bicit
Well-Known Member
I've been leaning towards using lenses as well. I'm leaning towards the glass ones from china just due to availability.
Mau5Capades: builds & grow journal
- Thread starter Growmau5
- Start date
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
They weight a lot. As expected with big and thick glass. But worth noting.
bicit
Well-Known Member
This is true, but so does a giant hunk of aluminum. Personally Im mostly looking at the simpler maintenance and better protection they offer. Foiler feeding around my bare emitters is troubling.
While you're here I had a question for you mr @Greengenes707 . I was wondering if you have had a chance to play with the deffuser lens compatible with the ledil reflectors? more specifically I was wondering how they impacted losses and uniformity vs just the reflector alone.
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
That's my point...heavy ass alumin to begin with+a bunch of heavy glass lenses= up to building code necessity to hang.
I have in a small scale but not detailed testing and haven't got to play with more than one cob of them. It on my todo list...for the protection. Ledil just pisses me off.
how so ?
bicit
Well-Known Member
This is true. The 12"x32" heatsink I've got on order is already 20lbs. Though REALSTYLES tents seem to be holding up with everything hung off them.
I'm going to wager to guess it's because their products are a pain in the ass to find in stock with a MOQ under 100 pieces. That's my biggest gripe with them.
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Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Almost the opposite. Their MQO's are 52 or 60 depending on which model. Neither of which is an issue for a small-full sized garden DIY project...and aren't even a thought for bulk builds.
My issue is they don't help or answer questions...just give treasure maps. Don't have my needed quantities on hand when I need them. Their own 3070 holder is a bitch to work with and different hole spacing than every other holder made(while all others are the same and compatible). They don't make holders for 3590 at all...ideals are fuckign ugly, and need to many tapped holes. Limited FOV options(angles). My list could go on.
Either make their own holder for their reflectors...or actually work together with someone else to make a good one.
But...they are unfortunately the best option...so we must deal.
Same case with cree...a bitch to work with(the company, not product)...but a no alternative option without significant sacrifice..so we deal with it.
I have 100's of lbs worth of lights hanging, and never worried in any way. But If I could drop 50% of that weight, I wouldn't even need time to blink...sign me up. Might be where silicone has it's biggest edge.
@Growmau5
Finally got to watch the new vid. Love your room.
What is your normal avg yield with your 600hps?
Customization of the heat sink may allow us to reduce the weight and cost of the heatsink. Lots of variables besides surface area. Such as density of material, thickness of base plate, copper on aluminum, fin design. It seems a lot of the profiles from heatsinkusa may be thicker than needed, especially for those running soft.
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EfficientWatt
Well-Known Member
Hi @Greengenes707,
Are looks that important for a holder inside a lens or reflector to you ? I personally don't care much for it. As far as there ability to reorient light goes, do you have a preference, and may I ask why ?
I thought ideal holders only required 2 screws, how is that a lot ?
EDIT : Ok, so apparently the cxb3070 holders require 4 screws, but not the bigger cx35 ones, thanks Growmau5 for clearing that up !
Thanks.
(Amazing work @Growmau5, sorry for going a little offtopic here)
Are looks that important for a holder inside a lens or reflector to you ? I personally don't care much for it. As far as there ability to reorient light goes, do you have a preference, and may I ask why ?
I thought ideal holders only required 2 screws, how is that a lot ?
EDIT : Ok, so apparently the cxb3070 holders require 4 screws, but not the bigger cx35 ones, thanks Growmau5 for clearing that up !
Thanks.
(Amazing work @Growmau5, sorry for going a little offtopic here)
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Growmau5
Well-Known Member
@PurpleBuz I agree, custom heatsinks using pins instead of fins will increase surface area and reduce weight significantly. too bad they are only available in single cob units, for now...
@Greengenes707 thanks for the view! back when I was running (6) 600w HPS over two 4x8 trays, I would get about a pound per 600w light with strains like Blue Dream and SourOG. My last room with the 6x600 was very well dialed in equipment wise: 36000btu mini split, water cooled CO2 genny, etc etc. The best yield I ever got was 3.5lbs under 3-600s with CO2 and advanced nutrients. One run of AN cost me over $900 and the plants looked burnt and crispy by the end at half strength, lol
But I have gotten yields as low as 0.66 gpw with SSHaze & mendo purps back in the day.
@Greengenes707 thanks for the view! back when I was running (6) 600w HPS over two 4x8 trays, I would get about a pound per 600w light with strains like Blue Dream and SourOG. My last room with the 6x600 was very well dialed in equipment wise: 36000btu mini split, water cooled CO2 genny, etc etc. The best yield I ever got was 3.5lbs under 3-600s with CO2 and advanced nutrients. One run of AN cost me over $900 and the plants looked burnt and crispy by the end at half strength, lol
But I have gotten yields as low as 0.66 gpw with SSHaze & mendo purps back in the day.
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Growmau5
Well-Known Member
The ideal cree holder and associated adapter for the 3590 only requires 2 screws total for holder and adapter. It is much better than their 3070 design, requiring 4 screw holes.
@EfficientWatt no worries mate, this is good stuff.
@EfficientWatt no worries mate, this is good stuff.
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Have you put the 3590, ideal, and adapter together and everything sits flush?
I understand that the holes for the adapter and the holder are the same spacing, unlike their other holders, but the spec sheet states 4 total holes. 2 for the holder and 2 for the adapter. At 83* from the holder holes. I also have seen the pic on kingbrite that has them in the same spot, but not what ideal is saying or has told be in conversations. But if it can be "gotten away" with...it's worth it.
TE makes adapters for ledil, but the holders for the 30xx and 35xx line arne adapter compatible yet. But a nice clean look and only 2 holes when using the adapter.
BJB is all in one. They are working a deal with major distributor, so availability should improve.
Looks do matter. Not make or break...but when thinking of a publically available product they matter. Specially thinking of one that's original intentions are for human lighting where ascetics are at a premium. And even in our world, looks matter when getting a light. If using reflectors, ideals gets hidden, but have to deal with more labor of the adapter. Then with lenses...just magnifies their ugly. Many things that don't actually matter, matter to someone. But this particular matter, is not totally superficial. The push in connector of ideal block light. Small, but happens. Other aesthetically pleasing holders actually help in addition to aesthetics...they all have low profile reflectors. And it will give a few µmol bump in the meter. As small and negligible as it is, shows their are better alternatives. Plus the less labor mounting. So that is my stance on ideal, and looks is apart of it.
EDIT:
Adapter spec sheet...
http://www.idealind.com/media/pdfs/products/specsheets/Reflector_Adaptor_SpecSheet.pdf
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bicit
Well-Known Member
Do you know if BJB has any plans to make a 35xx line of holders?
fully understand everything your saying and agree with most. I don't have any experience yet with the ideal adapters. but isn't 4 holes better than 2 for mounting large cobs, especially if they are equally spaced around the cob ? even pressure all around for a better contact to the heatsink?
Take note that vero18s come with 2 mounting holes while the Vero29 has 4 mounting holes.
EfficientWatt
Well-Known Member
Nope, because there are only 2 real connections between holder and HS.
2 are for the holder, and 2 get the connector on, but don't really "help" the holder so to speak in any way.
2 are for the holder, and 2 get the connector on, but don't really "help" the holder so to speak in any way.
robincnn
Well-Known Member
@bicit I was discussing the diffuser with Pos earlier here
https://www.rollitup.org/t/led-build-2-heatsink-200w.869479/page-5#post-11651638
I recently retested with a better thermocouple. Vero 29 at 2amps Tc was 48C and went upto 52C after i put the diffuser on. Not too bad. I did notice 7%-9% decrease in PPF due to diffuser losses. They offer some protection to LES but at a 7-9% cost.
Just got a King bright 120 and 80 degree 100mm lens. The 120 degree lens is flat at bottom, not sure if it will fit on top of cob.
I always thought of getting bigger heatsinks, more surface area for cooler operation but they do get heavy. Specially long bars.
I have not seen any big pin fin heatsinks. There are also flared pin designs. I assume it would be expensive to make a long pin type heatsink with cold forging. Extruded bars seems cheapest choice.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/led-build-2-heatsink-200w.869479/page-5#post-11651638
I recently retested with a better thermocouple. Vero 29 at 2amps Tc was 48C and went upto 52C after i put the diffuser on. Not too bad. I did notice 7%-9% decrease in PPF due to diffuser losses. They offer some protection to LES but at a 7-9% cost.
Just got a King bright 120 and 80 degree 100mm lens. The 120 degree lens is flat at bottom, not sure if it will fit on top of cob.
I always thought of getting bigger heatsinks, more surface area for cooler operation but they do get heavy. Specially long bars.
I have not seen any big pin fin heatsinks. There are also flared pin designs. I assume it would be expensive to make a long pin type heatsink with cold forging. Extruded bars seems cheapest choice.
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The kingbrites are glass lenses are 97% transmittance. I just got a few of the 120 deg lens to play with, seems it will fit a cob ok. the lens holder raises it up a wee bit.
anybody kmow where we can get something similar to the 120 degree glass lens in ultra-clear silica ? I picked up some from ledil, but their silica lens are not ultra clear (93% transmittance).
silvrsurfer77
Well-Known Member
Since the ground wire coming from the driver is connected to the AC - in ground, does it really matter if the heatsink and cover are grounded because of direct contact with eachother ? ......Its already grounded from the connection to the AC ground....no need to ground 2x ?