Lets get dirty

tpc_mikey said:

Brother you are sure taking this to the next level, lol. I actually will start reusing my FFOF/Happy Frog mix as well will simply contionually recondition it and let it cook during grows the male i cut down that vegged 60 days got that soil already re amended and cooking in the garage so it will be ready in a few months for the next grow. Post some updated photos of the kids.

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its costing me money to buy this stuff now but itll save me money in the long run

at $18 a bag for ffof plus the fact it doesn't last long I will save money mixing my own
it takes about 1.5 to 1.75 bags to fill a 20 gallon pot

12 pots that's about 20 bags of ffof soil at $18 a bag = close to $400 with tax and then you still have to buy some kind of amendment or fertilizer to keep it going since its short


I purchased everything listed above for about the same price and itll last me many consecutive grows..
I wont need to buy any more amendments for a long long while

I could have just got the tomato tone or happy frog tomato and vegetable for now and maybe tried to make another run with the same soil but id only be chasing deficiency for the entire grow and Id end up using more salt fertilizers to make up the difference

the way I want to save money is by doing my own manure compost pile outside and with my worms making vermicompost
those damn EWC are expensive as it adds up

I wanted to use more EWC in my soil mix but its ends up being a good bit pricey so I had to go 3/4 compost to 1/4 EWC for now

plus I adding about 1 or 2 cups EWC top dressing every 2 weeks

im4satori said:

what are your thoughts on.....

a separate tea specific to fungi
and
a separate tea specific to BB
watered in 3 days apart

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that's totally retarded
(you asked lol)

calliandra said:

that's totally retarded
(you asked lol)

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if hydrolyzed fish and kelp promote fungal growth and sugars reduce it

and yet kelp reduces bacteria growth and sugars increase bacteria

why would it be retarded?

it would seem youd get higher bacterial numbers on its own
and higher fungal growth on its own

im not arguing or even debating
im just trying to reason it out in my head by asking if perhaps I miss understood what I read

im4satori said:

if hydrolyzed fish and kelp promote fungal growth and sugars reduce it

and yet kelp reduces bacteria growth and sugars increase bacteria

why would it be retarded?

it would seem youd get higher bacterial numbers on its own
and higher fungal growth on its own

im not arguing or even debating
im just trying to reason it out in my head by asking if perhaps I miss understood what I read

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My educated guess he was being a smart ass by saying it was retarded lol, I am really considering doing my own vermipost also just dont know if i want to build one or just but that worm factory 360 which is pretty cool. did you do a 3 stage with your tubes?

to make 4 gallons cut 4:1

primarily bacteria brew
5 cup any combo of compost or casting
1cup Unsulfured Black Strap Molasses

optional; substatute 1/2cup of compost for 1/2 cup combined total of alfalfa meal and or bat guano


primarily fungal brew 10 hours
5 cup any combo of compost or casting
1 cup oats aged 3 days with compost on 80 degree heat mat
4 oz hydrolized fish
4tsp dry kelp extract
1tbs molasses

optional; substatute 1/2 cup of compost for 1/2 cup combined total of alfalfa meal and or bat guanos

so I did some looking around on multiple sites to see what others are doing

I took what I found as the lowest amounts used in guano (to be safe)

im4satori said:

to make 4 gallons cut 4:1

primarily bacteria brew
5 cup any combo of compost or casting
1cup Unsulfured Black Strap Molasses

optional; substatute 1/2cup of compost for 1/2 cup combined total of alfalfa meal and or bat guano


primarily fungal brew 10 hours
5 cup any combo of compost or casting
1 cup oats aged 3 days with compost on 80 degree heat mat
4 oz hydrolized fish
4tsp dry kelp extract
1tbs molasses

optional; substatute 1/2 cup of compost for 1/2 cup combined total of alfalfa meal and or bat guanos

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What's the main difference with the bacterial teas and fungial teas.

Is each of them used to multiply the population. Or is it more of a feed source for the microbes. You do a better job at dumbing down stuff lol.

got my first brew in the works

4 gallons of water

2 cups horse/cow manure
2 cups worm casting
1/2 cup Alaska humus
1/2 cup mex guano (high N)
1 cup molasses

going let it brew 24 hours and water it in tomorrow night

the mix rate is 4:1 but I might only use it 6:1 the first time to make sure theres no issues with the guano

714steadyeddie said:

What's the main difference with the bacterial teas and fungial teas.

Is each of them used to multiply the population. Or is it more of a feed source for the microbes. You do a better job at dumbing down stuff lol.

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you calling me dumb...lol just kidding

they both break down the organic matter into available nutrient

but it seems a brew can be fungal or bacterial dominant depending on how its brewed

im4satori said:

you calling me dumb...lol just kidding

they both break down the organic matter into available nutrient

but it seems a brew can be fungal or bacterial dominant depending on how its brewed

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Haha I'm saying the opposite! Nice after you water take some pictures of the plants, I bet they respond well to it !

just put another 5 cups combined compost/ewc/Alaska in a paper bag with 1 cup outmeal flour

going to let that sit damp for a few days

ive read 3 days and in some places they say up to ten

I don't see how letting it go longer would be an issue..maybe just grow more fungi

all this is guess work at the moment so please NOBODY copy my methods until ive had a chance to make sure there working ...for me Im walking in uncharted territory

so yesterday I top dressed with 2 oz alfalfa meal scratched inot each 20 gallon container

im thinking of also adding 2 to 4 oz kelp meal

I gotta get some organic food back into this FFOF soil
its been a several weeks since I transplanted and its starting to look short on food

I think I wont add the kelp meal until a few days after the first tea just to be safe

im afraid if I add the kelp meal before the tea im just not sure if pouring the tea over the top dress kelp meal would hyper hasten its release and cause issues

I really cant see how that could be too much mex guano

it breaks down to only 1/2 tbs (1/4 oz) per gallon of finished solution (after it been cut)



after looking close I realized
the original recipe I found at icmag called for 1 tbs per gallon
since im at half that I think I will stick with the 4:1 mix ratio

if theres no issues I might bump it up on the next brew

im4satori said:

if hydrolyzed fish and kelp promote fungal growth and sugars reduce it

and yet kelp reduces bacteria growth and sugars increase bacteria

why would it be retarded?

it would seem youd get higher bacterial numbers on its own
and higher fungal growth on its own

im not arguing or even debating
im just trying to reason it out in my head by asking if perhaps I miss understood what I read

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It's retarded because if you seriously want to grow organically, your aim is to create the conditions for the flourishing of a well-rounded soil food web.

And what you're doing instead, adamantly, is sourcing "single ingredients".
Which is chemical-think.
By which I mean that attitude towards nature as if it were a machine that can be subjected to a schedule or precisely dosed feedings to guarantee expected results.

And chemical-think, IN MY HONEST OPINION, NO smart-assing involved, is totally retarded and totally inappropriate when you are building communities.
In fact, seen from a holistic perspective, chemical think is catastrophic and should be recognized as ecocide, and the people bringing that stuff and perpetuating that way of thinking should be deterred, as criminals, because they ARE.

Apart from the fact that bacteria are everywhere, they are the last thing that dies, and will be in any soil, perhaps not very diverse, but there will be some. Fungi are the first to get killed, and in all of the soils I've worked with in the past year, it was those that needed adding. And you can't have a good fungal tea without a good diverse bacterial population, flagellates, amoebae, and nematodes.

Remember the fat guy at the buffet? He's only going to eat what he likes.
Provide balanced diversity.
Your plant is only going to feed those critters it wants and needs for its nutrition.

Here's a video of a flagellate in action, from a sample of my indoor living soil.
The surroundings are FULL of life, all sorts of it.
Some of the critters are marked.
Enjoy.

714steadyeddie said:

Haha I'm saying the opposite! Nice after you water take some pictures of the plants, I bet they respond well to it !

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http://www.compostjunkie.com/compost-tea-recipe.html

found this site

i thought it was easy reading

im4satori said:

http://www.compostjunkie.com/compost-tea-recipe.html

found this site

i thought it was easy reading

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That sounds good, I'm actually venturing out to an indoor vegetable garden. This is solid.

As for cannabis I think I'm going with just a ewc and molasses teas. With occasional coconut waterings. If I had aloe Vera I would add that too. My garden is small scale compared to yours.

I found a local worm farm to pick up ewc. Super stoked on that.

calliandra said:

It's retarded because if you seriously want to grow organically, your aim is to create the conditions for the flourishing of a well-rounded soil food web.

And what you're doing instead, adamantly, is sourcing "single ingredients".
Which is chemical-think.
By which I mean that attitude towards nature as if it were a machine that can be subjected to a schedule or precisely dosed feedings to guarantee expected results.

And chemical-think, IN MY HONEST OPINION, NO smart-assing involved, is totally retarded and totally inappropriate when you are building communities.


Apart from the fact that bacteria are everywhere, they are the last thing that dies, and will be in any soil, perhaps not very diverse, but there will be some. Fungi are the first to get killed, and in all of the soils I've worked with in the past year, it was those that needed adding. And you can't have a good fungal tea without a good diverse bacterial population, flagellates, amoebae, and nematodes.

Remember the fat guy at the buffet? He's only going to eat what he likes.
Provide balanced diversity.
Your plant is only going to feed those critters it wants and needs for its nutrition.

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well said as always.

greasemonkeymann said:

View attachment 3930497
View attachment 3930498
well said as always.

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lmao thank you
*curtsies*

let me first start by saying, i hope my questions don't turn into some kind of a roast;
If your intent is to mock me then I will be fine without the interest....

I wouldn't say its retarded for a newb to organics to view several pages of tea recipes with brews leaning toward bacterial or fungal
to ask if theres a reason to alternate the methods in which you brew to encourage more diversity

the reason I used several different compost/humus material was to achieve diversity

the reason I ask about brewing the teas either more funga or more bacterial is also again to achieve diversity

I also might add
I didnt build this soil
its fox farm ocean forest and its light on amendments

im about to build my first potting soil but currently in the FFOF

so im trying to adamantly trying to identify how to feed organically whats lacking
and avoid chemical inputs as to not discourage biology

I understand the goal would have been to build a soil to which all I need to do is leave it be

well

im4satori said:

got my first brew in the works

4 gallons of water

2 cups horse/cow manure
2 cups worm casting
1/2 cup Alaska humus
1/2 cup mex guano (high N)
1 cup molasses

going let it brew 24 hours and water it in tomorrow night

the mix rate is 4:1 but I might only use it 6:1 the first time to make sure theres no issues with the guano

Click to expand...

so this is my base tea ive settle on for my next tea brew in about 7 to 10 days
hopefully its balanced...

4 gallons of water

2 cups horse/cow manure
2 cups worm casting
1/2 cup Alaska humus
(aged 3+ days in oats)
4 oz molasses
the mix rate is 4:1

as a side note;
the previous tea i just used had 1/2 cup mex guano (high N) which over night seems to supplied a mild amount of N to the foliar fed at a 3:1 mix rate plant
and no noticeable change to the plants that only got soil drenched

so it seems the amount of guano used was safe and provided the mild amount of N i was looking for

now that flower is starting i will not be needing anymore guano hopfully

hopefully the top dress of alfalfa meal (2 oz) and kelp meal (4 oz) per 20 gallon pot will negate the need to use high N guano in the tea for the rest of the grow

and possibly supply enough food until the end