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If the Democrats Don't Learn This Lesson, They Deserve to Lose Forever

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Fogdog, Oct 12, 2017.

  1.  
    Fogdog

    Fogdog Well-Known Member

    You realize that your hovel is only economically possible with our socialized transportation system, don't you?

    How about explaining what you think socialism is and why it's so bad.
     
    srh88 likes this.
  2.  
    tampee

    tampee Well-Known Member

    It's communism lite.
     
  3.  
    Fogdog

    Fogdog Well-Known Member

    That's not an answer.

    Your hovel is only economically possible with our socialized transportation system, don't you? Without it your community's economy would be at the level of poverty. With it, goods and services flow into and out of your community, along with the electrical grid which was also made possible by social spending.

    re-naming this country's investment into building out the highway system and rural electrification project, "communism lite" isn't an explanation of why you hate socialism, it's just a hapless deflection. How about explaining why you think socialism or "communism lite" is so bad.
     
    srh88 and PCXV like this.
  4.  
    PCXV

    PCXV Well-Known Member

    You love authoritarian Putin, though. What's up with that?
     
  5.  
    Unclebaldrick

    Unclebaldrick Well-Known Member

    He just hates the country because he sucks at everything. That's why he loves him some Trump dick. Whatever is bad for America is what he likes. He's simple.
     
    SneekyNinja, srh88, Fogdog and 2 others like this.
  6.  
    abandonconflict

    abandonconflict Well-Known Member

    Sanders is not a socialist.
     
  7.  
    captainmorgan

    captainmorgan Well-Known Member

    That's a understatement.
     
    srh88 likes this.
  8.  
    Fogdog

    Fogdog Well-Known Member

    of course not. The term was pinned onto him by right wingers and it stuck. Arguing whether Sanders is socialist or not with those people who consider the term an insult misses the point however. I fail to see what's wrong with being called a socialist.
     
    srh88 and abandonconflict like this.
  9.  
    abandonconflict

    abandonconflict Well-Known Member

    To be fair, he is a fake socialist who embraced the term himself and yet never really connected with people occupying the lowest socioeconomic strata. Also, I never saw anything in his speeches or anything he wrote to indicate that he would have done anything to oppose the ever privatized market for everything, much less deprivatize anything.

    He's a liberal.
     
    Fogdog, srh88 and PCXV like this.
  10.  
    Fogdog

    Fogdog Well-Known Member

    Getting back to the topic of the thread, Liberal Progressives aren't all Sanders supporters but that doesn't matter to Sanders supporters. They want to own the term Progressive, but that's OK. What's important (to me in the context of this thread) is replacing the radical right wing conservatives from national office and excluding corporations as well as big money donors from the excessive power they now have.

    @st0wandgrow and other Sandernistas if you care to answer, What do you think about the last bit of that article?

    Or, if you insist on overthinking yourselves into paralysis, turn Nina Turner and the people allied with her loose and then come in at the end—cooperatively, mind you—and drown the race with money and ads. And if the Our Revolution people hold back because they don’t want somebody on the Internet to get mad at them for “selling out,” they should tell that person to shut up and dance. This is too important.

    Not being interested in Our Revolution inside politics, I don't understand the authors reference. What was he talking about?
     
    abandonconflict likes this.
  11.  
    abandonconflict

    abandonconflict Well-Known Member

    You don't fight racism with racism, you fight it with unity. Progressives need an anti racist message to connect with the people that the extreme right-wing regime in power seeks to alienate. After all, did Trump not win specifically because of his devisive message? Did Bernard not lose specifically as a result of his inability to address racial issues and connect with the people occupying the lowest socioeconomic strata?

    Ignoring the connection (still a near parallel correlation) between race and class is proven to be tantamount to abetting it.
     
  12.  
    Fogdog

    Fogdog Well-Known Member

    I don't know if you read that article but it pointed out that recent elections in the south have put two people who are black and progressive in mayoral offices in extremely conservative states. His theory is that if progressives can win there they can win anywhere. In the cases mentioned in the article, what you said is true. We can win anywhere, even in Jackson Mississippi, and maybe even in a Senatorial contest in Alabama when people who oppose the right wing agenda unify.

    Trump and the extreme right are going to own the racist vote, which is about half of all white people, probably a little more than half. To end their domination, we need to unity across racial and class lines among the people who oppose the right wing agenda.

    Unfortunately, I don't think Sandernistas like @ttystikk , @Padawanbater2 , @st0wandgrow seek unity, they seek compliance. For some reason @st0wandgrow thought I'd be upset over the victory of a black progressive in Mississippi, which means he doesn't understand the concept of unity, only liberal white supremacy. But there is still time to talk about this.
     
    Justin-case and abandonconflict like this.
  13.  
    abandonconflict

    abandonconflict Well-Known Member

    Yes, I just wanted that articulated clearly. I definitely got that from the article but I don't think the Bernouts can glean it for themselves unless it is very clearly fed to them.

    They seem to have a herd mentality. At least a drove of them are regularly posting here and are resistant to that point.
     
    SneekyNinja and Fogdog like this.
  14.  
    Fogdog

    Fogdog Well-Known Member

    Not suggesting you do, but IF you check out the Our Revolution and Justice Democrats websites, the mix of candidates endorsed on those sites is diverse. The progressive movement isn't completely in the hands of white liberals who are uncomfortable talking about racial issues due to skin color..
     
    abandonconflict likes this.
  15.  
    Padawanbater2

    Padawanbater2 Well-Known Member

    Why should I unify with a failed political tactic? What you propose has been tried for the past decade and lost. We know what wins. You're the one that seeks compliance.
     
    st0wandgrow likes this.
  16.  
    Fogdog

    Fogdog Well-Known Member

    So, the article talked about progressives who won in the south. They happen to be black, which almost by definition means they represent a change in attitude about racial issues. I think that's a good thing. Do you think that's compliance? What do you mean by compliance?
     
    abandonconflict likes this.
  17.  
    Padawanbater2

    Padawanbater2 Well-Known Member

    We support them, we're the ones promoting and pushing them the most

    This is you trying to sit on the fence, again
     
    st0wandgrow likes this.
  18.  
    Padawanbater2

    Padawanbater2 Well-Known Member

    I seek actual unity, you seek compliance. Compliance to me in this context means with the status quo. You seek to keep the same game going. I seek to change the fundamental aspect of how the game is played. I think people should begin with a fair footing, live and work in an actual meritocracy, earn what they're actually worth, and live happy and productive lives.
     
    st0wandgrow likes this.
  19.  
    Fogdog

    Fogdog Well-Known Member

    I support Sanders policies. I always have, which is why I voted for him in the primary. But the reason he lost was because his economic policies were insufficient to address racial inequality. Do you oppose people who would go farther than implementing Sanders' progressive economic policies? I absolutely agree with you that people should begin and remain on a fair footing in an actual meritocracy. Correcting racial injustice is part of that.
     
    abandonconflict likes this.
  20.  
    abandonconflict

    abandonconflict Well-Known Member

    Notice the complete lack of acknowledgement of the very thesis of this thread as he is insists, "I know you are but what am I... ".
     
    UncleBuck and Fogdog like this.

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