Innovating the Journey, The BHO(W) Log

Hello All!

The name is unimportant. Let me start by saying that I am in a legal state and about 5000ft above sea level. That being said, I would not recommend doing any of this unless you are as well and actually understand what you are doing. I'm sure everyone has heard the horror stories that accompany open blasting and a spark of any sort. I am a biology major studying botany at the moment so I have a decently in-depth understanding of the biology side of this but am no means a professional and understand very little of the fine details of the chemistry. I am by no means a professional and I intend to show you why(through my own mistakes and research) open blasting or extraction of any kind without an understanding of what you are doing is dangerous, knowledge is key, begin slowly and work your way up. I was once the kid who scraped up the "purged" oily mess from the bottom of a pyrex in a hot bath and called it a day(hugeeeeee mistake! Does anyone without a chamber have ay idea how much solvent is still left?!?) I have been doing research on extraction for months and after a massive failure(open blast a month ago, 2lbs of popcorn and way too much butane) I have decided to take it to the next level. The information I do find is more often than not conflicting and not definite. I understand everyone has their own methods, trade secrets, and different starting material but my aim is to provide exact details on what happens in each step and why, at least in my specific process, so that others may learn from my mistakes. Along the way I intend to test many of these variables(conflicting opinions of others on the same topic)and show exactly what happens when both methods are tested side by side. This knowledge should not be bogarted as it is by those who posses it. I have read others opinions for months with no definite test results present, no actual tutorial on how to deal with the variables that are ever present, and no full and accurate in-depth procedure(the "trade secret") The market will reach equilibrium either way whether you or I like it or not thus eliminating the need to keep these details hidden. If the true goal was to help provide medicine to those in need this would not happen but we all know capitalism has dark side. I might start a "grow log" on this site or possibly find a better place to post on here but please follow this if you are interested. I have no idea how much interest this will garner but the more feedback I get the more incentivized I will be to post my findings and continue sharing my research with the community. Please, all love here. I would love any feedback but negativity ruins it for all of us. Constructive criticism is a MUST! This will be for everyone to learn and we all learn from mistakes. If I am doing something(s) completely wrong and it offends you LET ME KNOW(please provide evidence backing your statement). It should also be noted that although this will apply to extraction of concentrates in general the purging and "blasting" is large scale and not personal sized runs. Everything other than my original open blast failure will be run through a passive closed loop best value vacs system with a reclaim tank(half lb scale). This will not change the end product, it is more for maximizing yields and for safety. Hand pumps and anything less than an actual degassing vacuum chambers and a pump will leave you with untold amounts of solvent in your product and although I appreciate you watching, please stay on the sidelines until you have proper equipment so we can keep our results consistent. Thank you for your interest! I can't wait to begin.

Shout out to @Fadedawg for all of the previous input as well. I really appreciate the advice and information.

In Minneapolis 4 years ago, the goop that was "BHO" at the time was the bees knees. No matter the consistency, no matter the spark, no matter the quality. As times and methods have changed so too has the quality of our extracts and the measure by which we judge them as well as our knowledge of the chemical reaction. I have since moved to Denver and after intense reading and observation felt the need to begin this thread. I'm sure 95%+ of the people who dig deep enough to find this are in the same position I was last month. I intended to help those who seek it, not do their research for them. I have been treated liked the geeky kid in high school for asking simple questions on my friends account on RIU and understand where those who have gained the knowledge overtime are coming, it takes time but please do not be a snob because you have a refined method and others do not. Picture yourself in their position, did you not get your method(s) from another or use the work someone else to refine your own?

If you judge now you will miss out on the important facts. I begin my quest as a young idiot with a bright outook on life. 54 cans of butane and 32 onions of popcorn(gotta get everyyyy last drop right?). YUCK! I cannot impress upon you the seriousness of using that much solvent.. The full vac @ 115 would not even begin to scratch the surface of the solvent trapped in this goo. I literally burned out my nasty 3CFM 1/3 HP single stage in two days(more on this later). First and foremost do NOT use more butane than needed. If you are open blasting(NOT recommended) stop ASAP after the liquid becomes clear, DO NOT make my mistake.

Let the fun begin!

Here is some light reading: http://skunkpharmresearch.com/

A month and a half ago I had the bright idea of trying my first large extraction and did almost everything wrong. My intention here is to prevent others from doing the same. I used a foot long glass tube and open blasted 2 lbs into a silicone tray(horrible idea, never blast into silicone), I did not use a heat source and simply let everything build up in the tray. The results were absolutely disgusting. A sickly oil that resembled over used engine oil. Not only was this extremely dangerous and explosive, it trapped an insane amount of butane in it. That was not helped by the fact that I used way too much butane in the first place. I decided to winterize it to try and fix the problem but again was left with brown disgusting oil. It was around that time I decided to begin doing research further than just watching youtube videos. I got a vacuum chamber and decided to try and purge it correctly. The product I used was extremely good trim, mostly popcorn nuggets, why not try and save it right? I am not sure how pumps reacts to ethanol but I burned mine out before I could even scratch the surface of the mess. Doing a water test I found that it would only boil with the pump running which starts around 28inHg at room temp meaning without it constantly running the chamber was holding under that amount of vacuum thus slowing down my purge. I ran it 4 hours on 2 off for a day and at 7am I heard it click, stop, and begin to smoke from the exhaust, I had to blow it out I have since gotten a replacement sent but am purchasing a 2 stage tomorrow from harbor freight down the street from me, if anyone has any pump recommendations please let me know! Oil temp was 100-115 during vac. NEVER extract a large amount in separate runs into the same tray, especially without a heat source. You will continue to trap the solvent in your oil. I am still stuck trying to fix my mistake(which was not cheap). I wanted to figure out exactly where I went wrong and discovered that extraction is indeed an art and with all of the variables. even with all else going according to plan, it is a much more complex animal than I had first believed. I decided to purchase a passive closed loop system from best value vacs and try it again with the proper equipment and a much more comprehensive understanding. If anyone has any tips on how to fix the above mentioned I would greatly appreciate it although I already consider it a loss and might decarb it for cookin. From here on out I will be extracting with the closed loop and purging at 100 in a 5 gallon chamber at full vacuum(two stage this time). The cookie will be flipped every few hours when I let the pump cool. Posted are pictures of the first mistakes and also the set up. There is also a test run slab I will post. It is a beautiful clear amber but still slightly sticky, nothing like my original attempt in fact im quite pleased but would love it to be just slightly more stable, it has been flipped and purged many times. Does anyone know why it is still sticky? I can run my fingers over it but if I leave my hand it will begin to stick. Possibly more time @100 in the chamber to be easily handled at room temp? I should also state that the goal of this thread is to provide a technique to make stable extracts. As much as we all love oil, life is easier with shatter or wax.

My camera is horrible so I apologize in advance

MinnesotaHomegrown303 said:

My camera is horrible so I apologize in advance

Click to expand...

Forgot this

The system and test run.

The goop was all winterized and from what I have read, might take up to twice as long to purge although I have no idea if this is true I will post my findings when I get my new pump. I will also update with a step by step including pictures when I do another run but that will be after the new pump and another college go at the muck.

Found this on the comments on Skunk Pharms page under the vacuum purging and processing tips. Found it extremely interesting. I also believe I burned my pump out by cold boiling too my winterized mess too long without changing my oil. It went from clear to cloudy/light amber fairly quickly. The pump was bought off ebay and below American made quality, I did not realize how important it is to get a good pump before I ordered it weeks ago. If you are looking at getting into this don't cheap out on the pump. Also be sure to change the oil regularly especially when cold boiling.

http://skunkpharmresearch.com/vacuum-purging-and-processing-tips/comment-page-1/#comments

"My 2 stage, 8cfm yellow jacket pulls down to 15 microns supposedly, but upon buying a digital vacuum gauge i notice most of the time it pulls to right around 80 to 100 if I’m using robinair high temp oil. If i use black gold oil i get down to about 250microns as it seems to break down at higher temps. Even with these losses, my pump oil appears clear.
Saying a 1 stage pump will cut it is true, BUT only if the correct oil is used with frequent oil changes (I have to change mine after the initial 4 hour purge where most of the solvent is removed. At this point my maximum vac is around 400 microns :/ and an oil change is always necessary, this is why I use my old oil from last batch no to pull the initial bulk of solvent out before changing the oil that hopefully gets me through the run.)
It’s scary, the revelations I’m having since incorporating the digital gauge, in reality the oil lubricating the vanes in the pump is the main factor in achievable microns, and i’m pretty sure if I went around checking most people’s pumps, they’d be pulling around 1000 microns max, so yeah, get a one or 2 stage pump, but neither is doing the job if you aren’t constantly monitoring vacuum with a digital gauge and changing your oil accordingly or incorporating a cold trap beforehand to avoid the issues entirely.
In my tests I’ve found that most pump oils break down at the 4 hour mark of constant pump usage due to temperature reducing the viscocity of the oil. Once the pump is cooled my micron readings go back down close to normal again until the oil is heated again. The running duration is lowered each time, i’m guessing due to degredation of the oil. Robinair High Temperature Vac oil seems to be the most stable."

It would seem that when purging larger amounts, a two stage pump would be beneficial due to degradation of pump oil. The extra microns give you more elbow room and allow you to change the oil less without losing as much vacuum but changing the oil often is the key in attaining the highest vaccum possible for your particular unit.

As my chamber is relatively new, I am not sure the gauge is acclimated to my elevation. When purging with my single stage pump the gauge would get up to 26.25-29.5 even with the pump running. I tested serveral times for several hours and found no leaks, it held pressure perfectly. I noticed that later at night(4am) it always seemed to pull to 29.5 or at least read that. Is this just my gauge? I cold boiled a glass of water as a test. The gauge stopped at 26.25 and the water was boiling/degassing @74 degrees(room temp) and I believe that starts to happen around 29inHg. When turned off the water stopped boiling(or degassing?). The system held @ 26.25 until I released it. My elevation is 5000ft so the max I should b able to pull is 24.9 but the gauge already sits at 4.9 when not in use. Should the gauge indeed read 29.5 at this elevation since my gauge seems to account for the increase in elevation already or is there a problem with my pump and or chamber? The gauge has a slight amount of free play through the lid but when tightened does not clamp down. Is that normal or should it be absolutely snug? Just thinking out loud.

credit:https://skunkpharmresearch.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/water-boiling-temperature-in-vacuum-1-1.jpg

Credit:http://skunkpharmresearch.com/vacuum-purging-and-processing-tips/comment-page-1/#comments
Great page, thank you @Fadedawg

"But for speed and still damn good terp preservation 160F@ 23.7″ Hg for a few minutes helps dry stubborn extracts. Then to 115-120F@ 29.2″Hg until it is dry. I regularly dry a quarter-half pound to wax in a few hours with this protocol. Where it takes most people days. If you bring the temp up to 160F briefly; under mild (less than 600mm Hg) vacuum, then cool to 120F under hard (740-760mm Hg) vacuum, you may have better results. This will help dry the extract quickly without much decarboxylation.. ." Once again, credit skunk pharm. I will be trying this in the morning on the mess.

"at low pressures, the small difference in 30 or even 100 microns vacuum difference isnt going to be the limiting factor in the speed of purge. the temperature of the oil, the surface area, and the depth of the puddle of oil are much more limiting factors. and unless you have a very large volume system, the cfm isnt important here. the cfm in vacuum pumps becomes important when vacuuming out large volume refrigerant systems." FOAF-https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=240818&page=2.

MinnesotaHomegrown303 said:

As my chamber is relatively new, I am not sure the gauge is acclimated to my elevation. When purging with my single stage pump the gauge would get up to 26.25-29.5 even with the pump running. I tested serveral times for several hours and found no leaks, it held pressure perfectly. I noticed that later at night(4am) it always seemed to pull to 29.5 or at least read that. Is this just my gauge? I cold boiled a glass of water as a test. The gauge stopped at 26.25 and the water was boiling/degassing @74 degrees(room temp) and I believe that starts to happen around 29inHg. When turned off the water stopped boiling(or degassing?). The system held @ 26.25 until I released it. My elevation is 5000ft so the max I should b able to pull is 24.9 but the gauge already sits at 4.9 when not in use. Should the gauge indeed read 29.5 at this elevation since my gauge seems to account for the increase in elevation already or is there a problem with my pump and or chamber? The gauge has a slight amount of free play through the lid but when tightened does not clamp down. Is that normal or should it be absolutely snug? Just thinking out loud.

Click to expand...

Bourdon tube type gauges require frequent calibration, especially when new and wearing in. I recommend using a gauge with a calibration screw, and zeroing it each run. If you always start at zero, you should always pull relatively close to current barometric pressure.

At 5000 feet, as you've noted, there is only 24.9" Hg of atmosphere left. That barometric pressure changes some with temperature, as the air becomes more dense as the temperature drops and weighs more, like at night for instance. If you pick up a barometer, you can see how much that is at any given time.

MinnesotaHomegrown303 said:

It would seem that when purging larger amounts, a two stage pump would be beneficial due to degradation of pump oil. The extra microns give you more elbow room and allow you to change the oil less without losing as much vacuum but changing the oil often is the key in attaining the highest vaccum possible for your particular unit.

Click to expand...

The boiling point of THC also falls under vacuum, and a vacuum under about 29.8" Hg, or so, brings the boiling point low enough to be sublimating, if not boiling it it off. That is why I say a single stage will do the job.

It is definitely true that the performance and life of your rotary vane pump is directly proportional to how you take care of it. I still have my original VP6S, and it pulls below 100 micron with fresh oil.

MinnesotaHomegrown303 said:

"at low pressures, the small difference in 30 or even 100 microns vacuum difference isnt going to be the limiting factor in the speed of purge. the temperature of the oil, the surface area, and the depth of the puddle of oil are much more limiting factors. and unless you have a very large volume system, the cfm isnt important here. the cfm in vacuum pumps becomes important when vacuuming out large volume refrigerant systems." FOAF-https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=240818&page=2.

Click to expand...

Good point. At the bottom end, very little performance is gained in speed, and some losses can occur boiling off part of our targeted cannabinoids and beloved monoterpenes.

3 cfm two stage just purchased from harbor freight, had to get the warranty as well. This pump looks MUCH higher quality than the ebay one. Does anyone know the conversion at this altitude for 23.7?(under 600mm Hg) I found a vacuum conversion website but am honestly rather confused by it http://www.anver.com/document/company/Reference Guides/vacuum.html. Time to have another go at purging my mess!