Legalization. We are doing the right thing at the wrong time.

Legalization. We are doing the right thing at the wrong time.

If we legalize cannabis without proper controls, parents lose control of what their children will ingest, --- in terms of the various psychotropic drugs that are here now, --- and coming up in the future. We ain't seen nothing yet.

Legalizing drugs to reduce harm is the logical thing to do. No question. That move must, at some point in time, include all psychotropic drugs, --- if any policy is to work for the best possible end. So says the bible of drugs. The L'Edain Royal Commission Report on Psychotropic drugs. Along with a separate report on Cannabis.

The commission knew that in terms of legislation, Cannabis was in fact the gateway drug so feared by the conservative right. Addition researchers have s been writing of cocaine legalization for better than 50 years now. That is why all drugs had to be considered.

Conclusionsat page 226. http://www.druglibrary.eu/library/reports/ledaincan.pdf

I do not get hysterical about children and drugs. Teens will be teens. But, as a parent, I don't like children whose brains and minds are still developing,--- having access to all varieties of drugs without my consent. Head banging isfor mature heads.

The commission found that before legalization took place, we would all have to learn how to use what it called intelligent use of freedom of choice. We have yet to go through thet necessary exercise, and if we are to reach the best end we have to.

We adults, have yet to develop our intelligent use of freedom of choice, so we would be fools to think our children are ready for a completely unsupervised system.

Parents should re-think legalization. Should we heavily legislate and control legalization as we learn to control our addictions?

As adults, we need to quickly learn how to express our intelligent use of freedomof choice --- and be a proper example to our children, so that they will knowhow to do the same.

We must legalize all drugs at some point in time. Justice demands it. But to legalize without control, is a real bad idea. Let's all grow up responsibly together shall we, with rules.

Let's remember our priorities. Our Children should come before our addictions.

Regards
DL

This is garbage. so what exactly are you proposing? gradually decreasing prohibitionism until such a time as YOU deem the human population as capable of exercising freedom of choice responsibly, where responsibility is likewise determined by YOU?

if you're that worried about what your kid is getting into, try talking with him or her. I mean this "save/protect the children" argument has to be the biggest case of parents complaining that their inability to parent should be fixed by a government ill-equipped to do just that. if you have a good, honest, open, truthful relationship with your child, there should be no problem explaining the dangers of adult behaviors before the brain is developed. Those behaviors include imbibing psychotropic substances, engaging in frivolous sexual activity, sky diving, gambling, riding rollercoasters of a certain type, etc. Some of these activities can be participated in more safely under the guidance of an adult. For example, every year in the US, hundreds of thousands of youths engage in a grueling season of football. These youths are undeniably exposing themselves to massive (and potentially fatal) risks. Risk that includes dangers to psychosocial, psychomotor, and general cognitive development. Coaches and trainers can minimize these risks, but they are still present. The risk of dying from football is infinitely greater than the risk of dying from marijuana. Should we outlaw football until 18? or should we trust communities to approach the game with due caution, while recognizing the statistical inevitability for SOMETHING BAD to happen EVENTUALLY?
We can't "nerf the world" to use a phrase from Joe Roegan (sp?)
So, before you make a claim that someone who fights for immediate legalization to prevent the continuing, horrific, tragic policies of prohibition that place in cages a vast population of (generally brown and black) young people (mostly men) is doing so at the cost of the safety of children, I would have to ask that you think of the people in those cages. Can they wait around in jail long enough for the human population to learn how to control themselves without scapegoating inanimate substances?
Which brings me to my next point, whenever something bad happens and drugs are involved, we blame the drugs (as a culture). This is wrong. It was the child's choice--however ill-equipped he or she may be in making said choice--to take the drugs in question. I personally can't evaluate that choice, on its own, as being either morally good or morally evil. The actions engaged in after imbibing, however, are still the responsibility of the child, or any individual who has chemically altered his or her psyche. No more should we accept the excuse (if we still do), "i was so drunk/high/spun/etc." as a perpetrator's reasoning for his or her bad behavior. But offloading the moral value of "evil" onto the drug in question is much easier for parents who don't want to think their child is capable of doing something they disagree with or consider to be morally "wrong." I suspect they don't want to think this because it would socially and culturally be constructed as a reflection on their poor parenting, when in actuality all it represents is a singular event of a child, who is a thinking feeling individual being with proclivities, wants/desires, opinions and tastes of his or her own, making a choice for him or herself.
rant over--ran out of coffee/steam.
be easy,

I'd like also to point out that you're citing a study completed under the offices of a Dean of Law, not medicine, not psychology, not child psychology, not behavioral psychology, not anthropology, not cultural anth, not sociology. Law. the premise takes the concept of drug use, a priori, as a legal question. it is not one, nor should it have ever been.

And furthermore, a problem with citing such an outdated study is that in their conclusion they suppose "With legalization, there is a strong possibility that the number of regular users will increase and that the effects of cannabis intoxication will be observed in a greater number of people. It is also expected that a certain number of
cannabis users would go on to other hallucinogens and would make greater use of barbiturates, tranquilizers and
alcohol, as well." (emphasis mine)

Particularly since economists and behaviorists are currently positing the idea that cannabis is a substitute for other drugs, most notably ALCOHOL, the surmising that cannabis (a) possess some sort of gateway role to play, and (b) its use will lead to GREATER USES OF ALCOHOL are just plain out-of-date, at best.
if anything, your post serves to show that we sincerely need more scientific and social scientific research on drugs in general and cannabis specifically.

alcohol is going to do greater damage to children because it is a more caustic substance with more deleterious effects on the psyche as well. hence, legalizing cannabis will enable the choice to be made: which drug is less risky for me to imbibe? everyone in the alcohol industry is terrified of this, because the answer is so fucking clear and obvious.

Dr.J20 said:

I'd like also to point out that you're citing a study completed under the offices of a Dean of Law, not medicine, not psychology, not child psychology, not behavioral psychology, not anthropology, not cultural anth, not sociology. Law. the premise takes the concept of drug use, a priori, as a legal question. it is not one, nor should it have ever been.

Click to expand...

Correct but I was at that time s of course they start from that remise.

The conditions that the commission found was concluded to be the same by Justice L'Edain just a few years ago.

He showed that the model we should be using as the medical model and not the legal one. From that POV, all drugs had to be considered as it was thought to be foolish to just bring one drug at a time into the medical model. I agree as that is the only way parents can control to the highest level what their children will consume.

That is our duty.

I also agree that other drug use is not likely to suddenly increase in use.

The method L'Edain suggests is just as much to reduce what children are presently doing and enhance parental ability to deny any drug to their children should they chose that as the best option.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am said:

Correct but I was at that time s of course they start from that remise.

The conditions that the commission found was concluded to be the same by Justice L'Edain just a few years ago.

He showed that the model we should be using as the medical model and not the legal one. From that POV, all drugs had to be considered as it was thought to be foolish to just bring one drug at a time into the medical model. I agree as that is the only way parents can control to the highest level what their children will consume.

That is our duty.

I also agree that other drug use is not likely to suddenly increase in use.

The method L'Edain suggests is just as much to reduce what children are presently doing and enhance parental ability to deny any drug to their children should they chose that as the best option.

Regards
DL

Click to expand...

the government makes a terrible parent.

Dr.J20 said:

the government makes a terrible parent.

Click to expand...

That is why I propose what our Royal Commission did and move that duty to the medial model instead of the legal one that we now follow. A doctor makes a better parent where drugs are at issue than a parent who may not have the information or a government that does no care.

Do you agree.

Regards
DL

I agree with Dr.J20



Damn a gradual reduction. End the laws NOW. End the gang culture that is funded primarily by the illegal drug trade, make them go broke so they will fall apart. Legalizing just marijuana is no where near good enough. I do have a theory on something that is coming in the near future that has the potential to end the drug war laws and it's 3D Drug Printers.>

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/smart-takes/3d-printing-turning-your-home-into-a-drugstore/

When that technology gets out and it will, it will make it's way into homes all over the the US , Europe , and everywhere else. Governments all over are going to have a field day trying to stop it, especially the US. When people no longer have to deal with another person in buying whatever they want and instead go to a machine in the privacy of their own home that will synthesize chemicals in a chain-reaction into making other chemicals and then those chemicals continue into synthesizing into drugs of their choice from the apps that will be available, it's going to knock a global dent into the illegal drug trade the world over. Not only that, it's going to knock a massive dent into the pharmaceutical industry. I think enough researchers are working on this technology that corporations and governments won't be able to prevent it from reaching the populace.

It's going to be interesting to see how the govt will respond to it when it gets here. There once was a time when the US for example did not have drug laws. There once was a time when Sears sold heroin kits by mail order and everything sold in pharmacies was Over The Counter. The world has always had drug addicts and always will. When governments started writing up and enforcing drug laws, it ADDED to societies problems. It did not make them better, it made them WORSE.

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/huebert/huebert35.1.html

As the article from the link above said, most addicts way back then kept their addiction hidden. Another thing , the common fear rhetoric from pro-drug war advocates is that there would be an explosion of new drug addicts like never before seen upon the end of all drug laws. That is just complete and utter bullshit. History proves that to be bullshit. Drugs were legal for many many decades and society wasn't full of drug addicts. There are drugs from A-to-Z in every major and medium sized city in the US right now that are sold illegally 24/7 and hundreds of drug laws on the books do nothing but keep packing prisons full and constant violations of the 4th amendment with an ever-expanding police state. The US has the largest prison population in the world. I don't see how this drug war can continue indefinitely. Right now, the movement towards legalizing marijuana grows in number each month with pressure in all states and it will become legal as the pressure and force that is pushing it grows even larger. The old fashioned older generation are dying off. WHEN , marijuana is legalized in all states, the next thing the populace will go for is legalizing ALL drugs and I don't blame them. Especially, when the technology of 3D Drug Printers begins to reach into homes. There's no way in hell law enforcement will be able to stop it.

TreeOfLiberty said:

I agree with Dr.J20



Damn a gradual reduction. End the laws NOW. End the gang culture that is funded primarily by the illegal drug trade, make them go broke so they will fall apart. Legalizing just marijuana is no where near good enough. I do have a theory on something that is coming in the near future that has the potential to end the drug war laws and it's 3D Drug Printers.>

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/smart-takes/3d-printing-turning-your-home-into-a-drugstore/

When that technology gets out and it will, it will make it's way into homes all over the the US , Europe , and everywhere else. Governments all over are going to have a field day trying to stop it, especially the US. When people no longer have to deal with another person in buying whatever they want and instead go to a machine in the privacy of their own home that will synthesize chemicals in a chain-reaction into making other chemicals and then those chemicals continue into synthesizing into drugs of their choice from the apps that will be available, it's going to knock a global dent into the illegal drug trade the world over. Not only that, it's going to knock a massive dent into the pharmaceutical industry. I think enough researchers are working on this technology that corporations and governments won't be able to prevent it from reaching the populace.

It's going to be interesting to see how the govt will respond to it when it gets here. There once was a time when the US for example did not have drug laws. There once was a time when Sears sold heroin kits by mail order and everything sold in pharmacies was Over The Counter. The world has always had drug addicts and always will. When governments started writing up and enforcing drug laws, it ADDED to societies problems. It did not make them better, it made them WORSE.

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/huebert/huebert35.1.html

As the article from the link above said, most addicts way back then kept their addiction hidden. Another thing , the common fear rhetoric from pro-drug war advocates is that there would be an explosion of new drug addicts like never before seen upon the end of all drug laws. That is just complete and utter bullshit. History proves that to be bullshit. Drugs were legal for many many decades and society wasn't full of drug addicts. There are drugs from A-to-Z in every major and medium sized city in the US right now that are sold illegally 24/7 and hundreds of drug laws on the books do nothing but keep packing prisons full and constant violations of the 4th amendment with an ever-expanding police state. The US has the largest prison population in the world. I don't see how this drug war can continue indefinitely. Right now, the movement towards legalizing marijuana grows in number each month with pressure in all states and it will become legal as the pressure and force that is pushing it grows even larger. The old fashioned older generation are dying off. WHEN , marijuana is legalized in all states, the next thing the populace will go for is legalizing ALL drugs and I don't blame them. Especially, when the technology of 3D Drug Printers begins to reach into homes. There's no way in hell law enforcement will be able to stop it.

Click to expand...

I also agreed wit Dr.J and also see that you basically agree with me as we both see a bleak future with governments not being able to keep up with the designers of drugs.

That is why I prefer to nip the drug designers in the bud and follow he recommendations of the L'Edain report.

That would solve future problems and is the intelligent thing to do.

Thanks for the good info and post

Regards
DL

TreeOfLiberty said:

I agree with Dr.J20



Damn a gradual reduction. End the laws NOW. End the gang culture that is funded primarily by the illegal drug trade, make them go broke so they will fall apart. Legalizing just marijuana is no where near good enough. I do have a theory on something that is coming in the near future that has the potential to end the drug war laws and it's 3D Drug Printers.>

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/smart-takes/3d-printing-turning-your-home-into-a-drugstore/

When that technology gets out and it will, it will make it's way into homes all over the the US , Europe , and everywhere else. Governments all over are going to have a field day trying to stop it, especially the US. When people no longer have to deal with another person in buying whatever they want and instead go to a machine in the privacy of their own home that will synthesize chemicals in a chain-reaction into making other chemicals and then those chemicals continue into synthesizing into drugs of their choice from the apps that will be available, it's going to knock a global dent into the illegal drug trade the world over. Not only that, it's going to knock a massive dent into the pharmaceutical industry. I think enough researchers are working on this technology that corporations and governments won't be able to prevent it from reaching the populace.

It's going to be interesting to see how the govt will respond to it when it gets here. There once was a time when the US for example did not have drug laws. There once was a time when Sears sold heroin kits by mail order and everything sold in pharmacies was Over The Counter. The world has always had drug addicts and always will. When governments started writing up and enforcing drug laws, it ADDED to societies problems. It did not make them better, it made them WORSE.

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/huebert/huebert35.1.html

As the article from the link above said, most addicts way back then kept their addiction hidden. Another thing , the common fear rhetoric from pro-drug war advocates is that there would be an explosion of new drug addicts like never before seen upon the end of all drug laws. That is just complete and utter bullshit. History proves that to be bullshit. Drugs were legal for many many decades and society wasn't full of drug addicts. There are drugs from A-to-Z in every major and medium sized city in the US right now that are sold illegally 24/7 and hundreds of drug laws on the books do nothing but keep packing prisons full and constant violations of the 4th amendment with an ever-expanding police state. The US has the largest prison population in the world. I don't see how this drug war can continue indefinitely. Right now, the movement towards legalizing marijuana grows in number each month with pressure in all states and it will become legal as the pressure and force that is pushing it grows even larger. The old fashioned older generation are dying off. WHEN , marijuana is legalized in all states, the next thing the populace will go for is legalizing ALL drugs and I don't blame them. Especially, when the technology of 3D Drug Printers begins to reach into homes. There's no way in hell law enforcement will be able to stop it.

Click to expand...

I also agreed with the good Dr. and as you, I see problems with keeping up with the drug designers.

As to 3 D printing of dugs. Tat is not how those units work. You would have to supply the drug and the printer could put I in pill form or whatever for you want. It cannot print drugs from nothing though. The usual product it uses is plastic. Plastic pot leaves or buds do not smoke well.

Regards
DL