appreciated.
311–317


312–313

313–314

314–315

Back to Zapruder Film
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
WHY THE ZAPRUDER FILM IS AUTHENTIC HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! DUMBASS!!!!



NOVEMBER 22, 1963 8:00 am
Abraham Zapruder arrives at the offices of Jennifer Juniors. Marilyn Sitzman and Lillian Rogers persuade him to retrieve his 8 mm. movie camera from his home.
11:30 am

Zapruder returns to his office after retrieving his camera.
12:30 pm

Zapruder films the assassination from a pedestal in Dealey Plaza.
12:45 pm

Zapruder returns to his office and locks the camera in his safe.
1:30 pm

Reporter Harry McCormick takes Secret Service Agent Forrest Sorrels to Zapruder's office. Emotionally upset, Zapruder agrees to furnish Sorrels with a copy of his film - if Sorrels will agree that the copy is only for use by the Secret Service and that it would not be shown or given to any media. Sorrels agrees.
1:45 pm

Together with Zapruder's partner, Irwin Schwartz, Sorrels, McCormick and Zapruder drive to Dallas Morning News. Since they can't process the film, they walk to WFAA-TV. Zapruder is interviewed live; Schwartz is photographed with the camera.
2:15 pm

A police car takes Sorrels, Schwartz, Zapruder and McCormick to the Kodak plant. Zapruder makes arrangements for the processing of the film. Phil Willis meets Sorrels at the Kodak plant and also agrees to furnish the Secret Service with copies of his 35 mm. slides. Sorrels gets a phone call and leaves for Dallas Police Headquarters.
3:15 pm
(est.)
The processed film is shown to fifteen to eighteen people. To have copies made, Zapruder must take camera original to Jamieson Company.
4:00 pm
(est.)
Zapruder has three (3) copies made by the Jamieson Company. He requests affidavit that no more copies were made.
4:30 pm
(est.)
Zapruder returns to Kodak plant with the original and three (3) copies. He has the three (3) copies processed and requests affidavits from Kodak personnel that only three (3) copies were processed.

Afternoon
Richard Stolley and Tommy Thompson of LIFE fly in from Los Angeles. LIFE stringers Patsy Swank and Holland McCombs learn that Zapruder has film of the assassination. Forrest Sorrels receives two of the three first generation copies and assures Zapruder they will be used only for official purposes by the Secret Service.
Evening
Stolley sets up offices in the Adolphus Hotel and begins calling Zapruder's home at fifteen minute intervals. Zapruder, shaken by the day's events, drives aimlessly around Dallas.
9:55 pm
Secret Service Agent Max Phillips sends one of the two copies to Secret Service Chief Rowley in Washington, D.C. In an accompanying note, Phillips says that "Mr. Zapruder is in custody of the 'master' film."
11:00 pm

Stolley reaches Zapruder at home and asks to come out and view the film. Zapruder declines. They agree to meet the next morning at 9:00am at Zapruder's office.
NOVEMBER 23
8:00 am
Stolley is waiting at Zapruder's office when Zapruder arrives. The film is screened for Stolley. Stolley agrees that LIFE will pay Zapruder $50,000 in two installments for print rights to the film. Stolley leaves with the original and perhaps the remaining copy. The original is sent to Chicago where the LIFE editorial staff has assembled to prepare the new issue to be on the newsstands the following Tuesday, November 26th. During the preparation of black and white copies, the original is broken in several places by photo technicians. Splices are made.
At some time this weekend, a copy of the film is sent to New York where it is viewed by C.D. Jackson, publisher of LIFE. Jackson decides to acquire all rights to the film and so instructs Stolley.
Evening
Since copies cannot be made in Dallas, Gordon Shanklin, FBI SAIC in Dallas, is instructed to send the copy the FBI obtained from Sorrels by commercial flight to Washington, D.C. Shanklin does so, at the same time requesting that the FBI Lab make three, second-generation copies, one for Washington and two for the Dallas Field Office.
NOVEMBER 24
Zapruder may have screened the film for Forrest Sorrels and other law enforcement agents.
NOVEMBER 25
Morning
Stolley meets with Zapruder in the offices of Zapruder's lawyer. The negotiations end with LIFE purchasing world-wide rights to the film for $150,000.
During these negotiations, Dan Rather is shown the film. He neglects to make an immediate bid but elects to check with New York first. During a radio broadcast with Richard C. Hottelet and Hughes Rudd, Rather describes the film which he has "just returned from seeing." Later that day, Rather describes his viewing of the film on the CBS Evening News. Rather could only have seen this film at this time if Zapruder had retained one copy and provided Stolley with only the original the previous Saturday.
NOVEMBER 26 Morning
LIFE begins newsstand distribution of the November 29th issue. At the same time, various LIFE editors order up prints of the film for viewing in their offices. I was shown one of these in October 1966. Since control was lax, bootleg copies began to circulate.

What emerges from this chronology is a single important fact: At no time during this hectic weekend did the original of the film ever leave the custody and control of Abraham Zapruder and LIFE magazine. Two first-generation copies were provided to Forrest Sorrels of the Secret Service in the late afternoon of November 22nd . One of these copies was shipped to Washington that night. The other was turned over to the FBI and sent by commercial air to Washington the next day. But the original stayed with Zapruder until the morning of November 23rd when Dick Stolley walked out of Zapruder's office with it under his arm. That original remained under LIFE's custody and control until it was given back to Zapruder's family in the 1970s.
But how do we know that LIFE did not conspire in the alteration of the film? As it is impossible to prove any negative, so it is impossible to prove this negative. But there is no shred of evidence that it happened. On Monday, November 25th, many millions of LIFE magazine copies went into the mails to subscribers with black and white frames from the film, and, about the same time, copies of the film began appearing in editors' offices. Had the conspiratorial alteration of the film by LIFE and the government already taken place? If not, it would have been too late. With unknown copies floating around, the toothpaste could no longer have been put back in the tube.
Recently, another thread in the fabric has become visible. On Saturday morning, November 23rd, 1963, Zapruder sold just print rights to LIFE for $50,000. Other media were clamoring at Zapruder's heels, and two days later he sold additional rights to LIFE for $100,000 more. Are we to believe that Zapruder - always a shrewd businessman - had let Stolley walk out of his office with both the original and the last first- generation copy? How would Zapruder be able to negotiate with the media for the remaining rights to his film?
Had he given up his last copy of the film, then Dan Rather could not have viewed the film in the offices of Zapruder's lawyer on the morning of November 25th. Had he given up the last copy of his film, he could not have shown the film numerous times to Forrest Sorrels and others over that weekend. Recently, a new fact has come to light via the inquiries of the AARB. Their report disclosed that "...the Zapruder family's company possessed a third, first-generation copy of the Zapruder film." If Zapruder retained a first-generation copy of the film, then there was no time ever when the toothpaste could have been put back in the tube. You say that Zapruder and LIFE could both have cooperated with the government in the alteration of the film? You can say this if you will. You can believe it, I suppose... But I can't. I think it's silly.
At this conference two years ago, Professor James Fetzer declared that a "historical turning point" had been reached: The alteration of the Zapruder film had been proven! When my colleague here, Hal Verb, had the temerity to disagree, the Professor told him he was "irrational." When earlier this year, I had the temerity to disagree, I was told by the Professor that "...you have thereby discredited yourself as a commentator on these matters."

Well, Professor Fetzer is a commentator here today and you will be able to judge his commentary. But since he is here, I want to close by taking up two of his contentions. First, that the original of the Zapruder film was sent to the National Photographic Interpretation Center on the evening of November 22nd. Second, that famed eyewitness identification expert Elizabeth Loftus has produced findings showing that salient details of events are remembered with 98% accuracy and completeness.
In a recent email to me, Professor Fetzer wrote:
"A study that appears in ASSASSINATION SCIENCE [states that] the film appears to have been in the hands of the National Photographic Interpretation Center run by the CIA already Friday night, where an original and three copies were struck and then returned to Dallas in time for a small group of reporters, including Dan Rather, to view the film in a preliminarily-edited version."
The study referred to is by Mike Pincher and Roy L. Schaeffer. These writers manufacture out of whole cloth a flight of "at least the original and one copy" from Dallas to Andrews Air Force Base on the night of the 22nd and a return flight of the altered film to Dallas in the early morning hours of November 23rd. They do this without a single fact to support their fancy. They even cite the Max Phillips note (quoted above), but never tell the reader that Phillips also pointed out that "Mr. Zapruder is in custody of the 'master' [read 'original'] film."
They - and apparently Professor Fetzer - have simply misinterpreted the so-called "CIA 450 Documents" discovered by Paul Hoch in the early 1980s. These documents recount the preparation of four photo briefing boards for government officials based upon NPIC's analysis of the film. The question at issue is the timing of the shots. The selection of frames for the briefing boards makes clear that NPIC is looking at the same film we see today.
Telltale information is found on page six of the documents which refer to the December 6, 1963 issue of LIFE. Hence, the examination was carried out not on November 22nd - but sometime in December 1963. The copy of the film analyzed was the Secret Service copy, whose agents stayed with the film while the briefing boards were prepared. AARB located and interviewed two former employees of NPIC who stated that internegatives were made of only single frames to be mounted on briefing boards and that they never "reproduced the film as a motion picture."
Professor Fetzer makes his second claim in his own recognizable style. He wrote to me:

"On Table 3.1 of Elizabeth Loftus, EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY, appears a summary of research with 151 subjects which reports that, when a group of subjects considered what they were observing to be salient or significant, they were 98% accurate and 98% complete with respect to their observations, which reinforces their importance as evidence. Even though you appear to accept the widely-held belief that eyewitness testimony is unreliable, Loftus' findings provide one more striking indication that opinions that are popular are not always true. "Indeed, to think that a view must be true because it is widespread is to commit the FALLACY OF POPULAR SENTIMENTS... While you have cited an appropriate expert in Elizabeth Loftus, you have misrepresented her findings concerning eyewitness testimony in relation to the assassination of JFK... Indeed, David [Mantik] offers a calculation that, whenever dozens of witnesses all recall an event...in the same way then they are almost certainly correct. If a single witness has a 2% chance of being wrong, then if all ten witnesses report the same event, the probability they are all wrong is 02 to the 10th power or 10 to the minus 17th, which equals .00000000000000001!"
There are so many errors in these few lines that it is difficult to know where to begin.
First of all, these are not Elizabeth Loftus' findings, but the account of an experiment published in the Harvard Law Review by Marshall, et al. entitled, "Effects of Kind of Question and Atmosphere of Interrogation on Accuracy and Completeness of Testimony." The focus of the study is not "salience" or "accuracy" or "completeness" - but, rather, methods of interrogation. Elizabeth Loftus cited the study in her book - but these are not "her findings."
Had Professor Fetzer taken the trouble to look at the article he cites, he would have recognized that the "salient items" were not picked out by the people tested in the experiment, but by staff members and high school students. Hence, he misspeaks in saying, "...when a group of subjects considered what they were observing to be salient or significant, they were 98% accurate and 98% complete with respect to their observations."
It is Professor Fetzer's practice to ascribe nonsensical views to people and then criticize them for holding them. Likewise here. The Professor ascribes to me the silly idea that "...a view must be true because it is widespread." Then he exposes me as having committed "the fallacy of popular sentiments" for holding such a silly idea. This isn't argument. It's just silliness!
Then there is Professor Fetzer's claim that I have "misrepresented" Elizabeth Loftus' findings with respect to the Kennedy assassination. It is not only I who "accepts the widely-held belief that eyewitness testimony is unreliable," it is also Elizabeth Loftus. In fact, it is precisely her work which brought about this "widely-held belief." The cover of Eyewitness Testimony states that the book "...makes the psychological case against the reliability of the eyewitness."
This is the book's single, unifying theme. Eyewitness testimony is both unreliable at its inception and subject to corruption by later acquired information and questioning.
Since I'd worked with Elizabeth Loftus on two cases (most recently the Oklahoma City bombing case), I asked her what she thought of the use the Harvard Law article had been put to by David Mantik and Professor Fetzer. She wrote back:

"It is fair to say that salient details are remembered better than peripheral ones. Also, it is easier to mislead people about peripheral details. "It is WRONG [her emphasis], however, to say anything like 98% of salient details are accurately remembered. If that was shown in the Marshall case, it is only with those subjects, with that stimulus material, in that study. We virtually never make claims about absolute percentages because the real percentages in any situation depend on so many other factors."
So much for my alleged misinterpretation of her views.
Next is Professor Fetzer's quotation of a statistical error by David Mantik. Here, as in so many other things, he wraps himself in David Mantik's skirts. But David Mantik is mistaken when he writes:
"If a single witness has a 2% chance of being wrong, then if all ten witnesses report the same event, the probability they are all wrong is .02 to the 10th power or 10 to the minus 17th, which equals .00000000000000001!"
They both got it wrong. As Art Snyder will be able to explain to you, they confused a Type I Probability (false negative) with a Type II Probability (false positive). I am sure Professor Fetzer will go on for hours in argument with Art Snyder about this. As for me, I know zip about probability theory and find the important point to be Elizabeth Loftus' "...it's wrong to say anything like 98% of salient details are accurately remembered."
You may wonder why I've taken the time to attack Professor Fetzer here. It is because he expresses a trend in assassination research which I find odious.
His emphasis on credentials and the cult of expertise (or alleged expertise) is demeaning to the tradition of inquiry we all share as a community. When the final history of this case is written it will be based on the canons of acute historical research. These canons have nothing to do with how many initials you can hang after your name or how often you're called "distinguished."
They have to do with the evidence you put forward for your view and the reasonableness of the interpretations you hang on that evidence. That's what Sylvia Meagher and I believed when we started working together in the 60s. It was a long time ago in virtually another country. It was 1965... 66... 67, and here and there people were beginning to distrust what they'd been told.
There was Mary Ferrell in Dallas, Penn Jones just outside Dallas, Sylvia Meagher in New York City, Paul Hoch in Berkeley, Cyril Wecht in Pittsburgh, Vince Salandria in Philadelphia, Harold Weisberg in Maryland, Ray Marcus and David Lifton in Los Angeles... and many, many more. A housewife, a lawyer for the school board, the editor of a small paper, a graduate student, a young professor, a WHO official. We were little people. People who had only a few things in common -- inquiring minds, an unwillingness to be intimidated by public attitudes, more than a little tenacity, a bit of modesty and a willingness to laugh at oneself. None of us had any money or hoped to make any money out of this. We were doing it for its own sake. We formed a community... the closest thing to a true community of inquiry that I've ever known.
We shared information on a transcontinental basis. I still remember the excitement with which Vince Salandria and I received our copy of the Sibert-O'Neill Report from Paul Hoch! None of us gave a damn for credentials because - as we put it - "There are no Ph.Ds in assassination research."
Back then - with the might and majesty of the federal government aligned with the news media in defense of the Warren Report - performing assassination research was somewhat like doing research on UFOs. It was not respectable. And so we formed our own community and helped with each others' research and critiqued each others' drafts. It's that community which still stands in my mind's eye as the ideal - and it's that community to which I owe my loyalty.
That community lies at the farthest remove from "Assassination Science" and its promoter.
Josiah Thompson, 11/98​
 
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