Manganese Deficiency?

So tomorrow will be week 5 of my flip into 12/12 and I am having trouble diagnosing what is wrong with my 2 strawberry cough clones.

Checking PH Usually around 5.8-6.4.
Soil is FFoF with a bit of their basic planting soil throw in (3:1 FFoF to Top Soil)
Using Fox Farms Tiger bloom, bembe, and big bloom with epsom salt and some molasses.
I usually feed 1 day, wait 2, water 1, wait 2, feed 1. ETC,
Room temps get up to about 80 but stay closer to 77-78 throughout the day with RH around 45-50%
I upped the Epsom salt on my last feed and the first day, they looked very happy, looked like the top leaves on the bud sites were getting darker and the next it appeared worse.

Here are some photos of the issues I am having.

its not manganese

its likely magnesium and or calcium def or lock out

your nutes are mostly bloom and im betting theres a lot of K in them

adding Epsom salt alone might not fix the issue if your nutes are out causing the magnesium to lock out

for now

water with only water and 1/2 tsp of Epsom salt per gallon

tell me what the 3 npk numbers are on the big bloom and the bembe

I also need the calcium and magnesium and iron % amounts for each bottle to figure out whats wrong with your mix

not sure youll need it yet but do you have calmag?

looks like calcium.

theres something off between the potassium , calcium , magnesium cation

likely to much K locking out magnesium and calcium, my guess!

its impossible to know for sure without the nute info to see how much is in the base products for each of the 3

im4satori said:

theres something off between the potassium , calcium , magnesium cation

likely to much K locking out magnesium and calcium, my guess!

its impossible to know for sure without the nute info to see how much is in the base products for each of the 3

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I'll get that this evening. I have been spammed with work the last 2 days. Just got off and had time to check RIU and saw the notifications.

I can already tell you based on the products your using the fert ratios are out of balance

I can run the numbers to confirm but im pretty sure of it

you should choose a balanced fertilizer

do you have general hydropincs gear available to you?

the 3 part with calmag and epsom salt or the flora nova/grow 1 part with calmag and Epsom salt are good

maxigrow/bloom with calmag and Epsom also works well

"you should choose a balanced fertilizer."
satori, this is the only smart thing I've seen from you. Everything else is junk. If you have to use words in this forum "that's my guess," and similar terms no one should ever trust what you have to say.
What's going on with these plants is over phosphorus poisoning. What satori should be asking is, why are you giving ferts to a potting soil that already has ferts, and why are you using so much bloom fert? Because this grower doesn't know what he's doing and the plants are slowly showing that fact. No offense intended, but everyone has to learn one way or the other and sometimes we learn from making mistakes. Foxfarm OF is capable of sustaining plants for quite some time, perhaps an entire grow. You just need to ensure your pot is big enough to provide enough nutrients for the duration. satori focuses on fert % but knowing that is irrelevant if you can't diagnose the problem right. You don't want your doctor giving you radiation treatments when you only need an antibiotic. satori, if you're the experienced grower you want people to believe, you need to change how you look at these problems. (and calmag has mag in it already; you don't need to add more).

polishpollack said:

"you should choose a balanced fertilizer."
satori, this is the only smart thing I've seen from you. Everything else is junk. If you have to use words in this forum "that's my guess," and similar terms no one should ever trust what you have to say.
What's going on with these plants is over phosphorus poisoning. What satori should be asking is, why are you giving ferts to a potting soil that already has ferts, and why are you using so much bloom fert? Because this grower doesn't know what he's doing and the plants are slowly showing that fact. No offense intended, but everyone has to learn one way or the other and sometimes we learn from making mistakes. Foxfarm OF is capable of sustaining plants for quite some time, perhaps an entire grow. You just need to ensure your pot is big enough to provide enough nutrients for the duration. satori focuses on fert % but knowing that is irrelevant if you can't diagnose the problem right. You don't want your doctor giving you radiation treatments when you only need an antibiotic. satori, if you're the experienced grower you want people to believe, you need to change how you look at these problems. (and calmag has mag in it already; you don't need to add more).

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here we go again

you just wanna follow me around and every time you do you just make an ass of yourself

over and over

should I link all the post together again with all your stupid comments

a guy whos got no journal and not a single pic of his personal grow... ever!

aqnd as of a few weeks ago didn't know the difference between EC and PPM

give me a break and go get a life

That response doesn't apply to what I said. Prove that you're right about the problems in this thread. Or please admit that you don't know what you're saying. The issue is, what is the problem and what does the grower do about it. Don't come to threads with things like "I'm guessing" and "well maybe it's this." Your guesses don't help.
I'm not following you around. You post so much crap that it can't be ignored. You should stop. If you'll notice, I told the poster what their problem actually is while you try to tell everyone how wrong I am. Maybe even you agree that I'm right after all. Prove that the problem is magnesium or calcium or whatever your favorite flavor is today. That's all I want you to do. Convince me that you're right. You should have known that this is too much phosphorus, but you like magnesium and calcium and potassium even though you really have no clue what you're saying. When you use words like "I'm guessing" you're really just admitting that you don't know what the answer is.

while using quality nutrients I've never been able to repair an issue by adding anything in flower for a successful finish, except water.
no matter how much of anything you add those ill leaves will die

chemphlegm said:

while using quality nutrients I've never been able to repair an issue by adding anything in flower for a successful finish, except water.
no matter how much of anything you add those ill leaves will die

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Her is a scenario I was in a few years ago.
7 foot sativas in 3 gallon pots of ffof, I have pics but will minimize changing the topic from the OP's thread. 5 weeks into flowering in ffof with 9 weeks to go.
I didn't feed the soil properly and I'm guessing it was depleted.
It was a nice yield of 7.5 oz / plant of low quality weed as I did not have a good grow, it was my 1st time with sativas.
During the middle of flowering I went with the GH trio to get through to the end.
You may not end up in this situation but if someone was would you still go water only at that stage?
Maybe a better move would have been to pot up at 5 weeks into flowering allowing it to get nutrition from the new soil?
Sorry OP, just curious of what chemphlegm's response is and will let them get back to your problem.

Magnesium sulfate (epsom) reacts with calcium to form calcium sulfate, which is practically insoluble. In other words, it locks up calcium. Since you only feed once a week or so there probably wasn't much calcium in there to spare so a deficiency was produced. That's my guess anyway. Epsom can be used but you gotta be careful with it.

Buba Blend said:

Her is a scenario I was in a few years ago.
7 foot sativas in 3 gallon pots of ffof, I have pics but will minimize changing the topic from the OP's thread. 5 weeks into flowering in ffof with 9 weeks to go.
I didn't feed the soil properly and I'm guessing it was depleted.
It was a nice yield of 7.5 oz / plant of low quality weed as I did not have a good grow, it was my 1st time with sativas.
During the middle of flowering I went with the GH trio to get through to the end.
You may not end up in this situation but if someone was would you still go water only at that stage?
Maybe a better move would have been to pot up at 5 weeks into flowering allowing it to get nutrition from the new soil?
Sorry OP, just curious of what chemphlegm's response is and will let them get back to your problem.

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Nice first sativa cherry though!. I messed up plenty myself. learned exactly how to feed all my other hybrids and that wont cut it with my sativas, which I struggle with to date.
when I mention water in no way did I mean to say water only=as its understood here=. I've never been able to mix a soil, using any recipe here, that would support my flowering plant by itself with a "water only " approach. Sure they looked nice but expressions were minimal=for reference.
what I mean to say is if I was using a quality fertilizer program(organic for example) and something went wrong- I was never able to correct that wrong by adding anything, no chems, no teas, no more nutes, even when I saw a supposed deficiency of X, adding X did nothing to help ever. The only thing that made things right again was water, then back to normal quality feed(which would contain all necessary plant nutrients)

In foxfarm I would have changed up too in flower, to more organic amendments like chicken shit and worm castings, frass, tea as soon as i saw the fox farms starving my soils, and I have done exactly that before firing ffof for good. I've totally failed when changing up from a soil build to a chem finish in flower, but have success with a chem veg and soil finish(promix/chicken poop/water only)

Could take some epsom salt and mix it with some calcium nitrate and the calcium sulfate would precipitate out leaving magnesium nitrate in solution. Plants would get both mag and nitrogen from it. Mag nitrate is used in some hydro nutes so it's nothing that hasn't been tried before. Calcium nitrate isn't too hard to find. Some hydro stores would have it.

Could also mix the precipitated calcium sulfate into the soil as a slow release source of calcium and sulfate, so you could get use from it. It's soluble, just only slightly, so it would be gradually released over months. You'd probably have to keep it wet until use though, because if it gets dry and you mixed it with moist soil or water it might form chunks of basically plaster of Paris, like chunks of drywall.

bobcajun, you should stop posting in this forum as it's clear you have no understanding of what you're saying. You're learning the buzz words that are frequent here, "precipitate," and "locks up," and "deficiency." These words mean nothing if you're wrong. Any substance precipitated out of soil is going to be useless. The grower is 5 weeks into flower and can't wait months for a solution. The idea of deficiency in this grow isn't accurate. If you'll read the first post you'll see how much fertilizer is in the soil. Too much. You don't want calcium to precipitate out, for whatever reason using whatever methods. The fact that too much phosphorus has been given (because for some reason the grower thought this would be good), far outweighs the effect of calcium or magnesium or Sulphur, or any other "deficiency" you people like to discuss. At least you're not hanging onto the idea of pH like what took place years ago. 10 years ago, people in online forums were always saying "dude, check your pH" all the time. It is fertilizer content that drives pH. Adjusting pH in soil is a waste of time. If you put too much fert in your soil, it will drive your pH down and you must get the excess fert out rather than adjust pH. The only real solution is to avoid using too much fert to begin with. Foxfarm soil already has fert in it. You probably don't need to add any more. Read the labels, email the company, and find out how to properly use their products. Following the instructions is what you want to do.

douche bag say what?

polishpollack said:

That response doesn't apply to what I said. Prove that you're right about the problems in this thread. Or please admit that you don't know what you're saying. The issue is, what is the problem and what does the grower do about it. Don't come to threads with things like "I'm guessing" and "well maybe it's this." Your guesses don't help.
I'm not following you around. You post so much crap that it can't be ignored. You should stop. If you'll notice, I told the poster what their problem actually is while you try to tell everyone how wrong I am. Maybe even you agree that I'm right after all. Prove that the problem is magnesium or calcium or whatever your favorite flavor is today. That's all I want you to do. Convince me that you're right. You should have known that this is too much phosphorus, but you like magnesium and calcium and potassium even though you really have no clue what you're saying. When you use words like "I'm guessing" you're really just admitting that you don't know what the answer is.

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Kiss it, it meaning my butthole.

polish thinks hes the king of the round table standing guard over his territory

sitting tall on his white horse looking down on the little people

saying things like
"you should get of this forum" as if he has any right to say such a thing

the irony is his attacks or accusations of others seem to mostly reflect who he is, which shows thru if you spend 5 minutes looking at his posting history

polish you should climb down off your high horse sir!

That old buzz word "deficiency" yeah ok.

I wouldn't take much notice of PP, I have seen him tell hydro and coco growers that monitoring PH is over rated, not important and watched in horror as he's told a hydro guy his half dead plants were looking good.

Epsom salt is not only a nutrient, it cleans the medium of excess salts and restores balance. It is used secretly they dont tell you the ingredients, it is a leaching agent, it grabs and pulls salts away. This is one ingredient some manufacturers use as leaching agent, and charge you 1000x more than regular ole epsom salts.

Do what Satori said in his first post.