Hydrogardens.com Dry Nutrient Lovers Unite!
- Thread starter ttystikk
- Start date
Flowki
Well-Known Member
How accurate is that npk use chart from advanced?. Was looking to ramp up and decrease gradually on that as the frame work. It does not appear to show high amount for sulfur nor does it show the massive reduction in bloom N people drop to.
I've also been trying to figure out a noob thing. A value on say P will state 25 but then in brackets it will state say (14 as yada yada). Do the brackets mean that is the only amount that is available to the plant or just what type that part is made up of. I feel like I should know this.
I've also been trying to figure out a noob thing. A value on say P will state 25 but then in brackets it will state say (14 as yada yada). Do the brackets mean that is the only amount that is available to the plant or just what type that part is made up of. I feel like I should know this.
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churchhaze
Well-Known Member
It is you who doesn't understand the concept of nuance. When you already have enough sulfate, you don't need more. The same goes with phosphate. His base nutes provide enough of both potassium and sulfate. Adding potassium sulfate would be a big mistake. Besides that, his P is already at a threshold low level, adding more S could easily cause phosphorous deficiency. MKP is the obvious choice to supplement his base nutrients, not potassium sulfate.... infact, I can't think of a worse thing to add than potassium sulfate.
It's kind of silly how you could know so little about hydroponic nutrients yet suggest that I'm the one that doesn't get it. You could learn a lot from me, you're just too stubborn to believe it. I'll trade you some of my basic chemistry skills for some of your genetics....
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churchhaze
Well-Known Member
It's pretty stupid if you ask me. I've been growing with DIY salts since 2009, but I probably don't know what I'm doing! I'm on iteration number 19 of my formula. You'd have to be pretty thick to think don't I get nutrients.
I am the one you should talk to if you want to learn about nutrients.
I am the one you should talk to if you want to learn about nutrients.
Morbid Angel
Well-Known Member
thats why I tagged you, along with others I that I thought would contribute. Appreciate your input and those of everyone else. I take peoples advise into consideration, however, I do like to tweak and tune everything that I do so it is important for me to see/hear all matters of opinions.
Thank you RM3, Church and ttystik for your input. All of your grows are unique from each others, they're all good despite their differences, and so shall mine be as well.
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churchhaze
Well-Known Member
That's a conversion factor. For some reason the P in NPK means P2O5 equivalent even though P2O5 isn't really useful to plants.
Conversion Factors
P₂O₅ convert to P = x 0.43 P convert to P₂O₅ = x 2.29
K₂O convert to K = x 0.83 K convert to K₂O = x 1.2
CaO convert to Ca = x 0.72 Ca convert to CaO = x 1.4
MgO convert to Mg = x 0.6 Mg convert to MgO = x 1.6
SO₃ convert to S = x 0.4 S convert to SO₃ = x 2.5
http://www.indigrow.com/npk-inputs
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
While I too add Potassium Sulfate (my go to K source) through out the grow, for a higher K base/w the added S. (2 points in veg and then 3 more in bloom and 3 more at week 5). I do make sure that my Mg source is other then a sulfate, and I generally kick the P up a bit - IF I throw a Mgsulfate based "trich and terp" kicker on like the Sweet raw copy - If I'm keeping the P lower for certain strains. In hydro - pH becomes critical to monitor if you practice this. I tended to run it a cpl of tenths higher then.
That higher K sulfate boosting DOES aid the potential coloring trait in any strain! In fact that's the amount I listed to someone else asking about ways to enhance coloring without the ability of lowering night temps much. One of the reasons I like a higher K. I find higher K delivers better across the board in the end.....
Of course - I don't hydro anymore.....I'm an organic soil guy and still play with organic rated things like K2SO4 and MgSO4 not to mention my Nitrogen source's.
Someone mentioned "SUBCOOL's soil mix"......I don't like it! I don't get this layering thing anyway! Same with The REV's mix!
So many better things to use and in a simpler, easier mix. Composting is king and running your own worm bins is queen. You can base so much of your nutrition from your compost by simply adding certain plant matter......Anyway enough on organic, not the place or time.
As for when I did hydro and controlled my NPK. I still liked a higher K. I'm pretty sure I used a bit more P&K in hydro vs. N in ratio. I've listed it somewhere here before in actual values run as a base....I would adjust to strain from those.
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GrowUrOwnDank
Well-Known Member
Loving the thread! Yeah all that science is over my head and hurts my brain. I am going to have to stick with my simple Maxibloom Lucas Formula and not just for MJ. I'm using it on my peppers and everything else. I don't know what its doing but, it's so easy and it works.
So to justify us dudes who just buy some stuff and mix it up. One reason is because we grow on a smaller scale. If I were to have a full blown garden with all kinds of veggies or especially a commercial crop. Using your methods would be the ideal way to dial in your grow. I don't know tho, just a small scoop of premixed powder is so easy and it works.
Now. If you want to package your mix and sell it at a fair price on eBay? Well, I'm certainly interested. But, this little 2 pound bag of Maxibloom is lasting forever. I think i paid like $15-$20. Might be worth considering bro. Another revenue stream and I don't need no fancy bag. A strong ziplock with instructs would be just fine.
Anyway, great thread man.
Edit. Just realized this thread is from 2014. lol. And I'm just now seeing it. Still a great thread tho n
So to justify us dudes who just buy some stuff and mix it up. One reason is because we grow on a smaller scale. If I were to have a full blown garden with all kinds of veggies or especially a commercial crop. Using your methods would be the ideal way to dial in your grow. I don't know tho, just a small scoop of premixed powder is so easy and it works.
Now. If you want to package your mix and sell it at a fair price on eBay? Well, I'm certainly interested. But, this little 2 pound bag of Maxibloom is lasting forever. I think i paid like $15-$20. Might be worth considering bro. Another revenue stream and I don't need no fancy bag. A strong ziplock with instructs would be just fine.
Anyway, great thread man.
Edit. Just realized this thread is from 2014. lol. And I'm just now seeing it. Still a great thread tho n
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RM3
Well-Known Member
The don't get it part is in terms of bein open minded. I get that that you know nutes and if I had such a question you'd be one that I would ask. But to discover new things one must think outside the box. The stuff I do makes the herb better and that is all that matters to me. I have spent years tryin things, doin experiments, I have gone from smokin bowls (yes plural) of hash for my medical needs to just half a joint of bud. While most folks focus on yield and bag appeal, I focus on the high because it is what I need to offset my compound PTSD. People joke about the folks that follow me bein in a cult lol but the truth is that they are medical patients not yielders (cash croppers ) My methods bring out the complex highs of yesteryear, just a couple hits can last up to 8 hours with ZERO tolerance issues and Church there are folks out there that need this type/kind of medicine. Thru many grows for many years I have figured a few things out in terms of how to get these qualities from the plant and it works which is why a few folks listen. You enjoy bashin the T5's but the simple truth is they grow better herb, and I'm not the only one sayin it. And I'd be happy to share my gear with ya contrary to what you might think I actually like ya and enjoy readin your post
Flowki
Well-Known Member
Sorry I tried to read but failed to comprehend.
2:1:4
Total N 15
8.1 No3
0.0 No4
7.0 Ureic
I understand the above as it adds up.
Total P 6.9 (3.0)
Total K 32.0 (26.5)
Mag 3.0 (1.9)
Are you saying the (3.0) in that P value converts into the total 6.9%? stated.
Morbid Angel
Well-Known Member
Where can I find your ratio or can you recall it and post it, its hard to take value from your adding KOS in each stage of growth with out a base line NPK.. I have to see the whole picture to run it in my mind.
I thought the same too. Glad I have a seen the merited use!
S can cause a K deficiency? So lets say for example if I was running GDP and really wanted my purple to pop out, the last week of nutrients I could do a CalNit & KOS or some form of 3-0-4 value to coax my purples out through deficiency?
I dont run a strain like this atm but this is potentially very useful. There are GDP cuts in my area, as well as some other Purple cuts I may have to try this out one day.
Morbid Angel
Well-Known Member
Love this post.But to discover new things one must think outside the box.
... contrary to what you might think I actually like ya and enjoy readin your post
Here is a great example of two "extremes"
While it IS important to think outside the box in order to make discoveries, personal or otherwise, it is ALSO important to have your foundation based in known science and fact. This is how I try and operate.
If I had more room, I would do side project small test grows where I could be more adventurous with acceptable risk. One day. For now I must use every piece of real-estate to my advantage.
3-1-2 is a proven npk ratio, thats why I went with the nutrients I did, though favouring the flowering stage a bit more, I will see what I can do to bring my K down in veg.
This dry nutrient thing is attractive to me for more than the cost savings, there is a potential here for mischievous adventures in alchemy!
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
You keep talking about higher K but it seems like you also won't look at this in a nuanced way. Higher than what?
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Carolina Dream'n
Well-Known Member
It worked great drain-to-waste. Not so well in a recirculating system. So I no longer use it. I do use their potassium silicate though.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Everyone's stuff is amazing in 2016. Quit talking like you're the only one that grows good weed. Everyone grows for quality, not just you. You might not believe this, but my intention is also to grow high quality weed. What you refuse to accept is that yield and quality go hand in hand.The don't get it part is in terms of bein open minded. I get that that you know nutes and if I had such a question you'd be one that I would ask. But to discover new things one must think outside the box. The stuff I do makes the herb better and that is all that matters to me. I have spent years tryin things, doin experiments, I have gone from smokin bowls (yes plural) of hash for my medical needs to just half a joint of bud. While most folks focus on yield and bag appeal, I focus on the high because it is what I need to offset my compound PTSD. People joke about the folks that follow me bein in a cult lol but the truth is that they are medical patients not yielders (cash croppers ) My methods bring out the complex highs of yesteryear, just a couple hits can last up to 8 hours with ZERO tolerance issues and Church there are folks out there that need this type/kind of medicine. Thru many grows for many years I have figured a few things out in terms of how to get these qualities from the plant and it works which is why a few folks listen. You enjoy bashin the T5's but the simple truth is they grow better herb, and I'm not the only one sayin it. And I'd be happy to share my gear with ya contrary to what you might think I actually like ya and enjoy readin your post
Straight up, I don't even believe your stuff is better than mine, and I won't believe it until I actually smoke yours. I don't care what your cult members say. Until I try it, you're full of shit. The only thing I've seen is 25% THCA, which is good, but also normal these days. It's not exclusive to people who use way too much blue and overfeed sulfur.
Edit: I wouldn't be giving you this much shit if you didn't imply other people's weed is mids.
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Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
This was my go to starting NPK in soils 3-2.5-3 ans I would add 0-0-2 for many strains (3-2.5-5). This was in veg, in soil (Potters Gold - depleted). Watering/feeding everyday a metered amount that would carry it over to the next day.
AT the flip I would adjust to 4-3-3.5 (4-3-5.5) if adjusted K from veg) and add 0.0.3 - again for chosen strains (4-3-8.5). I would for others hold the K here and increase again at week - over and above the P&K boost value applied at that time.
At week 4 I would boost the PK value by 0-7-5 so mostly it would be 4-10-13.5 and I would up the K again at week 5 to 4-10-16.5
Soil NPK feed values with NO added K
3-2.5-3 for veg
4-3-3.5 for bloom
4-10-8.5 PK boost at week 4
IN HYDRO, ebb or dwc - 33% add back rule used
(All compared to the above values)
I ran in veg
N = .5 lower
P = .5 lower
K = .5 higher!
At the "flip"
Add .5 N
Add 2.0 P
Add 2.0 K
At the week 4 "boost"
Add 9.0 P
Add 7.5 K
SOMETIMES I liked to to play with a late stage booster like at week 5 one application and at week 6 and 7, then discontinue. Sometimes only weeks 6&7....
The NPK of that was 0-9-19 ..... I would apply a high quality Humic and Fulvic 2 days before use at every week.
You asked - There you go!
Some Sativa strains were ran lower and for sure landrace were run lower.
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MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
Dr Who. Have you seen real results tweaking these values in a soil grow? (I have used potters gold as well as other mixes). Seems real specific for a buffered grow like amended soil. How do you know what the citations are even holding on to in there?
I have been having better results with a regular medium dose of a complete grow nute after the soil is depleted. Then about halved to the end finishing with just well water the last 2 times or so for a mild fade. Trying ocean forest and the fox farm liquid trio for convenience as it is sold in my little out of the way town. I have to mix the retarted grow and bloom for balance even at week 7 usually. Or typical bloom nute leaf drop and chlorosis will result.
Combined the NPK is about 232. Not recommended but works fine if fed properly.
I am considering dyna grow as my only fertilizer to add. I need a bit of mag and calcium as my well water is a nice .3 EC. Great for no calcium buildup at my faucets but not quite enough for minerals for all hybrids.
I have been lurking quite some time around here. You have very strong knowledge and experience I respect immensely. Thanks in advance for your answers.
I have been having better results with a regular medium dose of a complete grow nute after the soil is depleted. Then about halved to the end finishing with just well water the last 2 times or so for a mild fade. Trying ocean forest and the fox farm liquid trio for convenience as it is sold in my little out of the way town. I have to mix the retarted grow and bloom for balance even at week 7 usually. Or typical bloom nute leaf drop and chlorosis will result.
Combined the NPK is about 232. Not recommended but works fine if fed properly.
I am considering dyna grow as my only fertilizer to add. I need a bit of mag and calcium as my well water is a nice .3 EC. Great for no calcium buildup at my faucets but not quite enough for minerals for all hybrids.
I have been lurking quite some time around here. You have very strong knowledge and experience I respect immensely. Thanks in advance for your answers.
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Tim Fox
Well-Known Member
checkin out the web site, cant seem to find the dry fert ?
is it these guys?
https://hydro-gardens.com/product-category/fertilizers/
is it these guys?
https://hydro-gardens.com/product-category/fertilizers/
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
The don't get it part is in terms of bein open minded. I get that that you know nutes and if I had such a question you'd be one that I would ask. But to discover new things one must think outside the box. The stuff I do makes the herb better and that is all that matters to me. I have spent years tryin things, doin experiments, I have gone from smokin bowls (yes plural) of hash for my medical needs to just half a joint of bud. While most folks focus on yield and bag appeal, I focus on the high because it is what I need to offset my compound PTSD. People joke about the folks that follow me bein in a cult lol but the truth is that they are medical patients not yielders (cash croppers ) My methods bring out the complex highs of yesteryear, just a couple hits can last up to 8 hours with ZERO tolerance issues and Church there are folks out there that need this type/kind of medicine. Thru many grows for many years I have figured a few things out in terms of how to get these qualities from the plant and it works which is why a few folks listen. You enjoy bashin the T5's but the simple truth is they grow better herb, and I'm not the only one sayin it. And I'd be happy to share my gear with ya contrary to what you might think I actually like ya and enjoy readin your post
Hopefully all of us get better at growing and find our stuff getting tastier and more potent as we learn and practice. There are many methods that produce great pot. Seems to me genetics is as important as any other aspect. It all has to be right to have real connisours pot.
I can say exactly the same thing about my product as you are saying about yours. But I am back to using only HPS. My plants responded better in both yeild and potency when I removed the MH. I was using one each Hortilux blue and Super HPS. For the full spectrum partly from info learned in your personal threads and a lot of other research.
It did look way better to my eyes with the more natural looking light in there.
I think your results are from experience and plenty of watts surrounding your plants. Not the exact spectrum. Your buds look very nice. But I don't think they look higher quality than mine and I worked very hard and consulted the breeder of my strains for advise the whole time. As you all keep saying. The Internet and hydro store steered me wrong with mis information.
And NASA and many university studies as well as Ed Rosenthal and Mel Frank's years of studies have come to the conclusion that watts of the more intense light provides more par to the plants. For yeild and potency.
For my money. Horticultural HPS wins in my room. What will you do if you smoke something you like more than yours and it was grown with an HPS bulb and advanced nutes. Scrap your whole set up and start teaching something else?
MichiganMedGrower
Well-Known Member
By the way. The bud in my avatar is a CH9 Black Widow x Blue Lemon Thai with Original CH9, Shantibaba and Motorebel genetics.
It must have reached its genetic potential in my outdated old school ventilated HPS garden as it is pictured in the breeders catalog and has been referred to green candy press for consideration in a glossy strain book.
Here it is for credibility and showing off. Hope you all like it. It got me high as a kite for hours with 2 tokes. And took two years of constant practice with a perpetual garden and learning and asking questions to be able to grow it.
It must have reached its genetic potential in my outdated old school ventilated HPS garden as it is pictured in the breeders catalog and has been referred to green candy press for consideration in a glossy strain book.
Here it is for credibility and showing off. Hope you all like it. It got me high as a kite for hours with 2 tokes. And took two years of constant practice with a perpetual garden and learning and asking questions to be able to grow it.