Niblixdark
Well-Known Member
Sm90 and a 3 part. Keep it simple.
It works ...
It works ...
Local (tap) water quality and its contents for DWC
- Thread starter Prismo
- Start date
EveryBlueMoon
Active Member
It's aight bro, I ordered hydroguard last night along with 2 LED bulbs to play with. Nothing special just want to see how performance goes with some 460nm light during bloom. It's supposed to reduce the stretch associated with light flip... Also a bit of red during veg is supposed to be good too although I don't remember exactly what it does lol...
It makes sense to me that the 460nm light which is sky blue should help prevent stretch.
FennarioMike
Well-Known Member
So, conductivity, TDS and PPM meters all measure the same thing but express the readings in different ways and it's important to know a) what scale your meter is reading and b) what scale your expected measurement to be in. Conductivity is usually expressed in uMhos/cm, uS/cm or EC. TDS reads in ppm but at the 500 scale. PPM meters usually read in the 700. Some meters will do all 3 and you set which one you want it to display. A bit confusing - but here's a conversion chart so you can see what all the #'s look like:
https://www.bluelab.com/knowledge-base-files/Conductivity-Conversion-Chart
Sorry, I have been somewhat inactive here. Was caught up in setting up everything. I've planted my seedlings in the rockwool yesterday. Now the waiting time begins.
Well, there's no nice way of saying this, but the information you wrote there was already well known to me. My meter reads PPM and EC incl. temperature.
By the way, the pH rose by about 0.7-0.8 overnight. I know the pH fluctuates and I also know that it absolutely needs to. What would you recommend setting it to when changing the water? I heard 5.5-5.8 is correct, so it can fluctuate to about 6.3-6.5?
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
i start at 5.5 and let it rise to 6.1 then re-adjust.
if your pH starts to drop, that's is usually a sign of a problem FYI
So it should only rise (substantially if you just changed your water) and then not drop at all or just drop by minimal amounts (fluctuate) ?
I've just readjusted the pH from 6.2 to about 5.9. I'll test again tomorrow when the lights go on.
By the way, how long will the "industrial" smell of the air from the air pump last? I can smell it every time I open the lid of the buckets.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
High Prismo
I'm a little late to the thread but read thru it all to be able to grok it.
At 200ppm your water isn't bad tho alkalinity is an issue. I only use RO water that is <10ppm and can grow DWC from clone to harvest without ever changing nutes tho a change after the stretch is my usual mode.
I use pH Perfect nutes so never worry about pH and concentrate on keeping my ppm in my target range. 300 for fresh clones, 500 after some decent root and leaf growth then up to 1000 or so for vigorous vegging plants. Maybe 1200 going into the stretch then gradually tapering off later in flower.
Keep track of how much water you use for top-ups and once you have added back as much as your system/tote holds do a fresh change and you'll not have problems with your tap water. I would get your pH under control by using a container with an airstone going and using pH down carefully get it down to around 5.5 and have it hold steady there for a day. When there are lots of carbonates in the water the pH will show low right after adding pH down but climb back up as the acid is exhausted as free carbonates are slow to react then more are freed that raises the pH again until are are reacted. Keep track of how much pH down you use then you'll know how much to add to that volume of water to get the right pH and it should be steady in 24 hours. Be aware that many city water supplies change pH and alkaline load depending on the season. Generally becoming less hard during the rainy season and much harder in times of drought or dry weather.
I never use beneficial bacteria either and use a DIY chiller to keep my nutes around 65F. A wrap of white wall insulation helps keep room heat out and steady temps in.
Good luck with yours!
I'm a little late to the thread but read thru it all to be able to grok it.
At 200ppm your water isn't bad tho alkalinity is an issue. I only use RO water that is <10ppm and can grow DWC from clone to harvest without ever changing nutes tho a change after the stretch is my usual mode.
I use pH Perfect nutes so never worry about pH and concentrate on keeping my ppm in my target range. 300 for fresh clones, 500 after some decent root and leaf growth then up to 1000 or so for vigorous vegging plants. Maybe 1200 going into the stretch then gradually tapering off later in flower.
Keep track of how much water you use for top-ups and once you have added back as much as your system/tote holds do a fresh change and you'll not have problems with your tap water. I would get your pH under control by using a container with an airstone going and using pH down carefully get it down to around 5.5 and have it hold steady there for a day. When there are lots of carbonates in the water the pH will show low right after adding pH down but climb back up as the acid is exhausted as free carbonates are slow to react then more are freed that raises the pH again until are are reacted. Keep track of how much pH down you use then you'll know how much to add to that volume of water to get the right pH and it should be steady in 24 hours. Be aware that many city water supplies change pH and alkaline load depending on the season. Generally becoming less hard during the rainy season and much harder in times of drought or dry weather.
I never use beneficial bacteria either and use a DIY chiller to keep my nutes around 65F. A wrap of white wall insulation helps keep room heat out and steady temps in.
Good luck with yours!
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
let's say you set at 5.5 it should slowly go up . and your ppms/EC should slowly go down in a perfect world.
what i've noticed is if your pH goes down, that's a problem: root rot, too strong nutes, etc.
kinda like a tire burning?? probably just the diaphragm breaking in. should go away fairly soon
Well, they say better late than never, amirite?High Prismo
I'm a little late to the thread but read thru it all to be able to grok it.
At 200ppm your water isn't bad tho alkalinity is an issue. I only use RO water that is <10ppm and can grow DWC from clone to harvest without ever changing nutes tho a change after the stretch is my usual mode.
I use pH Perfect nutes so never worry about pH and concentrate on keeping my ppm in my target range. 300 for fresh clones, 500 after some decent root and leaf growth then up to 1000 or so for vigorous vegging plants. Maybe 1200 going into the stretch then gradually tapering off later in flower.
Keep track of how much water you use for top-ups and once you have added back as much as your system/tote holds do a fresh change and you'll not have problems with your tap water. I would get your pH under control by using a container with an airstone going and using pH down carefully get it down to around 5.5 and have it hold steady there for a day. When there are lots of carbonates in the water the pH will show low right after adding pH down but climb back up as the acid is exhausted as free carbonates are slow to react then more are freed that raises the pH again until are are reacted. Keep track of how much pH down you use then you'll know how much to add to that volume of water to get the right pH and it should be steady in 24 hours. Be aware that many city water supplies change pH and alkaline load depending on the season. Generally becoming less hard during the rainy season and much harder in times of drought or dry weather.
I never use beneficial bacteria either and use a DIY chiller to keep my nutes around 65F. A wrap of white wall insulation helps keep room heat out and steady temps in.
View attachment 4030172
Good luck with yours!
Thanks for the information on the carbonates, that was indeed very helpful and now I understand the pH climb after changing the water. Seeing that my tap water is almost "medium" and according to the tap water analysis, it has more than average amounts of carbonates indeed. I can also see this in the pH climb with fresh water that I have to adjust 1 or 2 more times to land at a steady ~6.0. Drains my pH down right now, damn...
So I can just add the total amount of pH down right after changing the water, even if the pH momentarily drops (way) below 5.5 ?
As for my ppm, I used a little less than 1/4 of the nutrient dosage for the sprout that is showing right now, roots haven't yet reached the bubbleponics tubing in the net pot. My water already has a little bit below 200 ppm out of the tap and with the hydroguard and the nutes, it reaches about 300. Should be fine for first week(s), right? I'll adapt if deficiencies occur.
Your insulating solution looks very interesting and probably also very cheap compared to a "real" chiller. I'll definitely look into that, because water temperatures is a problem now, right at the start when the lights went on for the first time. My water temperature rose to 80F overnight. I know this is a problem, even with using hydroguard, there probably won't be enough dissolved oxygen left in the water. At least I have a decent air compressor that pumps 60L of air per minute to round 13cm airstone plates in each of the 2 buckets. It looks quite nice in there. This air compressor is running really warm as expected, but I have now connected the air intake of the pump to the fresh air intake of the room. I'll need to see if temperatures drop. I will also connect the actual air intakes of the room even further as close to the window as I can. I have a very small room as a buffer for fresh air, but as it seems, it's not enough. The temperature at the top of the net pots where the plants are is at times higher than 90F. So you could say that I have a temperature problem. But as I said, I'll need to see how it goes if I connect the intake to my actual window. I think that should at least lower the values by more than a marginal amount.
Yeah, I'll have to see if at some point my pH will go down instead of up. Let's hope not! I described the pH process of my water in the post above if you want to read that.
As for the smell. Yeah, it is kinda like a rubbery smell. Not exactly scorched tire, but tire nevertheless. I guess you're right about the parts breaking in.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Once you know how much pH down to add to a fixed volume of water and have the pH remain stable then you can add that amount of down to the same volume of water and expect it to drop lower than you want at first but climb back up overnight with bubbling to right around to where you want it. After the first time I wouldn't bother checking the pH until it's had 12 or more hours to stabilize then tweak it a bit if it's not spot on. Keep an eye out tho as tap water can change with the seasons enough to throw things off a bit.
If your water is already 200ppm you have to subtract that from the total to get your nute level. I never use things like hydroguard so don't know how much or if at all it affects ppm but you're sitting at 100ppm or less of actual nutes so I'd add some more nutes to get your total ppm up around 500 or at least 400.
That insulation around the tub is just to help keep the nutes from being affected by the room temp and keep the tub's temp more stable. You have to look closely at the right side of the pic to see the two clear tubes that run to the water cooler tank from the tub. There's a small fountain pump in the bottom of the tub that pumps nutes up to the cooling tank of a water cooler full of antifreeze, through about 15' of tubing coiled up in there and then back to the tub. Works pretty good as I have the cooler on a timer so it runs 15 min out of each hour when the lights are on and 15 min every 2 hours when light are off and I have the adjustment on it dialed as low as it can go. I had the pump on the timer at first and the nutes froze in the tubing when the nutes weren't circulating.
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
i like the Canadian ingenuity but a real Canuck would have Molson on tap on that water chiller too. lol.Once you know how much pH down to add to a fixed volume of water and have the pH remain stable then you can add that amount of down to the same volume of water and expect it to drop lower than you want at first but climb back up overnight with bubbling to right around to where you want it. After the first time I wouldn't bother checking the pH until it's had 12 or more hours to stabilize then tweak it a bit if it's not spot on. Keep an eye out tho as tap water can change with the seasons enough to throw things off a bit.
If your water is already 200ppm you have to subtract that from the total to get your nute level. I never use things like hydroguard so don't know how much or if at all it affects ppm but you're sitting at 100ppm or less of actual nutes so I'd add some more nutes to get your total ppm up around 500 or at least 400.
That insulation around the tub is just to help keep the nutes from being affected by the room temp and keep the tub's temp more stable. You have to look closely at the right side of the pic to see the two clear tubes that run to the water cooler tank from the tub. There's a small fountain pump in the bottom of the tub that pumps nutes up to the cooling tank of a water cooler full of antifreeze, through about 15' of tubing coiled up in there and then back to the tub. Works pretty good as I have the cooler on a timer so it runs 15 min out of each hour when the lights are on and 15 min every 2 hours when light are off and I have the adjustment on it dialed as low as it can go. I had the pump on the timer at first and the nutes froze in the tubing when the nutes weren't circulating.
View attachment 4033199
Budley Doright
Well-Known Member
That's some water cooler if it drops the glycol below freezing 
!
!
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I'm using straight auto antifreeze in the water tank for the 3/8" tubing to sit in and it won't freeze. It was when I had the little nute pump on the timer the nutes in the tubing in contact with the bottom of the tank that froze and plugged up the line when the pump was off. The timer was to regulate the temp in the tub as it would get too cold if it ran steady. So the pump runs steady now and the cooler is on the timer so it doesn't get so cold. Bit of fussing around to get it dialed in but for a total cost of $14 for the fountain pump I don't mind a bit of fuss. The old cooler was gifted and I had lots of 3/8" tubing around from the previous owner of the house.That's some water cooler if it drops the glycol below freezing
I'm going to need to wrap that tubing with electrical tape or something as algae starts growing in the exposed section from the cooler to the tub tho it never caused a problem. The tubing is sitting full of 10% food grade hydrogen peroxide until I need the cooler again in a couple months.
I figure it works good enough I could chill a decent sized rez for an RDWC setup but have other plans for my new grow space once I get that built. 4 air cooled individual tubs using the cool air already in my unheated concrete bunker of a basement.
Added a blanket of white wall insulation around the tank too.
Budley Doright
Well-Known Member
Did you disconnect the tub temp sensor? Doesn't it shut off at 36f? Covering the tubing with arma flex stops build up, yes glycol doesn't freeze lol I was referring to the water lines. I use a glycol underground loop to chill res's when it's cool out and mechanical chiller the rest of the time
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
No sensor in the tub or any automatic controls. I have the adjustment screw on the back of the cooler turned down as far as it will go so maybe there is something wrong with the unit. It is pretty old. By playing around with the timing to turn the cooler on and off I can keep the tub right around 65-68F or go cooler if I want easy enough. Only took a couple days to get that working well.
I have a temp/RH controller to run my exhaust fan with so the climate in the room is nice and steady. I bought the parts to build another one for the new space and an extra cooling thermostat to replace the one in my current controller as it seems to be sticking. The exhaust fan seems to be packing it in so I'll be needing another one of those now too.
I have a temp/RH controller to run my exhaust fan with so the climate in the room is nice and steady. I bought the parts to build another one for the new space and an extra cooling thermostat to replace the one in my current controller as it seems to be sticking. The exhaust fan seems to be packing it in so I'll be needing another one of those now too.