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Jack's Classic /JR PETERS (Don't waste money on anything else)

Discussion in 'Nutrients' started by SheepsBlood, Mar 31, 2017.

?

Do you already use Jacks?

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. I wish

  4. I like to overpay for fertilizer and pay for water in a bottle

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1.  
    SheepsBlood

    SheepsBlood Well-Known Member

    I will add to this but, for now I am going to share my opinion and some links, others will join in.

    These are the Jacks/JR that work and do the same and better than the expensive brands.
    Soil Based Media (Currently Only Available thru Martins Produce Supplies)
    Jacks 15-20-28 Fertilizer AquaGold Grow N' Bloom (VEG + 2 weeks in flower (3 weeks for long strains)
    Jacks 7-15-30 Fertilizer AquaGold Finisher (Remaining Flower)

    Peat Based Media
    Jack's Hydro Feed 16-4-17
    or
    Jack's Professional Calcium Magnesium LX 15-5-15

    Hydroponic
    Jacks Classic 4# 5-12-26 Hydroponic
    &
    Jack's 15-0-0 Cal-Trate

    Blossom Booster
    Jacks Classic No.1.5 10-30-20

    These are the 3 staples of Jacks that will provide you with the exact nutrients you need to grow healthy plants and have great yields.

    You are welcome to use a Bloom Booster and that is why I listed one but, it is not necessary. Actually, I don't believe in the "BIG P MYTH"

    (I add some Canna P/K 13/14 for 1 week and that's it.) I have only seen a slight boost in yield with higher P/K and that was in a friends grow which was desperately in need of more available nutrients. He was a seriously weak feeder, maybe 0.2EC at most in soil)
     
    Jeeyah and ttystikk like this.
  2.  
    indianajones

    indianajones Well-Known Member

    don't forget about jack's tomato feED, it's a 12-15-30. if you've got water
    with plenty of calcium you don't need to add anything but epsom salts.
     
    ttystikk, SheepsBlood and dandyrandy like this.
  3.  
    PCXV

    PCXV Well-Known Member

    Why so little N in their soil nutes? I use 50% nute-less soil (garden mix from local farm) 50% perlite and Dyna Gro Foliage pro, ProteKt, and Bloom currently. I think the closest thing on your list is Professional Calcium Magnesium LX (peat based). I'm hesitant to switch but if I can save money I'd appreciate being informed on what might work for me.

    I notice the Jacks nute above doesn't include a few micros that DG does, namely sulfur, nickel, cobalt, chlorine, and sodium. Will I need to supplement further to get those micros with Jacks?
     
    ttystikk likes this.
  4.  
    ChaosHunter

    ChaosHunter Well-Known Member

    If I didn't have to order to get it I would try it.
     
  5.  
    homebrewer

    homebrewer Well-Known Member

    Calcium carbonate is often times the source of the calcium in your tap water and it's not readily available to plants. You'll still need a calcium supplement if your nutrients don't already supply it.

    And a quick comment about the poll options: folks who buy liquid nutrients aren't paying for water as much as they're paying for convenience. Complete, one-part foods are plug and play. Dry foods can be messy and tedious to use unless stock solutions in concentrated form are made. That being said, I do buy raw salts and make supplements for a fraction of what retail stores charge.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
    PCXV, jacrispy and MichiganMedGrower like this.
  6.  
    all coco

    all coco Member

    I ordered from JR Peters direct it was a couple bucks cheaper than Amazon even with shipping for the 4# pails. Hoping to do a side by side comparison with Pure Blend Pro and Botanicare additives that I'm using now.
     
  7.  
    SheepsBlood

    SheepsBlood Well-Known Member

    I haven't needed to supplement. I don't even add in Epsom salt to my hydro applications. If you are feeding according to their recommended feeding schedule, your plant will get everything it needs.

    READ THIS

    It will help you understand why you don't see separate added micros on their product. Trust me, if they are selling to the mainstream agriculture, they aren't in the game of screwing over crops and farmers. DG just does it a different way. I'm not an agricultural chemical engineer, though JR's is cheaper than DG's bottled brand.
     
  8.  
    PCXV

    PCXV Well-Known Member

    Jack's Aqua Gold 15-20-28 NPK ratio is a lot different than FP's 9-3-6 NPK ratio. Now I know DG is recommended for Hydro, so it seems to me that Jack's is assuming my soil has some Nitrogen in it? Do plants need less Nitrogen in soil?

    My soil has zero added nutrients/fertilizer. Ingredients are Aged bark, peat moss, coconut coir, pumice, perlite, lime, dolomite, gypsum, and natural yucca wetting agent. Jack's soil forumulas seem like they have way too much P and K and not enough N. The peat-baded formula I noted in my last post has a better ratio it seems 15-5-15, but I could do with less K as I like to add Potassium Silicate 0-0-3 (ProteKt) for the added benefit of silicon.

    Re: Micronutrients. Beyond the basic function and use of each micro the article you posted outlines, is the overall point that my soil mixture should already have most of those micros? Do the ingredients in my soil have them you suppose?
     
  9.  
    homebrewer

    homebrewer Well-Known Member

    Your 15-5-15, assuming it's complete, would outperform a 15-20-28 as that NPK content is better suited for hydro.
     
  10.  
    PCXV

    PCXV Well-Known Member

    Compared to Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro it lacks sulfur, nickel, cobalt, chlorine, and sodium.
     
  11.  
    homebrewer

    homebrewer Well-Known Member

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a foliage pro guy all the way but I'm sure that Jacks has enough micros to avoid a deficiency. My main concern is the lack of calcium which can easily be added in a number of ways but could also be a little tedious as compared to any number of the liquid one-parts. Is saving a buck a plant worth the mixing? That's up to the grower.
     
    PCXV likes this.
  12.  
    SheepsBlood

    SheepsBlood Well-Known Member

    I believe additives are a good thing once your dialed in. Plants healthy, 1000ppm to 1000 watts max, then and only then put in some additives. Unless it's beneies
    Well the "hydroponic" mix can be used in soil also. It is a 2 part with Cal-Nit making up for the Calcium. Trust me there is plenty of calcium in their products.
    I know many focus on Cal and Mag as if they were what ensured proper plant growth. BTW, more Cal in Veg and more Mag in Flower. You can do both but the focus is just that.

    I am not trying to be rude by any means. If you are looking to be convinced to use Jacks, I am willing to do just that. Otherwise, I set this forum up to be a Jacks Specific and Only thread. Additives are welcome, if the bases are Jacks. I am not a Dyna-Gro fan or a fan of any other company for my base nutrients. Dyna-Gro has nothing I like actually. Their Neem Oil doesn't dilute well, their KLN is junk and doesn't do anything, and I don't use any Silicates (my opinion on that is it's a waste of money, I have seen absolutely no difference and used different brands over a 2 year period, including Pro-Tekt which I have nearly a full bottle of)

    Much of what is put on the market is for us to buy to make them more wealthy. They don't care one little bit about your end result. They know you are gonna make enough profit with or without the junk they sell you. It's NPK and Genetics to start with, outside of that is bio-stimulants. Those will only do so much. If you are dialed in, then you may see up to a 10% increase in yield and maybe 1%-2% better THC. Flower smell and stickiness can be brought out with bio-stimulants also. Though, this is for a more appealing product. I would only ever suggest organically made bio-stimulants.
    As for beneficials, I do believe they help in the health of a plant and humic acid in great stuff for better Brix. You, have to realize everyone wants Cannabis Cup winning weed, but spending your entire paycheck to get there isn't worth it. The best tomato or corn or apple isn't inundated with as much BS as cannabis is. Yeah, an apple isn't getting you stoned, but next time you smoke some bud, tthink about how much effort was put into that bud and the bud you spent half that cost on. I bet it wasn't any better. You, will have to be subjective to the fact that you probably didn't grow the same exact plant over the two trials. I can say I have, and many times. Most strains last about 1-2 years in my Veg room, and I keep 5 mothers at any one time. Currently, I have mothers of Super Silver Haze, Hashberry, Underdog Headband, Northern Lights/88 G-13, Thin Mint, Galactic Glue. My Super Silver Haze mom went into the bloom room 2 days ago, I had her for over a year now, but shes a keeper so I have a new mother growing of her.
     
  13.  
    homebrewer

    homebrewer Well-Known Member

    I respect Jacks is much as the next grower but I don't quite understand the DG hate. They're one of the good guys. And you think you saw an increase in yield with a PK boost for a week but didn't notice a difference with silicates? You might want to visit that one again.
     
    Dividedsky, jacrispy and HydoDan like this.
  14.  
    SheepsBlood

    SheepsBlood Well-Known Member

    It's not DG hate, I just hate salts in a bottle of water. I can make a bottle of salt water with my own supplies and get the same result. Spending a lot less money.
    As for silica, I am not saying it is worthless. I am saying it doesn't make an impact great enough to cause me to use it. We went years without it. Also potassium silicate really screws with the PH. As for Silicon dioxide, well that ain't gonna work well in hydro since it isn't as soluble.
     
  15.  
    homebrewer

    homebrewer Well-Known Member

    So break down some numbers for us so we can talk about cost. How many grams per gallon are you using of their hydro mix and their calcium nitrate supplement during flower and what EC does that equal?
     
  16.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    I use a locally manufactured version;
    Hydro-gardens.com

    https://hydro-gardens.com/product/hydroponic-special-formula-25lbs-bag-5-11-26/

    • 5-11-26 hydroponic special mix
    • Calcium nitrate (Yara brand)
    • Mag sulfate, aka epsom salt
    • MKP, aka monopotassium phosphate (Haifa Brand)
    I checked the numbers and this stuff has higher levels of micros.

    Also, using the above mentioned brands I was able to save substantially over the equivalent Jacks products.

    These nutrients are what commercial greenhouses use, as well as many commercial Cannabis facilities here in Colorado.

    Whether or not you want to supplement with epsom salt or MKP, these dry nutrient salts give the grower complete control over their plant nutrition, because you know exactly what's in them.

    They give you one more thing as well; peace of mind, because you know what ISN'T in them. No strange additives, no preservatives, no emulsifiers, no PGRs, just the salts.

    They're a perfect foundation for any nutrient profile you might want. There's no reason not to add humic and fulvic acids, for example. Not that there's any particular need to do so.
     
    firsttimeARE likes this.
  17.  
    PCXV

    PCXV Well-Known Member

    I know nothing about hydro or non-soil growing mediums. What grow medium do you use with the above nutes? I want to make the switch to something other than soil but don't know where to begin. Any suggestions on research sources?
     
    ttystikk likes this.
  18.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    I've run bare root hydroponics, in my case RDWC, and the dry nutes worked great.

    I'm currently running a soilless substrate called Tupur Royal Gold and it works great.

    Basically, anything that doesn't add or remove nutrients and has good drainage would do the same.
     
    PCXV likes this.
  19.  
    PCXV

    PCXV Well-Known Member

    Thanks, I will be checking out methods in the coming months as I use the rest of my soil. Basically, I grow indoor in a spare bedroom in my apartment, so don't want anything too messy or noisy. Ive seen the pre-fab hydro buckets at ace hardware, and am also intriqued by non-soil mediums, that Tupur stuff looks interesting.

    I've read a couple debates about 'live vs sterile' - what do you do and does it make a difference?
     
  20.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    In your situation you should just run Tupur. It does a good job of buffering for both excessive EC and imperfect pH.
     
    PCXV likes this.

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