georgio838
Well-Known Member
luuuuuuuuuuuuvvvviiiiiiiiiitttttttt
Is the World Better off with or with out Religion? Why?
- Thread starter The_Herban_Legend
- Start date
Johnny1120
Member
First of all, I have not been Christian for some time, but I have received education regarding religion, with an emphasis on Christianity (I graduated from Liberty University). Religion serves to comfort billions of people in times when they might otherwise fall apart. This alone makes the presence of religion beneficial. Certainly religious organizations have caused a great deal of harm, but I do not feel it out weighs the benefits that religion offers a person as a support system on the personal level.
Hidden beneath the obscure morality taught by most religions is the message to never give up, that no matter how bad things might get there is both a reason and a light at the end of the tunnel representing an improved life. This hope for the future is the real commodity sold by religion, and people need this hope to function. Those of us that do not subscribe to a deity have found other ways to find that hope in our lives, but that does not make it any less necessary for others to use religion as their coping mechanism.
Unfortunately, organized religion recognizes this need in their congregation and over the years organized religion has used this to exact a cost in control over their members lives.
Hidden beneath the obscure morality taught by most religions is the message to never give up, that no matter how bad things might get there is both a reason and a light at the end of the tunnel representing an improved life. This hope for the future is the real commodity sold by religion, and people need this hope to function. Those of us that do not subscribe to a deity have found other ways to find that hope in our lives, but that does not make it any less necessary for others to use religion as their coping mechanism.
Unfortunately, organized religion recognizes this need in their congregation and over the years organized religion has used this to exact a cost in control over their members lives.
Flagg420
Well-Known Member
Organized religion is the reason we don't inhabit multiple locations in our solar system right now...
A few thousand years ago, someone took a book of basic stories meant to teach morality and used it to build a power structure with themselves on top... Then used the same thing to justify any crime committed on any number of any peoples....
Had people been taught to be moral, but have faith in humanity, to learn, educate, explore, question.... rather than accept what they were told... We might have seen a radically different human race....
Aside from the crush of knowledge religion has given us..... understand, nearly all wars ever fought.... were over religion....
Even most wars for independence are for independence from religious persecution as much as personal freedom.
Religion isn't as Johnny1120 suggests, a "comfort" its a crutch... and it serves as a club when needed.
People seek comfort from a storybook character instead of family, friends, and community. If every church were a place where communities could gather and converse, share, and comfort each other, WITHOUT having to have the overall religion rammed down their throat, they would be amazing places....
On top of it all, the worlds oldest and biggest corporation.... operates totally tax free.... and while that sounds like an asshole thing to say when you see small town churches, and local pastors...... when you consider the multimillion dollar churches and the overall budget of the megachurch.... its not small potatoes... the catholic church alone holds a pretty substantial amount of the global wealth, just in precious metals and stones.... If I dug up gold and jewels right in my own back yard, I would have to pay taxes on the value of them! What the hell does a church need lavish jewels and precious metals? Want to show me a church that is doing "good" or "God's will" ..... let them sell off all their gold and jewels, silly decorations, and buy FOOD... for people who don't have any... or build a shelter onto the church... (Yes! Share the church with the homeless! Like "Jesus" would
On the kids thing... I went to sunday school, and intend my kids to do the same.... But Jesus and Santa kinda went hand-in-hand, and when I stopped believing... I expect my kids will do the same...
I don't have a problem with sunday school because "kids christianity" is a bright cheerful way of teaching morals, and a sense of right and wrong on a universal scale. All the things they teach are the right things... just backed by a belief in "Jesus" and "God"
Just. Like. Santa.
Be good... because ______ is watching. I wouldn't deny my child either, but neither would I try to convince my child later to keep believing when they clearly lose faith... or ask me to prove it... "Baby, thats why Daddy doesn't go to church anymore" (and/or "Honey, thats why you don't see pictures of Daddy on Santa's lap")
Flagg420
Well-Known Member
Terrorists that blow up bombs strapped to themselves just came from a prayer group too... but they pray to a different God, and anyone who doesn't pray to THEIR God must die! (For God!)
Knights of the crusades had prayer groups. and bible study time...
That "bible" (I assume you refer to the Christians Holy Bible, most likely King James version[certainly not earlier, as it was punishable by death to translate the bible....until it served a purpose]) they were studying... says slavery is A-OK, I should stone my wife for the premarital sex (guys are fine of course, men wrote the book) and... yea basically every person I know is worthy of death, and eternity in hell..... Divorce.. meat on friday... cussing... hair cutting... watching porn is a hell worthy trespass people.
No, a couple bible thumpers would frighten me more than a couple of gang bangers...
bravedave
Well-Known Member
Afraid they will go all medieval on you? Your attempt at consistency will have the gang bangers leaving you wearing just your asshat which I assume is a perfect fit.
georgio838
Well-Known Member
but to be unbiased surely you should offer your children all the belief systems available such as buddhism, hinduism, islam as well as christianity etc? do you respect them enough so they can make their own choice? i believe it should be against the law to 'make' a child learn any religion & only if a child expresses their own personal interest & desire to learn one then its to be allowed, as far as teaching morals surely pure logical advice will work just as good or even better than christianities double standards & be much less confusing?, personally i found sunday school and bible study soo boring & nonsensical as a child i loathed every minute of it & still look back on it as a dark period in my childhood history, i just wanted to be a normal kid and run around & play like every other 'lucky' boy who didnt get 'the word' forced down his gullet
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bravedave
Well-Known Member
It was escaping from your, 15th century, line of thinking thst caused the creation of the "New World".
Ha!...and I bet you consider it nuanced. If you consider the hour or 2 of Sunday school the "dark period" of your youth then you recieved a pretty sugar-coated chilldhood and for that you should be grateful.
georgio838
Well-Known Member
ahhhh but dave i have slightly understated the actual time my zealot father insisted his children to study the 'babble'...total time per week averaged out at approx 15hrs...& yes indeed forcing ideologies down kids(or anyones) throats is immoral in my opinion...
bravedave
Well-Known Member
So, instead you want to give government the job of telling parents what to teach their children. How very leftist/communist of you. So China and/Russia forcing secularism down their people's thoats (and I mean FORCING, not holding back dessert or playtime) is just fine then.
Its too bad your 'zealot father' did not force 15 hours of guitar practice on you. Then you could maybe be playing in a bad band in a small bar.
Bottom line is parents have much more right to try and mold their children than anyone else. Those children can make their own decisions when they start supplying their own food and shelter. It worked for you. It worked for me.
georgio838
Well-Known Member
dave...some of your reasoning is ok..but in almost every post you make you cannot hide your spitefulness by making an unneeded verbal attack on whoever you are threading with, im here to debate common issues with anyone, just because i disagree with lots here do i need to start throwing verbal diarrhea at them?, do you? almost every christian here on riu ive noted starts making personal verbal assaults on peeps who dont agree with them...what does that say about that group as a whole? loving christians? i dont think so
georgio838
Well-Known Member
do you really think allowing children the freedom of choice of all the worlds religions & ideologies is 15th century? please enlighten me where you came to this conclusion?
bravedave
Well-Known Member
You will have to point out to me where I have attacked you and then please point out where I said I was a christian. Until then, I can only assume you do not understand my points or that you are being inventive. Yes, I did call flagg420 an asshat. Guilty...yet correct.
bravedave
Well-Known Member
Was not referring to the education of children here.
The pilgrims came to America, why? Because governments were telling them how to worship or not. The USA concluded at its founding that religious tolerance was paramount to its success. No Georgio, WE don't need OR WANT the government telling us how or what to teach our children. If your parents fucked you up then choose to do better with your own or better yet, don't have any. Don't burden me with your need for a government to do your job for you.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
How is "allowing children the freedom of choice of all the worlds religions & ideologies" the "need for a government to do your job for you."?
If "WE don't need OR WANT the government telling us how or what to teach our children.", then why do we have "In God We Trust" on our money or "..indivisible, under God..." in our pledge?
The pilgrims came to America to escape religious persecution, which makes the current Christian persecution of anyone not religious, or specifically Christian that much more ironic.. Call it what it is.. The Christian Taliban. They want Christian values implemented at the threat of death. "Believe as we do or die!"... Same as the actual Taliban..
There is no such thing as "religious tolerance" in America if you're not a Christian. "Religious tolerance" is code word for "don't bash me if I'm a Christian, but we get to bash everybody else because they're not!"
Flagg420
Well-Known Member
I feel the need to point out, as I do anytime I see this misunderstanding...
We have "In God We Trust" on our money (now) because around the time of the cold war, we wished to separate ourselves from the communists. It was a political action, backed by political means, and political motives... It had zero (0) to do with the people, their wishes, their rights, or least of all, their votes.....
"Under God" was added between 1954 as a result of Lincolns personal beliefs, the power of the Knights of Columbus in our congress, and a couple of Reps from... (sigh) Michigan... [sorry!]
Again, had nothing to do with the founding of the country (in fact went against the principals the country was founded on)
The public had nothing to do with the decision again......
The problem is... Christianity is a virus... an infection, it only spreads, and it won't hesitate to destroy any competing belief, "for their own good"
bravedave
Well-Known Member
Lol. Provide link please to these Christian Taliban? Lol
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Communism hasn't been a threat since the 1980's, we've had nearly 40 years to update the policy. The religious right wing of politics in America has stood in the way ever since. The religious right very much wants the government telling us how or what to teach our children.. They don't want anything that's not Christian, they just don't openly admit it because then they can't pull the persecution card whenever they perceive an attack..
bravedave
Well-Known Member
So you are not a serious thinker then, but a fraud with props and a big mouth. Go away.Communism hasn't been a threat since the 1980's, we've had nearly 40 years to update the policy. The religious right wing of politics in America has stood in the way ever since. The religious right very much wants the government telling us how or what to teach our children.. They don't want anything that's not Christian, they just don't openly admit it because then they can't pull the persecution card whenever they perceive an attack..
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
The Christian Taliban wants exactly what the Muslim Taliban wants
You guys have more in common than you think..