I need help!!

jaymz

Active Member
Hey folks i got 3 plants growing under a 200 watt envirolite which is well ventilated and is around 75 degrees F when on, they are flying dutchman pure and i got em in organic top soil, they are 7 weeks old and have been doin really well up untill about a week and a half ago when i stated to feed them some nutrients, im using canna bio vega, i stared with a quarter of what it says on the bottle and now im on a half strength, and ever since they have had yellowin with brown spots on about 4-5 leaves on each plant which have died n dropped off, but the rest of the plants look ok, i ph the soil again and its nuetral, its my 1st grow so i need help! has anyone got any advice they could give me it would b well appreciated,,
 

noel155

Active Member
i've had spotty leaves,remove them,i doubt it's 'bugs' .your plants look pretty good,prey they are fem! noel x
 

babygro

Well-Known Member
its my 1st grow so i need help! has anyone got any advice they could give me it would b well appreciated,,
Hiya jaymz

Your plants are deficient in Magnesium. To put it into check, start adding about a tablespoon of epsom salts per 4 or 5 litres of water (or a gallon) dissolved first in some warm water then added to the main irrigation water. You need to move quickly mate, it's beginning to move up the plant.

Only add it at the usual watering times please, don't start flushing the plants with tons of water with epsom salts in it in a desperate bid to cure it - you'll do it more harm than good, don't panic in other words.

You would do well to also start thinking about potting the plants up to the next pot size if they've been in there about 5 weeks - they need more nutrients generally.

I need more information about what you're doing and using, to give you more specific advice about the Magnesium problem. What compost/soil are you using and what water - tap water, distilled, mineral etc.

More often than not, Magnesium problems are caused by the irrigation water quality rather than the soil and if the water you're using isn't suitable it'll usually show you by about the 5 or 6 th week - pretty much bang on where you are.

Your organic top soil worries me somewhat - what exactly is that?
 

kindprincess

Well-Known Member
i stared with a quarter of what it says on the bottle and now im on a half strength, and ever since they have had yellowin with brown spots on about 4-5 leaves on each plant which have died n dropped off, but the rest of the plants look ok
spots? like rust colored spots? i'm sorry, i can't find my glasses this morning.

i agree with bg, the yellowing looks like mag def all the way. the spots worry me a bit, almost sounds like the beginnings of cal def too.

if you do have rust spots, in addition to the salts bg recommended, i would have you use molasses as well, one tbs per gallon.

sorry i can't be of more help, but i can't see your pix too well...:cry:

love, kp
 

babygro

Well-Known Member
i agree with bg, the yellowing looks like mag def all the way. the spots worry me a bit, almost sounds like the beginnings of cal def too.

if you do have rust spots, in addition to the salts bg recommended, i would have you use molasses as well, one tbs per gallon.
Hmmmm, not sure I agree with the Calcium reference kp. Particularly as we don't know what's causing his Mg lockout - could be excess Calcium in the irrigation water, could be a lack of Magnesium in the irrigation water, either way they wouldn't produce a Calcium deficiency.

I accept I'm a bit strident with Mg problems - it's based on actual experience of having to deal with it on my own plants. I've been plagued with Mg problems with every grow I've done - culprit being the high Calcium Carbonate in my tap water. I've only just managed to get it under control now I've got an RO machine.

The other reason I can be quite aggressive in my views is because in my early growing days, I was a victim of a badly diagnosed problem. On one of my plants the top leaves and new growth started developing rust spots and being inexperienced at the time I had no idea what it was and asked for help on two separate forums which will remain nameless.

I received advice from some 'supposedly' experienced growers, one of which had a degree in botany and worked in horticulture. Noone managed to correctly diagnose the problem. Solutions ranged from lights too low (yeah right with fluorescents 3-4 inches away, don't think so) and salt buildup - flush them. At this stage it was well into flowering and I was reluctant to flush them with plain water.

So I set about finding out enough information myself to understand what the problem was. I re-read books and searched online until I found the answer I was looking for. In Indoor Marijuana Horticulture by Jorge Cevantes on Magnesium -

Progression of Magnesium -

Right at the end of the Mg progression table -

Youngest leaves develop rust coloured spots and interveinal yellowing.

It was simply a progression and deterioration of the Mg problem I'd been suffering from.

So the bottom line is, rust spots can be and probably are a continuation and worsening of the Mg problem and not related to Calcium deficiency. I've attached the picture I showed people for a diagnosis and the rust spots and yellowing can be clearly seen.

This guys Mg problem is in advanced stages - the rust spots are connected to it.

Suffice to say, I no longer ask for peoples advice on problems - I work it out for myself.
 

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kindprincess

Well-Known Member
Hmmmm, not sure I agree with the Calcium reference kp. Particularly as we don't know what's causing his Mg lockout - could be excess Calcium in the irrigation water, could be a lack of Magnesium in the irrigation water, either way they wouldn't produce a Calcium deficiency.

I accept I'm a bit strident with Mg problems - it's based on actual experience of having to deal with it on my own plants. I've been plagued with Mg problems with every grow I've done - culprit being the high Calcium Carbonate in my tap water. I've only just managed to get it under control now I've got an RO machine.

The other reason I can be quite aggressive in my views is because in my early growing days, I was a victim of a badly diagnosed problem. On one of my plants the top leaves and new growth started developing rust spots and being inexperienced at the time I had no idea what it was and asked for help on two separate forums which will remain nameless.

I received advice from some 'supposedly' experienced growers, one of which had a degree in botany and worked in horticulture. Noone managed to correctly diagnose the problem. Solutions ranged from lights too low (yeah right with fluorescents 3-4 inches away, don't think so) and salt buildup - flush them. At this stage it was well into flowering and I was reluctant to flush them with plain water.

So I set about finding out enough information myself to understand what the problem was. I re-read books and searched online until I found the answer I was looking for. In Indoor Marijuana Horticulture by Jorge Cevantes on Magnesium -

Progression of Magnesium -

Right at the end of the Mg progression table -

Youngest leaves develop rust coloured spots and interveinal yellowing.

It was simply a progression and deterioration of the Mg problem I'd been suffering from.

So the bottom line is, rust spots can be and probably are a continuation and worsening of the Mg problem and not related to Calcium deficiency. I've attached the picture I showed people for a diagnosis and the rust spots and yellowing can be clearly seen.

This guys Mg problem is in advanced stages - the rust spots are connected to it.

Suffice to say, I no longer ask for peoples advice on problems - I work it out for myself.

i'm sorry for not sectioning your quote here...

i understand your point exactly bg; as a matter of fact, the reason i'm so big on ca def's, is because it's what i have the most problems with (for me, mg and ca go hand in hand, my water is incredibly soft, and lacks vital micros)

i never get ca def's in soil, as i use molasses, but, at the same time, i've never let my mg go as far as develop any spotting.

and... i still can't find my glasses :p i'm doing good reading the text.

and........ you said coloured; i love you :mrgreen:

kp
 

jaymz

Active Member
the soil is a 25L bag i got from focus d.i.y store it says organic blend top soil on the bag and is ideal 4 new beds and borders replacing old soil and making compost, sounds like i got the wrong stuff, bollox, and it says made with sterilised loam. im using tap water i got stored in a 5 gallon water dispencer bottle with my nutes mixed in at half strenght the bottle recomends 10ml to every 5L. (canna bio vega) organic.

have i got the right nutes and the right strenght mixed?

and my soil, is it good enough.

when i repot do i just put it in a biger pot, and what do i do with the soil in and around the roots?
 

babygro

Well-Known Member
the soil is a 25L bag i got from focus d.i.y store it says organic blend top soil on the bag and is ideal 4 new beds and borders replacing old soil and making compost, sounds like i got the wrong stuff, bollox, and it says made with sterilised loam. im using tap water i got stored in a 5 gallon water dispencer bottle with my nutes mixed in at half strenght the bottle recomends 10ml to every 5L. (canna bio vega) organic.

have i got the right nutes and the right strenght mixed?

and my soil, is it good enough.

when i repot do i just put it in a biger pot, and what do i do with the soil in and around the roots?
Hiya

Sorry I wasn't able to answer your question tonight, but I'll try and answer it tommorow :)
 

babygro

Well-Known Member
the soil is a 25L bag i got from focus d.i.y store it says organic blend top soil on the bag and is ideal 4 new beds and borders replacing old soil and making compost, sounds like i got the wrong stuff, bollox, and it says made with sterilised loam.
Hiya Jaymz, sorry for the delay getting back to you.

The soil you've got is not really ideal for pot plants - it's intended for use outside in gardens. What you want ideally is a basic Multi-Purpose peat based Compost with added John Innes if you can get some. The Arthur Bowers range is quite good, or try the DIY stores own brand if they do one, but stay away from anything from Miracle Gro please.

Also, while you're at it, pick up a bag of perlite, Wilkinsons do it in 5L bags for about £1.50 or so. Mix in some perlite at about 2-3 parts ratio. ie 8 parts compost to 2 parts perlite and mix it in well.

im using tap water
If you're in the UK, which you are, that's an uh oh and is probably what's causing your Magnesium problems. Get some distilled water or bottled mineral water and mix it at about 50/50 with your tapwater.

i got stored in a 5 gallon water dispencer bottle with my nutes mixed in at half strenght the bottle recomends 10ml to every 5L. (canna bio vega) organic.
It's not a good idea for a whole variety of reasons to store water in a container ready mixed with nutrients. Mix up your feed water (50/50 tap/distilled or whatever) each time you're ready to use it and add in the nutrients there and then - don't let it sit about.

Canna Bio Vega is fine for soil, but use it at about 1/4 strength rather than 1/2, 1/2 is probably too strong. Don't feed your plants for at least 3-4 weeks after you repot them.

have i got the right nutes and the right strenght mixed?
See above :)

and my soil, is it good enough.
Ditto!

when i repot do i just put it in a biger pot, and what do i do with the soil in and around the roots?
Okay, what you want to do is pot up to a slightly larger pot so you have room for more soil. Wait till the plants need their watering, so the soil is dryish and will hold together the rootball when you pull it out of the pot.

Put some newspapers down and gently squeeze the sides of the pot to release the rootball from the pot sides. Turn the plant and pot so it's horizontal, scrape off any lose soil at the top of the pot before you tip the rootball out.

Now this is the tricky part and requires some manual dexterity!

With the pot and plant horizontal, with one of your hands (depends if you're right or left handed) slip the stem near the top soil through your first and second or second and third fingers and lightly and gently hold the top of the soil, turn the pot upwards whilst holding the top of the soil in the palm of your hand and stem through fingers and gently slide the pot off - you should almost end up holding the plant upside down, as you hold the top of the soil in your hand. If the pot won't come off easily, gently poke a pencil through one of the holes on the underside and push gently that should release it. You can now gently either hold the stem firmly and place the plant bottom of the soil down on the newspaper or lightly hold it by the top of the soil and put it down that way. Try not to touch or disturb the roots at all - they're very sensitive.

Now fil your new pot with soil/perlite up to a point where the plant rootball and soil will sit on top of it and the top of the soil should be level with the top of the pot. Hold it in position whilst you fill in the sides of the pot with soil and gently push it down. Don't compact it, ie don't push it down firmly, do it lightly, the watering will compact it down.

Now you're ready to water. Add a drop of Superthrive (1 drop per 4 litres) or 1 mil per litre of Seaweed Extract if you have any to your irrigation water and saturate the plant, till about 10% runs out of the bottom of the pot. Don't go mad so 50% of it comes out - take it slowly and add it a little at a time so you only get about 10% run off - otherwise you'll just leach the nutrients from the soil.

Watch the plant for signs of improvement, if it continues to yellow those leaves and more of them, add about 1 teaspoon of epsom salts per litre of water at the next watering. You can get Epsoms from Garden Centres in packets (cheapest) or you can get it from a Chemists or Boots.

Let us know how it goes please.
 

jaymz

Active Member
bg ur my hero! hey man thanx alot that will help me loads.

i'll keep u posted when they have perked up

love and respect, & thanks again,,
 
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