Making propylene glycol / vegetable glycerin tinctures for e cigs

wired604 said:

It looks nice! Growgodess thanks for the insight, I'm not confortable doing RSO or BHO.
I wish I had the proper equipment to do it or know someone who I could buy it off...

So out of my 2 test I cant tell which is best
Alone none, VG is too thick and clog the e-cig, PG hurts throat and barely produce vapor...
Solutions :: I's best to do the extract in both and combine them around a 70 % PG / 30 % VG.
I tend to dislike PG some people are allergic, I'm getting some headache if I vape too many e-juice. So I also tested pure VG with distilled water. Right now my mix is about 75% VG and 25 % DW it works great.
Now about potency, I think it works ok it's just not instant. I take about 5-15 minutes to feel how I feel after having taken 1 bag of my vapir rise vaporiser ( volcano competitor ).

What I love about all this is that I use my fresh plants in the vapir rise, do 1 to 3 bags, which does mean 3 instant high sessions, then used the vaporised product to make my PG/VG oils.

It's amazing how much less product I use and how many time I can re-use it!

So when I'm done doing the extract, I actually keep the plant material adding a 1,l to 1 gram ratio of Vg or PG ex: 10g of plants I would add 10ml back into the resulting plant material) to do snowball and proceed to a cold extraction process while I wait to need more oil.
I heard this was key to achieve maximum potency. Source: Glycerin Extraction Skunk Pharm Research LLC

Ill repost in January/February with my update in potency. I need to finish the 30 ml of product I already have made

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I experience the same harshness that you described with PG USP, but that was only with certain brands of e-cigarette oils. I use my e-cigg a lot and it does effect my throat some, not bad, but I do know what you are talking about. I have never once experienced the harshness with any of my e-cannabis mixtures. It is almost as if the cannabis oil coats the throat. In the SVD iClear30 I can't taste any PG USP at all. I only taste ganja. The QWISO is smoother than the RSO, but has less flavor. The QWISO, one or two baby hits and I pretty much feel the buzz instantly. With the RSO it may take a few minutes to hit me. Not sure which I like better yet.

In my opinion VG for e-cannabis is no good. It doesn't mix well, does not help anything vaporize, all it seems to do is dilute the oil, if you can even get it to mix. I haven't been able to get it to mix properly with VG. After my success with the methods I am using, I really have no interest in even trying to get the VG to work.

Every patient that has sampled my vaporizers have all said the same thing; it's the whoop and the best they have ever had.

So QWISO works the fastest.
I'm gonna look into doing QWISO if it's the fastest to feel the effect, I think that's what I need.
I bet it's as complex as RSO or BHO tho... or use any special tools. I like my condo, I dont want it to explode

But for the moment I have a bunch of PG tincture with a bunch of VG tincture I mix them and it works it's just slow, considering I already did 2 bags with the product before making tincture with it. I still think the overall process is enjoyable and valuable.
I'd really like to have one that works fast so I may end up trying RSO depending on what I find on QWISO.

Your blog show a method using RSO, What do you do for QWISO?

Thanks!

Grow Goddess said:

The QWISO, one or two baby hits and I pretty much feel the buzz instantly....

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Ok, I found this, it seems totally safe (no heat involved)
http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/23612-tutorial-do-it-yourself-qwiso-hash/

Let me know if you vouch for this method!

Thanks!

wired604 said:

So QWISO works the fastest.
I'm gonna look into doing QWISO if it's the fastest to feel the effect, I think that's what I need.
I bet it's as complex as RSO or BHO tho... or use any special tools. I like my condo, I dont want it to explode

But for the moment I have a bunch of PG tincture with a bunch of VG tincture I mix them and it works it's just slow, considering I already did 2 bags with the product before making tincture with it. I still think the overall process is enjoyable and valuable.
I'd really like to have one that works fast so I may end up trying RSO depending on what I find on QWISO.

Your blog show a method using RSO, What do you do for QWISO?

Thanks!

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Which blog? Here is my vaporizing blog: http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/blog/532/entry-1026-my-experience-with-portable-vaporizers-pen-vaporizers-for-concentrated-cannabis-oil-and-e-cigarette-oil/#commentsStart

I started off with RSO. I just recently began adding information about QWISO. I have only made QWISO one time so far. I have tried what you mention with the VG and all that. It is inefficient, low grade, unreliable, you know what I mean. QWISO with just PG USP will make all the difference that you are looking for. Just freeze the bone dry buds in a jar and also put whatever solvent you choose in the freezer. I recommend 99% isopropyl alcohol or 190 proof Everclear. Have them in the freezer for a good 48 hours if not longer. Start off with just 1/2 oz of good bud for you first QWISO run.

Just follow the extraction methods in my journal here at RIU. https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog30912-how-i-make-rso-concentrated.html

When you have the extraction in the glass pan, just have it in a room with windows open and a fan blowing on it. Some people put it in an unused bathroom with the exhaust fan running and a fan blowing across the solvent. I just did it in my kitchen with a couple of windows open. It was only 1/2 oz of bud that I used so there really was not a lot of solvent to evaporate. You could smell it a little, but it was not too bothersome. Obviously it is not healthy to be breathing those fumes when using 99% isopropyl so open a window or two.

When it got to be a thick liquid, like tar, I just let it air out for a few days with a coffee filter over it so it would not collect any dust. Then I warmed it up on a coffee mug warmer to where it got runny, removed it from the heat and added the PG USP, stirred it well. Put it back on the heat and be sure it mixed well without overheating it. Suck it up into a 1CC syringe and inject it into your e-cigg, preferably an iClear16 or iClear30 depending on what type of battery you are using. Then enjoy!

I have not had any feedback from anyone using bubble hash as the concentrate mixed with the PG USP yet, I am sure it will work.

I really like the QWISO in an e-cigarette. It is better than smoking any buds I have buzz wise.

Grow Goddess said:

To make this QWISO, I did a frozen extraction, used 99% isopropyl alcohol, no heat, just fans blowing on it. I will surely make more, I like it.

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I should have read that properly

Ok thanks alot
I really appreciate the extra details with how you mixed it back with PG.
So about 30% PG and 70% QWISO? for final mix?
my e-cig tank are CE5, I think they are the same as yours but from a different brand
http://www.sun-vapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/CE4-Closeup.jpg

I wonder if the OHM will change something... mine are 2.4...

hey Grow Goddess
, good info, thanks! just one question, how much does your clearomizer lasts using pg tinctures? how much time does it tastes good?

Depends on how often you hit it!


im gonna roughly estimate that 2ml of juice lasts me about 1.5 weeks. With decent daily usage..

Arrgh!
I have a big problem
I cant find iso propyl 99% around at decent price
What I found was 180$ for 4L, which is too much and too expensive for a test run, I'm looking to get my hands on 191 proof alcohol and that does not seem to be easy either.
Grow Goddess, you referred to some supplier, but I'm in Canada, east coast, it seems to be a problem.
I emailed a few places, I'm scared to use ebay in case the import gets stucks at customs and never get delivered or worse start an investigation on my self cause I ordered the product in the first place...
If you have any suggestion let me know... I'm even considering getting a brewery kit and some corn.... at this point

I have successfully made my first e-cannabis oil using the info Grow Goddess has posted both here on RIU and on the MMM blogs. Without her hard work this wouldn't have been possible for me, so HUGE shout out to her!

wired604 said:

Ok thanks alot
I really appreciate the extra details with how you mixed it back with PG.
So about 30% PG and 70% QWISO? for final mix?
my e-cig tank are CE5, I think they are the same as yours but from a different brand
http://www.sun-vapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/CE4-Closeup.jpg

I wonder if the OHM will change something... mine are 2.4...

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It looks similar. Mine has 510 threads with dual heating elements. It is 2-2.1 ohm. The iClear16.

Is the one in the link a 510 thread or eGo thread or some form of G-Pen thread? Do you know if it is a dual coil? Hard to tell from the picture. I haven't tried the one in the picture. I have tried many different ones.

The PG/QWISO mix is based a lot on personal preference. Also, it depends upon how thick your oil is. I usually mix in the PG USP to where the mixture is like a thick engine oil. If that is too thick you can always pour it out and mix in some more PG USP. Still, there is the personal preference factor.

sitripeo said:

hey Grow Goddess
, good info, thanks! just one question, how much does your clearomizer lasts using pg tinctures? how much time does it tastes good?

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Thank you.

About 2 or 3 mL through the clearomizer. Then I take it apart and clean it. The iClear16 and iClear30 are each rebuildable. For less than $3 you can screw on a new heating coil with new wicks. At first I was cleaning it twice then replacing the heating element. Lately I have been replacing the heating element each time I clean it. When it is all clean, brand new, with fresh oil, it just tastes sooooo goooodd. It is worth wasting a little oil and the $3 and replacing the element.

Now the iClear30 I use on the SVD. I clean that one about every 3-5mL. That one does give a better hit. My patients with lung issues prefer the pen. My patients that like to take nice big hits like the SVD better. They are both a must in my book.

For a pen I use the eGo C Twist 650 battery.

wired604 said:

Arrgh!
I have a big problem
I cant find iso propyl 99% around at decent price
What I found was 180$ for 4L, which is too much and too expensive for a test run, I'm looking to get my hands on 191 proof alcohol and that does not seem to be easy either.
Grow Goddess, you referred to some supplier, but I'm in Canada, east coast, it seems to be a problem.
I emailed a few places, I'm scared to use ebay in case the import gets stucks at customs and never get delivered or worse start an investigation on my self cause I ordered the product in the first place...
If you have any suggestion let me know... I'm even considering getting a brewery kit and some corn.... at this point

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You can use the 191 proof alcohol. If you can't get the 99% iso, you can use the 190 proof or stronger grain alcohol. The only thing I don't care for with the grain alcohol is when the oil is done there is still some water left from the grain alcohol. If I could get 200 proof grain alcohol, I think that would be my preferred solvent or an organic alcohol. One of the good things about the 190 proof grain alcohol is that when I made my latest batch of QWISO it did not stink up the house as much as the 99% iso. It seemed a bit safer in more than one way.

Have you checked with your local pharmacy to see if they will order the 99% iso? Some will. A lot of people like to use it as a degreaser. If you feel you need to give them an explanation.

Hi!
Thanks for the support.
I did check with the pharmacy, they didn't had any and couldn't order it.
So I continued checking. We have liquor store here, some are specialized and have more refined product.
I found grain alcohol at 94% pure. I understand it will leave a trace of water but since I already plan on mixing with PG, I dont think that 6% of water will be an issue, I think it's 6% of PG that will not be in the mix!
So my bottle is in the freezer, my product is always in the freezer (better safe keeping).
So tomorrow is extraction time, I plan on making between 7 to 14 g depending on amount of flat surface I can isolate.
I also intend on using some kief, would you suggest that? I assume it would have a much higher ratio of canaboids. When I look at it in the microscope it defenitly shows more concentrate than buds!

If I use keif, what ratio of product to alcohol should I use?

Ok!
I did a batch of QWISO just now, I used 10g of buds.
I did a 1 wash, I got 2 lasagna platter with very low amount of alcohol in each.After filtering once, I poured in one bowl. Then I filtered the rest of the alcohol a 2nd time and poured it in the 2nd bowl
The one that is single filtered seems to have some few particles left in it... That's why I decided to filter the balance a 2nd time.
I used a coffee filter and cheesecloth for filtering.
I placed in a dark room with a windblower.
Ill get back to you tomorrow or Saturday for the results!

Hey there wired604 sounds like you have a good plan.

For my very first time I just made some with grain alcohol. I am very impressed. The water is mostly an inconvenience. It evaporates later than the alcohol to where you have some white foam around that still needs to evaporate. I am not going to make mine the typical QWISO method anymore when using grain alcohol, that is a bit too inconvenient for me. Also, not necessary when it comes to vaporizing in my opinion. Especially when using grain or organic alcohol. From now on, when making QWISO type oil I will use grain or organic alcohol when I make it for vaporizing. Yes, it is a bit more expensive than the 99% iso for me, but it is so much more safe and convenient. The stink in the house is almost unbearable when I use the iso. I don't really have a spare room that I can close off to evaporate in. Either way, I consume a lot more of it compared to my RSO and it makes me feel better knowing that it is only grain alcohol, of course except for the PG USP.

I had a couple extra premium ounces of blueberry jam available. I made the QWISO with 190 Everclear. However, I purged it like I do when I make RSO (coffee cup warmer stage). For the first time I did it this way. It is only the second time making QWISO style hash. From now on I will only use 190 proof grain or organic alcohol when I make QWISO for vaping. I just feel better about it. Also, I will finish it up with the coffee cup warmer. I am not using mine for dabs or smoking. I am using it for vaporizing in my e-cigarettes. This is the way I like it best and it is by far the most convenient. I will explain in more detail in my journal.

Here are a few pics. I took them with my phone camera and the flash on the phone does not do the image justice. It is much more transparent and pure gold looking in real life. I can't imagine what it would look like if I used my preferred strains and only do a single or double rinse. I ended up mixing the QWISO about 50/50 with PG USP. Since I used the coffee cup warmer this round I do notice there is more flavor. I like it a lot. I was jaw dropped on how clear the oil made with BBJ looked.

I am really liking the oil made with 190 Everclear, a gentle RSO style purge for vaporizing purposes.

I'm totally baked!! A happy camper indeed!

Grow Goddess said:

Hey there wired604 sounds like you have a good plan.

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Thanks!
I learned from you

About the white foam, I was just gonna ask. it's almost just whats left.
It feels like almost ready to scrape out but I think I should wait until tomorrow just to make sure all the alcohol is gone.
I know it's safer cause I'm using organic but ill be patient. I'll use my volcano clone for the evening, hehehe.

I got a pic of my stuff at the moment, it's 5 hours in the process.
I cant wait to put it in my e-cig, I have to atleast fill 2 clearo. One with just the 40% QWISO and 60% PG, one with 40% QWISO 30% PG and 30% Choco flavor(ok maybe less but you get the idea)
I think this is going to be amazing!

On the down side, my cat got into a fight with his brother, yeah they were playing king of the hill in my christmas three....
He fell and dislocated his hip. He's staying over night at the cat hospital, getting patched up... Unfortunate incident.

I hope my QWISO make me forget the bill!
(I'm disappointed they dont have a vaporizing emoticon)

the white liquid is water with oil droplets in it. it will dry out just takes a little longer than the alcohol.

to be more precise, its alchohol and water mixed with oil disolved in it. the alcohol evaporates faster than the water. when the % of alcohol gets too low to disolve the oil, the oil crystallizes out of solution into tiny droplets. you want it dry as there is still alcohol in the water.

Alright
Scraping is done, I had a little less than 1 grams after scraping
I'm sure I still have some inside the bowl. I kept it a side for next run, not sure if it's a wise idea. I was hoping some one had a great idea to remove the remaining.
I used a hardware razor blade to scrape.

I'm glad my stuff was very bright gold with small green tint.
I added the propylene, right now my mix is the 1gram (no idea in ml) + 3.5 ml of PG USP.
I'm not sure if I need to put more PG, I think I do because the hash doesnt seem entirely dissolved in the PG. ill wait a bit more keeping the heating low and control (about 170 F)

Let me know your thoughts!