Discussion in 'Politics' started by Abiqua, Feb 5, 2018.
All existing political States are illegitimate.
Few more so than Israel.
Do you think it was a response to the holocaust, as in seizing a sympathetic moment in time ?
Like Europe, and GB and the US didn't feel sorry for what happened to the Jews during WW2 (they should), and said fuck the Palestinians?
Yes, it was sympathetic, and the ME, the US and the Palestinians and the world in general have been paying the price ever since.
tl;dr - Israel and Palestine both have blood on their hands and act only in interest of their own ruling party's agenda, not their population.
Both have committed acts of terror.
Both have killed.
That's the world we live in, folks. There is no moral high ground, here.
i have never ridiculed anyone for using wikipedia idiot.
this is borderline holocaust denial, to claim that the holocaust was merely a ploy to give the jews a home state.
i bet you and your klan chapter have worse theories about jews though
As usual Poopy Pants, you have things ass backwards. I think the holocaust was a horrible thing, I think taking something away from some people and "giving" it to others is where the problem lies.
This debate is binary and therefore polarised. There needs to be a clear distinction between the state of Israel, Israeli citizens, Jews and the current political leadership in Israel. The same goes for Palestinians Palestine, Muslims and hamas. These are not homologous. It seems that it is the current political leadership on both sides that is creating the enmity expressed by members. Hamas has distanced itself from its charter which is a nod in the right direction, however they are not trusted by the current Israeli leadership so little to no progress will be made.
Right. I think most educated people agree it was a mistake redrawing the lines of the Middle East and Africa, but it's irreconcilable now. A moot point that isn't really worth discussion, because it's done.
Israel is a disgusting racist squatting thieves that think because they are gods chosen people no laws apply to them...
Blaming the Palestinians for anything except trying to survive shows your lack of any knowledge on the situation ...
Israel can eat shit and die as long it wont declare its gnarly NUCLEAR EVERYTHING... Google "SAMSON OPTION"
I appreciate your point of view, but I think going forward, recognizing what we're seeing in the Middle East today may be a manifestation of the unforeseen (?) and unintended consequences of politicians being allowed to color boundary lines on maps with crayons in years past.
In other words, it may not be moot if that kind of stuff continues in other areas of the world into the future. It may point to a larger, but unrecognized or at least largely undiscussed truth, that doing things that way may be a causative factor in perpetuating wars.
But one side was living peacefully in their homes in Palestine in 1948 until the Zionist Jews showed up, and then told the Palestinians to move the fuck out, or die.
The world has been kissing Israeli ass ever since, and the Palestinians have been fucked ever since.
The Jews have been historically fucked, BUT now they have created their own version of Holocaust for the Palestinians.
Fuck Israel, that racist state.
quiet down, jew hater.
That is history and is useful in that it helps us to understand why things are so fucked up.
If it were just the first settlers then the argument to remove the interlopers might be justified. Not the people born there. After the second generation, then the situation changed from "they don't belong there" to "they have as much of a right to live where they were born as anybody." Facts on the ground and all that.
On the other hand, I could very much support the US withdrawing all aid from Israel and joining with others in the UN to condemn human rights violations by Israels leaders. This might have the effect of making Israel even more violent but in my view, the US should get the hell out of the area. The US's policies in the area are racist as all fuck too.
You drew a like from Marwan. Ick.
You should give your property to the descendants of the native Americans who were slaughtered for it.
Hamas's charter is a piece of work. It even says that Hamas will reject any peace settlement. I don't know what "distance" means. Do they disown it? Given the rhetoric in that document -- which lives on, Marwan's bs is a faithful representation of the shit it contains -- Hamas would have to completely disown and specifically deny the document.
Mostly agree the situation is complex with many different parties and there would be many different stakeholders in any settlement.
Re “distance”; the original charter is indeed vile, however in 2017 hamas softened its stance somewhat by declaring that Palestine should be delineated with borders established in the 1967 6 day war. Netanyahu declared that Hamas was “trying to fool the world” implying there was no real change in Hamas ideology.
I think you'll find that it is the Israelis not accepting the Two State Solution (Palestinians even offered land swaps to shore up any thin borders) is the problem.
Separate names with a comma.