Lets talk stocks

Johnny Retro

Johnny Retro

Well-Known Member
lol never thought i'd see the day when someone on RIU is recommending trading CL. Futures can wipe you out just as fast, if not faster, than penny stocks. Not only can they wipe you out, you can also lose more money than whats in your account. Futures are a risky business for retail traders. You are utilizing margin in a big way. To put on a position in the 10 year note futures you only have to put down $500 in intra day margin and with that you are controlling $100,000 worth of 10 year notes. Scary stuff if you don't know what you're doing and put on a position 5min before unemployment or FOMC and the thing goes 25 ticks the opposite way of your holding. This is coming from someone that trades fixed income futures (the least volatile out of all the products). Its taken me years to become consistently profitable. If you are a "point and click" trader..give it up, that is a losing game unless you are a prodigy or something. Trading these days you NEED to know a high caliber programming language (c++). So unless you're willing to put in 50+ hours a week for years, don't even think about touching futures.

If you want to be a truly successful investor (not trader) read "margin of saftey" by Seth Klarman. Its going for like 2500 on amazon but you can find it on the major torrent sites. Also go look at his hedge funds (baupost) 13f filed every quarter to get an idea of what hes doing. Hes been the top of the hedge fund game for 30 years and still producing 20% annualized returns.

Also let me say this. ITS NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU CAN MAKE, ITS ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU CAN LOSE IN EACH TRADE. Always...ALWAYS be looking at your risk. You should look at the risk before you look at how much you can make.
 
WHODAT@THADOR

WHODAT@THADOR

Well-Known Member
Johnny Retro said:
lol never thought i'd see the day when someone on RIU is recommending trading CL. Futures can wipe you out just as fast, if not faster, than penny stocks. Not only can they wipe you out, you can also lose more money than whats in your account. Futures are a risky business for retail traders. You are utilizing margin in a big way. To put on a position in the 10 year note futures you only have to put down $500 in intra day margin and with that you are controlling $100,000 worth of 10 year notes. Scary stuff if you don't know what you're doing and put on a position 5min before unemployment or FOMC and the thing goes 25 ticks the opposite way of your holding. This is coming from someone that trades fixed income futures (the least volatile out of all the products). Its taken me years to become consistently profitable. If you are a "point and click" trader..give it up, that is a losing game unless you are a prodigy or something. Trading these days you NEED to know a high caliber programming language (c++). So unless you're willing to put in 50+ hours a week for years, don't even think about touching futures.

If you want to be a truly successful investor (not trader) read "margin of saftey" by Seth Klarman. Its going for like 2500 on amazon but you can find it on the major torrent sites. Also go look at his hedge funds (baupost) 13f filed every quarter to get an idea of what hes doing. Hes been the top of the hedge fund game for 30 years and still producing 20% annualized returns.

Also let me say this. ITS NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU CAN MAKE, ITS ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU CAN LOSE IN EACH TRADE. Always...ALWAYS be looking at your risk. You should look at the risk before you look at how much you can make.
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I agree with everything you just said but you shouldn't "Enter" a "trade" unless you have a predefined Entry/exit...I would recommend CL all day as a Trading insturment risk/reward is awesome as long as you define it....and stick to it......But Im not gonna follow A hedgefund's 13f thats posted a quarter later then the actual investment .......See IEP ....VLTC for example .... or Herbalife....I wouldn't wanna be caught up in the middle of that either , what if you would have followed Dan Loeb into his great short of GMCR ...... I think you could follow Berkshire until Buffet hands over the reign's JMO....There's plenty of Hedgefund's that base there holding's purely on Technical's as well and no fundamenta's....My point I guess is that unless your throwing Iron Butterflies on weeklies thursday afternoon and exiting Friday with your stops set with/in spread of the net credit your gonna have risk.....Its all about what your tolerance is how you define it ..... as you said
 
bud nugbong

bud nugbong

Well-Known Member
speaking of herbalife, I am listening to the argument between Icahn and ackman on tv from a while ago. From what ive heard ackman is a "fraud" and whatnot. Listening to the argument he seems like a very smart articulate guy who gets down to the facts. Icahn comes off as an asshole. doesn't really say anything when he talks.

I hear a lot of bad about ackman, but I would say Im on his side on this one. He states facts and seems like a no B.S kindof guy. I could be wrong but this is my 2nd interview ive seen him in and he seems like a smart guy. and Icahn is a fucking fool (at least acting like one in this interview).

And johnnyretro thanks for swinging by. always nice to see someone elses opinion. I use money I save from cigs and booze for all my investing, so I would have been throwing it away anyways. that always makes me feel better.

Next stock purchase is going to be soon. leaning towards a solar company. but could change. I have been interested in dividend paying stocks.

and whodat do you ever have stocks long enough to get dividends? I would imagine they come and go so often you never hold one long enough.
 
Johnny Retro

Johnny Retro

Well-Known Member
WHODAT@THADOR said:
I agree with everything you just said but you shouldn't "Enter" a "trade" unless you have a predefined Entry/exit...I would recommend CL all day as a Trading insturment risk/reward is awesome as long as you define it....and stick to it......But Im not gonna follow A hedgefund's 13f thats posted a quarter later then the actual investment .......See IEP ....VLTC for example .... or Herbalife....I wouldn't wanna be caught up in the middle of that either , what if you would have followed Dan Loeb into his great short of GMCR ...... I think you could follow Berkshire until Buffet hands over the reign's JMO....There's plenty of Hedgefund's that base there holding's purely on Technical's as well and no fundamenta's....My point I guess is that unless your throwing Iron Butterflies on weeklies thursday afternoon and exiting Friday with your stops set with/in spread of the net credit your gonna have risk.....Its all about what your tolerance is how you define it ..... as you said
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Not saying follow blindly. I mean look at what hes buying, look at their balance sheets and figure out why hes buying that company. Is it an under priced asset hidden on the balance sheet? Is it merger hes trying to push? Is the stock under priced to actual value. For example, IDIX. He'd been buying that company a few quarters before the merger, then in February he took a huge stake. I think he ended up owning like 35% of the company. At that point you have to think to yourself, ok, theres a 30 billion dollar hedgefund buying a small cap biotech stock..somthings going on. He made 1 billion on that. I only made 5k lol. The thing about Klarman is he also acts as a consultant for companies he buys that are distressed or need a little boost. Him being on a board of a company or actively consulting them adds tremendous value in my opinion.
 
WHODAT@THADOR

WHODAT@THADOR

Well-Known Member
bud nugbong said:
speaking of herbalife, I am listening to the argument between Icahn and ackman on tv from a while ago. From what ive heard ackman is a "fraud" and whatnot. Listening to the argument he seems like a very smart articulate guy who gets down to the facts. Icahn comes off as an asshole. doesn't really say anything when he talks.

I hear a lot of bad about ackman, but I would say Im on his side on this one. He states facts and seems like a no B.S kindof guy. I could be wrong but this is my 2nd interview ive seen him in and he seems like a smart guy. and Icahn is a fucking fool (at least acting like one in this interview).

And johnnyretro thanks for swinging by. always nice to see someone elses opinion. I use money I save from cigs and booze for all my investing, so I would have been throwing it away anyways. that always makes me feel better.

Next stock purchase is going to be soon. leaning towards a solar company. but could change. I have been interested in dividend paying stocks.

and whodat do you ever have stocks long enough to get dividends? I would imagine they come and go so often you never hold one long enough.
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I usually buy the day before they go exdiv....Theres usually a note attached if its otherwise I wait till they pay then I dump after collecting percent....Personally I like FSLR for solar....iBtw there both activists whose job is to by a controlling stake and put there people on the bored to drive there investments
Johnny Retro said:
Not saying follow blindly. I mean look at what hes buying, look at their balance sheets and figure out why hes buying that company. Is it an under priced asset hidden on the balance sheet? Is it merger hes trying to push? Is the stock under priced to actual value. For example, IDIX. He'd been buying that company a few quarters before the merger, then in February he took a huge stake. I think he ended up owning like 35% of the company. At that point you have to think to yourself, ok, theres a 30 billion dollar hedgefund buying a small cap biotech stock..somthings going on. He made 1 billion on that. I only made 5k lol. The thing about Klarman is he also acts as a consultant for companies he buys that are distressed or need a little boost. Him being on a board of a company or actively consulting them adds tremendous value in my opinion.
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Right ...But he has the means to push his holding's and Realistically probably knew about future M&A ahead of time at one of there fine luncheon's that are legal therefore making him privy to inside activity ......Following Hedgiesis all cool as they are required to make money everyday its in there contracts thats why they are exclusive.....But, when its time to dump better get out of the way.....Either way you wouldn't know till next quarter...That's kinda how I feel about them.......IMO those are the very reasons I dont hold stocks for years and yearsor even look at what they are doing or plans I just go by the Tech'sand it works for me.....The next time there is a true recession I'll be waiting then I will buy and hold but not @ these valuations and current levels ....I figure I'm still in the market still buy em to go up until im proven otherwise.
 
bud nugbong

bud nugbong

Well-Known Member
yea I like fslr too, they have been used a lot in the bigger projects around the country. Or SCTY, I think they will also be big in the residential projects.

as far as ackman, it seemed like his conference didn't hurt the HLF shares, actually had there best day in more than 5 years. we'll see how that plays out in the weeks to come.
 
Fast50

Fast50

Well-Known Member
Mmm.. My stomach hurts coming here to talk stocks.

Man, all i know is im -14k in like 3 months. I was trying to daytrade.. -6500. Then here within 2 months after that, my garbage fuckn investments are down near 7k. Smh. Its alot to me. I coulda moved to denver or humboldt twice already. Maybe after a few runs ill start educating myself on investing again.

I might just go homeless and become outdoor grower. Lol. You only live once right.
 
WHODAT@THADOR

WHODAT@THADOR

Well-Known Member
Fast50 said:
Mmm.. My stomach hurts coming here to talk stocks.

Man, all i know is im -14k in like 3 months. I was trying to daytrade.. -6500. Then here within 2 months after that, my garbage fuckn investments are down near 7k. Smh. Its alot to me. I coulda moved to denver or humboldt twice already. Maybe after a few runs ill start educating myself on investing again.

I might just go homeless and become outdoor grower. Lol. You only live once right.
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Ya bro thats rough....How long have you been trading?.......Did you play around in the sim mode for at least a couple weeks with fake money? Whats your rule set your following? Like Retro said above the most important thing you can do is define your RISK...How much you are willing to lose = Stop Loss...Theres a few different types.
 
Fast50

Fast50

Well-Known Member
Started etrade act. last sep. Just investing with $500. Then $2500. Then my 401k 13kish.. Started really trading (swing trading) in january.

No, strait to real cash just started small. And "learned" psychology of it..... But obviously not. Had a few simple rules i tryed to follow.. Suretrader strait jew the fuck out of me with bullshit splittin big orders up. I tech. only lost $3500 in the 1 month i day traded. 3k in broker fees. Smh. It was awesome drawn out shitty expierence. Im at a loss now and down too much (60%) to cut losses. I loved it for a week. It was horrible losing everyday all day for 20 days. Id make 400, lose 340. And to my un aware self, $300 in comm. i shoulda seen it after a week like losing ass loads of money. But. Smh... Its all history now. Lol.. I was trying to mimick claytrader tradin FB but couldnt hang.. Lost alot on FB, PLUG, few others. It was the -800 days that knocked me out.

Weed pennys might come back with mad hype if in nov. DC legalize recreational... Still money to be made now, but I've personally lost all focus on anything other than growing just about.

Goodluck though, its very do-able i still believe.
 
WHODAT@THADOR

WHODAT@THADOR

Well-Known Member
Your never down t0 much to cut losses.......Chop it up to some exp points....or the cost of doing business....As for the market psy part you gotta check yourself I would rather take a $150 dollar loss all day and reenter trade....reverse position.....Most DAYTRADING companies are scams anybody can go out copy somebody else's work say its there's and sell it...Unfortunately it's completely legal....BTW who's your broker thats outrageous in fees?I use IB $4.00 roundtrip..... Shoot me a PM if your interested I got a spot you can park yourself1st wks free to check out.... its only 97.00 bux a mnth to follow a real trader every morning covers stocks,futures,options. It isvery doable but he psychology is what has got you right now keeping you from making it back....IMHO I would cut my losses while I could trade on a sim till I figured it out because making that back in a wk is very-doable
 
Fast50

Fast50

Well-Known Member
Yah. Im just froze. I almost cut my 4k loss yest. I alredy missed the gopro ipo i woda played. (Hindsight but planned...). And Earnings season again now. Like FB now! Killer.

Well im invested in garbage pennys. So it was def. a expensive learnin lesson. I got fired while back just before i started day trading so could'nt get IB acct. ill get back in, if i can get back to work or make some guap.. I use etrade.

But suretrader would split up 500 FB shares into 4-5 sells to fill at $5 s pop. I was tryin to skim most active nasdaq daily and losing. Haha. If i woulda bought big board and held for at least a day id be sittin fine. Not -60% at least.

I cut a loss in HEMP for -300 @ .075 on way up too .3. after being down -2500 (50%ish) (.04). Missed 15k. By 3 days. Lol
 
bud nugbong

bud nugbong

Well-Known Member
Did you buy the HEMP during that big rise a few months ago? that's why im down in it right now. I had a smallish postion then when I saw it starting to climb the hill. I was waiting for the money in the account while watching it go up, and bought a shitload up high. I think im in @ .096. right now its @ .059 so ive got a long way to come back. I am really thinking of picking up more down here to bring my price down. decisions decisions . Im just glad I didn't buy it closer to .30 when it peaked. If I had been even a week earlier I could have cashed in a bit. (sell half after a double and let the rest ride). I learned a lesson on that one for sure.
 
WHODAT@THADOR

WHODAT@THADOR

Well-Known Member
I dont follow otcbb(pink) is that the exchange Hemp is on? And whats the Ticker?(HEMP) I was following MJNA for awhile its actually got a good channel between..... .10 and .50....
 
Fast50

Fast50

Well-Known Member
Ya i dont know.. Ima outa doe to fuck off so no more doubln down for me. But my honest opinion... Cut em before it goes further. There has been some pf what i thought good hemp news and the pos is still down there.. Just IMO.

I was in before the run. The volume is drying up, in all the pennies. I stopped following em couple months ago mostly after i took my acct to $60. And smashed my computer. Haha, but id been waitin yrs to smash that piece of shit anyway.
 
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WHODAT@THADOR

WHODAT@THADOR

Well-Known Member
Fast50 said:
Ya i dont know.. Ima outa doe to fuck off so no more doubln down for me. But my honest opinion... Cut em before it goes further. There has been some pf what i thought good hemp news and the pos is still down there.. Just IMO.

I was in before the run. The volume is drying up, in all the pennies. I stopped following em couple months ago mostly after i took my acct to $60. And smashed my computer. Haha, but id been waitin yrs to smash that piece of shit anyway.

Im in ORFG and IGRW. Down 60%+ each. Smh.
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Can you trade on CBOE?
 
Fast50

Fast50

Well-Known Member
I see i can trade CBOE hldgs on e trade. But not sure bout the "on" part. Like trade on that market. Dont know options. Dont know stocks neither. But act like i do.
 
bud nugbong

bud nugbong

Well-Known Member
WHODAT@THADOR said:
I dont follow otcbb(pink) is that the exchange Hemp is on? And whats the Ticker?(HEMP) I was following MJNA for awhile its actually got a good channel between..... .10 and .50....
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yea its HEMP in the pinks, Ive got a small piece of mjna I am actually thinking of getting rid of. I got it when I was really green and maybe got like 100$ worth as a "bookmark" for a future bigger buy. But what ive read as a company they don't seem to have much that stands them apart from all the others. and they just sold a bunch of assets to cannavest.

I actually passed on buying more HEMP and got in on CVRR, A fuel refining branch of the cvr energy group. (another branch is UAN wich produces nitrogen ferts) I own a good postion in both and they both have great dividends as of right now. I figured fuel and plant food are 2 very important things in daily life they are sure to be demand for a long time. I feel a little undiversified being part of the same parent company but they are a good one.

And on the dividend note, I know they can change. before I bought the UAN with good divs (8-9%) I was thinking about getting in on RNF another nitrogen producing plant, putting out the same product as UAN, and also had a high dividend I think around 9-10%. well after some comparisons I chose UAN, and not long after the dividend for RNF dropped down to less that 2%. I could have easily bought the other one based on the high divs and then been butthurt when it dropped.
 
WHODAT@THADOR

WHODAT@THADOR

Well-Known Member
Ya high div. payers r usually unsustainable CONAG (Agriculture) usually has some good one`s to park cash in same thing with defense I like northrop gruman NOC
 
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