Hydrobuddy

sidewing

Well-Known Member
So if you've ever been interested in creating an exact nutrient profile and breaking free from the money pit that hydro companies are, hopefully this will be of some use.

Don't know if this is the right place for this, but I thought a thread on how to use hydrobuddy where anyone can input their knowledge would be helpful for those who are having problems with it. I know I was at first, and I'm sure I still don't understand it fully. But I know enough to formulate and that's what I'm gonna attempt to share.

so the program opens and looks very overwhelming if it's your first time, simply click on the main page tab.

You click the substance selection.

Here is where you're gonna add your salts that you have in your possession. (Don't use the presets, it's best to enter the exact percentages of the salts you have to ensure accuracy)

Click + Add Custom

Type A name, you can put the chemical formula if you have it, if not just delete that portion. On concentration type, if you're doing multiple stocks (such as A, B, C, D) enter the letter here. typically you'd want to add silica (agsil) first, so that'd be a part A. part B would be calcium nitrate, which you'd want separate from the rest. C would be everything else (typically) minus your micro nutrients.. D would be micro's. at least this is the way i do it. if you aren't mixing multiple bottles of separated stock then just delete this part and make sure you leave it blank when you add your ingredient.

so look at the label of your salt and enter the percentage it says into the appropriate field. purity and cost 100.

I usually put two dashes (--) in front of my salts, so they show up at the top of the list.

have only the salts you made on the right side of the list (this is what ingredients its using to formulate your target goals).. close this small popup to go back to the main page tab.

Now you want to enter your PPM target goals on the list. I use individual chelated micro nutrients instead of STEM (prepackaged micro nutrient mix) because it's better for hydro, and also so I can target an exact nutrient profile instead of being stuck to STEM's ppm levels of micro nutrients.

N (NO3-): enter your nitrogen PPM goal (i use 100-150 depending on light intensity, t5's do fine with 100, under a 1k i'd go up to 150)
P: i use 50
K: i use 200

Mg: i use 50
Ca: i use 100
S: I use 75

Fe: i use 3
Zn: i use 0.4
B: I use 0.3
Mn: I use 1
Cu: i use 0.2
Mo: I use 0.1
Na: I set to 0 (but one of the micro's has a little Na, which is fine and probably beneficial)
Si: i use 46
Cl: I use 0

then on the right where it says volume, i use 1 Liter stocks for my concentrate.. you can use 1 gallon if you want or whatever.. this is going to calculate how much salts you add to what size stock container you specify (like i said i use 1l)

select ppm concentration

select grams

below that select concentrated A + B

for concentration factor this is where you calculate what your application to your res is going to be.. I'll attempt to explain this to make sense. I make this number apply to gallons.. this will be the same no matter what you set on the part earlier (i use 1 liter stock, if you use 1 gallon stock or something else this part is still the same).. so 1 ounce is 30ml... and there's 128 ounces in a gallon. so by setting your concentration factor to 128 (number of ounces in a gallon), your application rate is 30ml per gallon. if you were to set your concentration factor to 256 you'd apply 15ml per gallon.. i use 128 cause it allows a larger margin for error while measuring your dose.. being 2ml off on 30ml is not as big of a deal as being 2ml off on an application rate of 5ml per gallon.. for example.

input desired concentration should already be selected below.

so you click carry out calculation.

it should say carried out successfully.. if it says something (one of your ingredients) is not used.. go back and remove it from the list on the right inside the substance selection (pushing delete just moves it back to the left list, it doesn't delete it forever, it just means you arent using it in your current mix calculations)... if you don't remove ingredients not being used it makes calculations not as accurate for some reason.

Next to your target PPM's you entered, it'll tell you what it was able to get it to based on your ingredients, it gets it as close as possible. the program uses sulfur as the most variable because typically sulfur isn't as problematic as other ingredients. (why i decided to go with sulfuric acid as my ph down as was recommended to me)

Click on the results tab on top, and it will show you (starting with the letter of the stock bottle it belongs in. if ingredients are incompatible in the same bottle it will tell you when you click calculate) how many grams to add to whatever amount of stock you specified.. once again i use 1 liter stocks. so in my case I fill half of the 1 liter bottle with RO/distilled water.. add the ingredients for that particular part, then fill the rest of the way with water until its at the appropriate level (1 liter). shake well, let it sit for 5 mins then shake again.

It'll tell you your EC below (mine comes out to 1.4 ec which is 700ppm on the 0.5 conversion rate)..

To the left of the EC value is the list of the results ppm again, and the gross error, meaning how far off your target levels it is. obviously negative percentage means its lower than your target, positive means it's over.

that's pretty much it, i put the ingredient name and gram values into notepad and print it.. I'm sure there's so much more this program can do, but this is how i use it to formulate my formulas, and when i use it i find it to be exactly accurate on the EC.

If anyone else uses this program and wants to chime in please do, this thread is intended to be an open discussion that we can all learn and grow from.

I believe this is the official download link, if i'm wrong please post the correct link.

http://scienceinhydroponics.com/

Cheers.
 

SLITLOS

Well-Known Member
I've been doing it this way for years and can't see any reason why I'd ever go back.
Hello CH, I'm looking for a good formula for outdoor grown
autos till I finish my cob light so I can discreetly grow indoors.
Can you point me in the right direction, I've been weighing my
own fruit/vegetable nutes for 10 or so years. Will be run to
waste in coir, maybe 50-50 mix with perlite.
SLITLOS
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
The ppms I posted originally are in my opinion the proven ideal ratios for cannabis across all stages of growth.. Npk of 3 1 4.. Ca should be equal to a little lower than n. P should be equal to half of s and around a third of n. K should be double ca. Mg should be half to a third of ca. And the micros are a range, I just stuck with the modified Steiner values.

Having your profile in proper balance is the most important factor of proper uptake and availability.

Hopefully churchhaze will chime in with his opinion.
 

SLITLOS

Well-Known Member
The ppms I posted originally are in my opinion the proven ideal ratios for cannabis across all stages of growth.. Npk of 3 1 4.. Ca should be equal to a little lower than n. P should be equal to half of s and around a third of n. K should be double ca. Mg should be half to a third of ca. And the micros are a range, I just stuck with the modified Steiner values.

Having your profile in proper balance is the most important factor of proper uptake and availability.

Hopefully churchhaze will chime in with his opinion.
Thanks for the reply, I actually downloaded the Mac version of HB at lunch
time(now midnight here), but still was not sure what % to use.
Their's no bottle shops here, so it's DYI.
SITLOS
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply, I actually downloaded the Mac version of HB at lunch
time(now midnight here), but still was not sure what % to use.
Their's no bottle shops here, so it's DYI.
SITLOS
I think sidewing's recipe looks pretty good. The only thing I'd change would be reducing the amount of Mo. You also don't need Si.

Hydrobuddy has a lot of recipes built into the database as well.

You'll need the salts of course.

Potassium nitrate
Calcium nitrate (yara)
magnesium sulfate
monopotassium phosphate
iron dtpa
zinc edta
sodium borate (edited.. forgot this one! it's solubor)
manganese sulfate
sodium molybdate

If you can get those, you're basically all set. You can make a + b stock solutions out of that.
 
Last edited:

sidewing

Well-Known Member
A good place to order salts:
customhydronutrients.com
If you'd like I can put direct links to the exact products.
I'm in dwc so I supply silica
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
here's some useful info, starting with the exact salts i use:

Monopotassium Phosphate:
https://customhydronutrients.com/zencart/haifa-mkp-c-1_46_29_183.html?zenid=097u6pm4j4oun5vb0fi98cpkb2

Potassium Nitrate:
https://customhydronutrients.com/zencart/haifa-multik-greenhouse-grade-c-1_46_28_322.html

Magnesium Sulfate:
https://customhydronutrients.com/zencart/magnesium-sulfate-c-1_48_31.html

Calcium Nitrate:
https://customhydronutrients.com/zencart/yaraliva-calcinit-c-1_44_62_373.html

Potassium Silicate:
https://customhydronutrients.com/zencart/potassium-silicate-c-1_60_68.html

Sodium Molybdate:
https://customhydronutrients.com/zencart/sodium-molybdate-8-dry-ounces-p-564.html?cPath=1_50_56&zenid=dute8955l4pq07ivtd9sfn7fu3

Solubor:
https://customhydronutrients.com/zencart/solubor-one-pound-container-p-160.html?cPath=1_50_54_94&zenid=dute8955l4pq07ivtd9sfn7fu3

Zinc EDTA:
https://customhydronutrients.com/zencart/zinc-edta-14-one-pound-p-440.html?cPath=1_50_98_309_311&zenid=dute8955l4pq07ivtd9sfn7fu3

Mananese EDTA:
https://customhydronutrients.com/zencart/mananese-edta-13-one-pound-p-438.html?cPath=1_50_98_309_312&zenid=dute8955l4pq07ivtd9sfn7fu3

Copper EDTA:
https://customhydronutrients.com/zencart/copper-edta-15-one-pound-p-435.html?cPath=1_50_98_309_310&zenid=dute8955l4pq07ivtd9sfn7fu3

Iron DTPA:
https://customhydronutrients.com/zencart/10-iron-dtpa-chelated-one-pound-p-86.html?cPath=1_50_100&zenid=dute8955l4pq07ivtd9sfn7fu3

Soluble Fulvic Acid Powder:
https://customhydronutrients.com/zencart/soluble-fulvic-acid-one-pound-p-425.html?cPath=118_289_290&zenid=7g5qs0kqmh4ufj2cqe8sr3arc7

(i purchased a 50lb bag of potassium sulfate long ago for like 25 dollars locally, used in my part E finisher)

------------

weigh and mix each part to 1 liter of RO/Distilled water and apply at 30ml/gal

Part A (Si):
AgSil: 24.5g

Part B (N,Ca):
Calcium Nitrate: 65.6g

part C (N,P,K,Mg,S):
Magnesium Sulfate: 67.4g
Monopotassium Phosphate: 29.1g
Potassium Nitrate: 27.6g

Part D (Micros):
solubor: 0.19g
iron: 3.9g
manganese: 1g
copper: 0.2g
zinc: 0.4g
sodium molybdate: 0.02g

Part E (last 2 week finisher addition):
Fulvic Acid: 13g
Magnesium Sulfate: 27g
Potassium Sulfate: 25g
Sucanat: 25g

---------------------

so i apply each part at 30ml per gallon.. 2 weeks before harvest i apply at 15ml per gallon and part E full strength at 30ml per gallon.. then 1 week before harvest i go just part E alone at 30ml per gallon. Sulfur, Magnesium, sucanat (carb/sweetener) and fulvic acid at the end make your herb very smooth and flavorful (in my opinion, you can research it).

I also use sulfuric acid (battery acid from Autozone) as my PH down. Previously i would use Advanced Nutrients PH down which is good stuff and more stable.. but its phosphoric acid, meaning its raising my P levels in my nutrients.. i don't want that. having additional sulfur in the mix is much more forgiving than any other element, and extra sulfur is beneficial in my opinion.

16MuldersChartTrace.jpg
 

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SLITLOS

Well-Known Member
Many Thanks to both of you for the input, 2 things, I use Fe EDTA, and
was told that it is what you want when your pH is in a xxx-pH range and
you use DTPA when it's in a higher pH range?
CH, did you not use or did you forget the Cu?
Here where stick came from, I can buy all the salts in my local ag supply
or a little bit cheaper with shipping from the big city.
On the HB calculator, you can put in EDTA or Sulphate for the micros?
I use Cu & Fe EDTA, but the rest of the vegetable nutes I make I use
the sulphate as a cost cutting.
Thanks again, a great day, got this going in the right direction, got a new
calibrated 4 part vegetable formula from OZ(AU) and after 3 days of sprouting
I got 13 for 13, now planted and watered by the rain. Micromachine, Ironflow
and Amnesia Auto 5 show the most vigor.
SLITLOS
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
yes you want to create your own 'additive' as i listed in original post and not use the presets, so the percentages match your product. i do all individual micros with hydro buddy, you can also buy a premix "STEM" but i find the ratios to be not ideal. but as long as you create your own salts and don't use the presets and plug in all the appropriate percentages itll calculate it for you. just note in hydro using sulfur based micro's can cause uptake issues as its not very mobile.. itll work fine in soil though, in dwc i ran into issues which is why i use all chelated micro nutrients. a pound of each micro will last you a lifetime.

there's EDDHA, ETDA, and DTPA.. different chelating agents.

it's my understanding that Iron DTPA is the most stable. the others break down outside their ideal ph range (EDTA around 5 to 6, DTPA higher than 8 and EDDHA over 9).. keep in mind I run DWC which if you arent familiar with it is pure hydro.. a bucket of water and roots with an airstone pumping air to the water. but using EDTA, unless your water is below a ph of 6.0 it's not gonna be so stable..

http://scienceinhydroponics.com/2010/08/iron-sources-in-hydroponics-which-one-is-the-best.html
 

SLITLOS

Well-Known Member
yes you want to create your own 'additive' as i listed in original post and not use the presets, so the percentages match your product. i do all individual micros with hydro buddy, you can also buy a premix "STEM" but i find the ratios to be not ideal. but as long as you create your own salts and don't use the presets and plug in all the appropriate percentages itll calculate it for you. just note in hydro using sulfur based micro's can cause uptake issues as its not very mobile.. itll work fine in soil though, in dwc i ran into issues which is why i use all chelated micro nutrients. a pound of each micro will last you a lifetime.

there's EDDHA, ETDA, and DTPA.. different chelating agents.

it's my understanding that Iron DTPA is the most stable. the others break down outside their ideal ph range (EDTA around 5 to 6, DTPA higher than 8 and EDDHA over 9).. keep in mind I run DWC which if you arent familiar with it is pure hydro.. a bucket of water and roots with an airstone pumping air to the water. but using EDTA, unless your water is below a ph of 6.0 it's not gonna be so stable..

http://scienceinhydroponics.com/2010/08/iron-sources-in-hydroponics-which-one-is-the-best.html
I've been growing hydro vegetables here in Riceland for 15 years and been weighing my own for
10+Y's now, all my base salts are 25Kg bags and the micro's 1Kg. We had several choices with STEM's, like 3-4 different Rexalon APN, but I've use singles, we have Yara & Haifa. Rexalon also has single micro's, they by Nobel, the Prize and BANG(dynimite) people.
I'm happy with run to waste, mix it up, do pH and EC till it right, use it to it's gone and repeat as
needed.
Your post made me look at my micro's, my Fe is low, will pick up a K in the Big Mango next week.
SLITLOS
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
In hydro if you're not using all chelated micros, but only chelated iron, the other sulfur based micros can essentially steal the chelate from your iron rendering your iron useless, resulting in iron deficiency
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
In hydro if you're not using all chelated micros, but only chelated iron, the other sulfur based micros can essentially steal the chelate from your iron rendering your iron useless, resulting in iron deficiency
This is why I like to keep Iron DTPA with calcium nitrate in one part while keeping sulfates in the other part. It doesn't matter as much once added to the reservoir. Besides, most of the sulfate comes from magnesium sulfate, a macro salt.
 

SLITLOS

Well-Known Member
Late getting back, been down to the Big Mango for a few to see friends, shop for
things I can't buy up country and see movies in English.
Here's what I been using for micros and cost(36.60 to $1.).Metal order.png

Here's the product Co. info for the chelated ones and a pic of the Fe and perlite I picked up this trip.
SLITLOSPL:Fe.png
 

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SLITLOS

Well-Known Member
Hello sidewing, I don't know my way around computers and having trouble trying
to get HB installed. Using a Mac with 10.8.5, can go back to Snow Leopard 10.6
if necessary, I've never used window.
Thanks
SLITLOS
 

SLITLOS

Well-Known Member
Sorry I have almost no experience with macs
Till I can get things sorted out, I'll either use Fatman's grow & bloom for run to waste or use my
new tom formula at a lower EC. I've got 5 plants that need to be T/P'ed and most of my time for
the next week will be for re-bagging 200 coir bags for tom/chilies and won't feel like trying to try
to load software.
SLITLOS
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
Mine I posted works very well. You can tweak the application rate of the silica to get your ph perfect. On mix in ro ph is 7.0 with full strength silica. I'm sure if you lower it or drop it you can dial it to 5.7 with no adjustment
 

SLITLOS

Well-Known Member
Their website has a build for Mac OS X. I'm assuming you already tried that built? I see no reason why I'd use fatman's recipe.
Hello CH, I can DL the SW, but I can't find the installer.
Is this true "The term CaMg makes my skin boil" ? I've been reading.
SLITLOS
 
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