Sativied
Well-Known Member
What exactly do you mean with "wants to take up"? Does it prefer H2PO4 over P4O10/P2O5? (the latter is in Drip Clean, the only 'additive' I use).
Oh... clever pun. "raise" K. PH Up...
How many PK boosters do you need!?!?!
- Thread starter purplehays1
- Start date
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
P2O5 is a conversion factor (the P in NPK is actually P2O5 conversion factor). Are you sure the ingredients say "derived from P2O5?"
Here's a good explanation of what I mean though. Here's a chart of phosphate buffers over a range of pH.
Notice the range of pH range that's ideal for plants corresponds to phosphate being in H2PO4- form? If the pH is right, the phosphates are available as H2PO4-.
This also means KH2PO4 makes a good pH buffer on its own, adjusting the weak acid with a strong base (potassium hydroxide + KH2PO4), if needed.
The pun was 'basically'.
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purplehays1
Well-Known Member
Im not saying that a huge PK shot at week 7 doesn't improve yields. It certainly does, i would say by as much as 25%. When i started using moab my yield grew noticeably. Im just saying wtf is with people using like 5 of them!!! And shit you are probably right, MOAB is like potash and some other shit, nothing really special, but for 50 bucks i got enough to last me years and im no fertilizer maker.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Would have been funnier if you added it after raise too.
I currently run 350 ppm in my hydro setup and if I add Ph+ (KOH 5%) for about half a point (i.e. from 5.4 to 5.9) it goes up to about 360-370. Drip clean has a smaller effect but I've jokingly called the combination of Drip Clean and Ph+ my PK booster, but I see now the P is not the right P.
No, not specifically "derived from". It's a cleaning agent from H&G meant to prevent salt built up (in drippers, chiller etc, works effectively), not an actual additive as in booster. NPK is 0-18-6. I use roughly 1-2 tea spoons when I refresh my 15gall rez.
Drip Clean:
Phosphoric acid anhydride (P2O5) 18%
K2O potassium oxide 6%
Phosphorus pentoxide, P2O5 is the anhydride of phosphoric acid. P2O5 + 3 H2O ---> 2 H3PO4
So the green one in your chart. Not very useful, the H3PO4 as nutrient that is, thanks for posting the graph.
Nope.
purplehays1
Well-Known Member
i may have to run a test for you to prove it. I have 4 nearly identical plants about to go into flower, i will not give one of them any moab. Though they are all in one big 30gal pot so may not be a perfect test, but should be interesting.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
If you balance H3PO4 with KOH, you will get KH2PO4, and then K2HPO4, and then K3PO4.
Besides being a good strong base for pH up, KOH is a very potent and pure source of potassium. It's why some PK boosters have more K in the ratio than others. The products with more K are pH balanced versions. The ones with more P are just pure KH2PO4.
Besides being a good strong base for pH up, KOH is a very potent and pure source of potassium. It's why some PK boosters have more K in the ratio than others. The products with more K are pH balanced versions. The ones with more P are just pure KH2PO4.
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Sativied
Well-Known Member
See UncleBen's comment in my sig. Seriously, not interested, I've tested various nutrient regimes myself. All PK products are bullshit, started by Canna, mimicked by competitors, all just filling their pockets with money from those who don't know what makes a plant tick. The need less N late in flowering they don't need "a huge PK shot". Don't complain about 5 different PK boosters if you help finance the scam.
purplehays1
Well-Known Member
k i will name the 1 lady that doesn't bulk up as much Sativied in honor of your vast knowledge.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Yep, it's not about loading it up with things that will make bigger buds, it's about getting all the ratios right. N : P2O5:K2O and K:Ca:Mg are the most important.
Once you dial in the perfect ratios, no extra PK boost will help.
My current favorite NPK ratio for general gardening with hydroponics is 1:1:2 all the way through veg and stretch, and somewhere around 1:3:2 for the ripening phase. If the lower leaves start turning yellow, up the N. If not, you have enough N.
Once you dial in the perfect ratios, no extra PK boost will help.
My current favorite NPK ratio for general gardening with hydroponics is 1:1:2 all the way through veg and stretch, and somewhere around 1:3:2 for the ripening phase. If the lower leaves start turning yellow, up the N. If not, you have enough N.
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Sativied
Well-Known Member
Typical response for an ignorant grower falling for PK boosters... yawn... you're making this quite the ironic thread.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Nice, so there's some truth in my joke about using Drip Clean + PH Up as a PK boost afterall.
"KOH is a very potent and pure source of potassium. " Yeah definitely noticed that because it takes more of Up to make a difference than it does with Down (H3PO4). I've gotten into the habit of avoiding using Ph up (and simply add more tap water and base nutes if needed) but I should use it at least on a more consistent basis to get a better idea of the actual ratio of the soup.
jondamon
Well-Known Member
I don't bother using pHup any more.
I barely use my silica any more other than to raise pH when needed.
To be honest though my pH comes out within the range I want these days anyway so I very rarely even adjust my pH.
If my test is between 5.5-6.2 I don't bother adjusting.
For me keeping an eye on my EC level is far more important.
J
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Agreed, and same here. I rarely adjust my pH besides after a refresh with tap water (7.3 pH).
I also use pH Up rarely, man that bottle is old. I only use it sometimes when I'm too lazy to refresh the res and the uptake skewed the ratio.
Also don't meant using it more or more often, but since I run at such low PPMs the pH+ raises my ppm and actually changes my NPK ratio (5% of total ppm but that's over 10% of the nutes I add to my tap). It's really a non-issue but point was that if I use it and still want to pretend I have an idea of the NPK of the soup, I should at least use it consistently (or not at all) cause now I sometimes run a week without and a few days with for example.
budman111
Well-Known Member
Classic case of 'A fool and their money...'
GrowerGoneWild
Well-Known Member
Hah, I came to the same conclusion. I dont buy PH up, and silica is the only alkaline product I have so I've been using it to control PH.
GrowerGoneWild
Well-Known Member
Yes they are, some are ammended with other boosters like Aminos, and other fermented or plant based extracts. Like AN's Big Bud.
or Heavy 16's Fire,
Or some are just basic like GH. Kool Bloom 0-10-10 bulking formula. Or the Kool Bloom Ripening formula.
But they do have a different function, one is for mass and one stresses for ripening.
Goldilocks1
New Member
Don't go with mbferts.com, I ordered 5 products from them and only 4 came in. I emailed them about there mistake of not sending me what I paid for and they spat in my face. There an untrustworthy nutrients dealer. The Stretch Stopper I ordered and paid for never came in the mail, a value of $30. They refused to correct there mistake and called me liar. I'll stick with bulk of it means I don't have to deal with there I professionalism and it was all over a $30 Stretch Stopper, what business does that. It would have been so easy for them to own there mistake.