High-pressure (aka "true") aeroponics - nutrient schedule?

Atomizer said:

I went with canna because G-Love had good results with it, iirc he also used a mix of canna aqua with success when he ran out of substra. Treefarmer did just as well with GH so there are a few tried and tested nutes that work with hp aero. If you use one of these initially it`ll be one less variable to worry about.

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Do you use canna with the recomended mixture (40ml to 10L, or do you have a custom mix with it?

From a website:
Recommended EC for Substra Vega A + B is 0.8 - 1.5 mS/cm (Part A plus Part B and assuming source water at 0.0 EC)

What scale are they using?

Water gift: 3 - 5 liter / m2 / day

What does this mean?

kmbud said:

Do you use canna with the recomended mixture (40ml to 10L, or do you have a custom mix with it?

From a website:
Recommended EC for Substra Vega A + B is 0.8 - 1.5 mS/cm (Part A plus Part B and assuming source water at 0.0 EC)

What scale are they using?
Water gift: 3 - 5 liter / m2 / day
What does this mean?

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Yes- I was also curious what sort of feeding schedule you'd found benficial. Do you tend to have a transition period where you blend some grow and flower mix, or just do a straight switchover? What sort of ec do you start and finish with and any details in between if you feel like posting that much info...

Atomizer

I found an old post of fatman that had ppm of different elements to mix your own nukes instead of buying them. How do I convert this into weight or some form that I can use this. Say for example: Nitrogen 80 ppm, the analysis of calcum nitrate is 15.5% Nitrogen (14.5% - Nitrate, 1% - Ammonium), 19% Calcium. So how do I figure how much to use per gallon?

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/254876-my-true-hp-aero-plug-84.html post #840

As always thanks for any and all help

1g per gallon = 38ppm NO3, 3ppm NH4 and 50ppm Ca.
so 1.952g/gal will give you the 80ppm N (consisting of 74ppm NO3 + 5.6ppm NH4) along with 98ppm of Ca.

Atomizer said:

1g per gallon = 38ppm NO3, 3ppm NH4 and 50ppm Ca.
so 1.952g/gal will give you the 80ppm N (consisting of 74ppm NO3 + 5.6ppm NH4) along with 98ppm of Ca.

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What formula are you using to figure this?

Typical calcium nitrate is 14.4% Nitrate, 1.1% Ammonium, 19% Calcium.
1g per Litre = NO3: 144, NH4: 11, Ca: 190
divide by 3.785 for 1g/gal = NO3: 38, NH4: 2.9, Ca: 50.2

Quick question: What size net pots should I use? Or are there something else I should consider using to suspend the plants in the pods?

Atomizer said:

Typical calcium nitrate is 14.4% Nitrate, 1.1% Ammonium, 19% Calcium.
1g per Litre = NO3: 144, NH4: 11, Ca: 190
divide by 3.785 for 1g/gal = NO3: 38, NH4: 2.9, Ca: 50.2

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Are there an easier way to add the trace elements? I think it would be pretty hard to weigh less than .02 grams of some of this stuff.

kmbud said:

Quick question: What size net pots should I use? Or are there something else I should consider using to suspend the plants in the pods?

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Atomizer told me that chunked cubes of rockwool work great in net pots- don't compact it, the roots will grow it all together and firm it up apparently- the rockwool will provide moisture in the beginning, and can be hand watered as needed till the roots get out into the mist... The netpot size should depend on your final plant size I guess... I'm gonne try 2 inch pots. The idea it just to created a holder for the roots, the sooner they can exit the pot- the sooner they will explode in growth... Might be better to start small, then you can always easily bore the hole out for bigger pots the next run... Going smaller would be a bit harder to backtrack to... Can't help you on the nute question... But, you should probably consider multiplying times ten and make a 10x concentrated stock solution that you can dilute with pure water to the desired ppm- the ratio will be obviously the same... You can probably go alot more concentrated than 10x- obviously avoiding a situation where precipitation occurs is important- I wouldn't know what that level is though...
-Just trying to save Atomizer a few key strokes by repeating what he told me when I had the same questions- he's been very helpful- I wonder if all our repetitive questions ever wear on his patience...

kmbud said:

Are there an easier way to add the trace elements? I think it would be pretty hard to weigh less than .02 grams of some of this stuff.

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As trichy said.. You`d make up a concentrated stock solution, 100-1 is common but you can go higher with trace elements if you like. For 100-1, dissolve 2g of the chemical in one litre of water and add 10ml of the resulting stock solution per litre of res to achieve .02g/L.

OK let's see if I have my small brain wrapped around this.

Look at this: https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/268790-lucas-formula-recipe-scratch-really.html post number 4. The bottom part of this where it is showing the amounts to weigh in ounces is to make the 1:100 concetrate. The top part where it is showing the ppm of each element, is the final ppm of the formula after it has been diluted down and what ends up in the res tank.

And this: Beginning Formula Diluted Down to an HP Aero usable strength.

Nitrogen 80
Phosphorus 25
Potassium 87
Magnesium 28
Calcium 79
Sulfur 37
Iron 3.30
Manganese 1.67
Boron 1.67
Zinc 1.67
Copper .33
Molybdenum .03

EC 0.83
TDS 581

This is the diluted down version in the res tank for this formula. And if I wanted to make a 1:100 mix of this I need to do what you are saying here:

Quote: You`d make up a concentrated stock solution, 100-1 is common but you can go higher with trace elements if you like. For 100-1, dissolve 2g of the chemical in one litre of water and add 10ml of the resulting stock solution per litre of res to achieve .02g/L.

You must enjoy a challenge if you plan to tackle hp aero and homebrew nutes at the same time
I work in grams and litres, the "diluted down" profile you posted would need 10 different chemicals (~590g in total) to make up 2x 1L stock solutions (A+B) with a dilution rate of 1ml A+B per litre of res. The combined A/B stocks equate to 1000L of working solution with an EC of 0.8.

The initial outlay for homebrew nutes can be steep as you may be forced to buy a minimum weight for some of the micro`s...not a problem if you need several thousand gallons of concentrated nutes. A digital scale with a resolution of 0.001g is a good investment.

Atomizer said:

You must enjoy a challenge if you plan to tackle hp aero and homebrew nutes at the same time
I work in grams and litres, the "diluted down" profile you posted would need 10 different chemicals (~590g in total) to make up 2x 1L stock solutions (A+B) with a dilution rate of 1ml A+B per litre of res. The combined A/B stocks equate to 1000L of working solution with an EC of 0.8.

The initial outlay for homebrew nutes can be steep as you may be forced to buy a minimum weight for some of the micro`s...not a problem if you need several thousand gallons of concentrated nutes. A digital scale with a resolution of 0.001g is a good investment.

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Agree with Atomizer- it might be much better to buy some proven Canna to start, that way you have a benchmark, and can whittle any issues you may have down to less variables... It would seem even a single 1l bottle of each would be enough to get ya going for a while- definitely worth it imho...

For nutrients you just need to screen your blend with a 200 mesh is the recommendation I see around all the forums, or you can use something like GH three part.

Is the Aerojet a HPA? It says it's, its got microjets, 550 gph demand pump, 16 pairs 180 degree sprayers.

If it qualifies, I've found one a 4 tray for around $600 + shipping.

I know it is lacking in some respects, its been pointed out the pump will fail sooner rather than later with the constant on off, there's no accumulator so again more pump stress etc. And I've certainly seen nicer builds with pressure reliefs, on all the connections that need them, and extra solenoids on the connections to maintain long term pressure balance, but I don't need all that, I just need to know if this can take care of my aero needs, I'm fine with replacing a pump or two a year if that's what it calls for.

Thank you in advance for your responses.

Oh excuse me so much fellas, I was reading your other thread, I'm tired, I clicked over to this one and made my HPA comment on this nute thread on accident, my mistake, to follow it up though because I'm here I see aerojets in the range of 600-800 to give you an idea of what they cost vs a DIY, no arguement the DIY has more bells and whistles, just debating the lack of a warranty those get costly.

its a FAG system. You cant get TAG with a 550/gallon per hour pump. And the sprayers arent fine enough. Its a decent system but not TAG. I dont know of any commercially available TAG systems on a home use scale.

Short answer. No, the aerojet doesn't come close to true aero, despite their claims. You could build that system for less than $200. The setup you describe sounds like it has way more PRV's than necessary. One PRV per system is all you need. You could build a true HP aero machine for less than they charge for that aerojet, I can tell you that. Tricky has listed on his thread all the links to the parts he used.

Ok, so I see what you were saying about the Aerojet, found a thread featuring actual info on it, the pump is a common magdrive, not some high end model, I had assumed it was a nicer high pressure pump, hence the low gph flow rate, which could make sense in a high pressure = low flow, EcoPlus makes very affordable pumps that are better than his included one, therefore I have to say the only redeeming thing about the aerojet is the molded channels, which is botanicares strong suite. Ok so I'm back to squire one of constructing a system, I've got all you lovely people as guides so that helps.

One thing though I noticed Richard Stoner doesn't use metal for his sprayers, but PET, he's been doing this thirty years, so I'm sure he's done a cost benefit analysis on metal vs PET sprayers, I'm inclined to think he's right, since if you look at things like the turbokloner, etc, they all use PET microjet sprayers, though I certainly get why you would lean towards solenoids as you're trying to gain control, my concern is that control is coming at an asinine price.

yea thats why I disregarded the 2 posts you have since deleted. Once you do the research its all clear as mud. good luck.

Honestly I was mixed up because I had just read about the aerojet, back to back as the original genesis machine, which does use a demand pump, regardless, with those misconceptions out of the way let me give something to help you, first on doing your own stock solution the best way to go about this is to go google hydrobuddy, download it, get familiar with it, though I would take botanicares advice on cutting to half to a fourth of the target formula, for example in hydrobuddy I'd aim for Lucas with 100-100-200-60 NPKM, then I'd chose from the source list, for all of those, adding whatever additional you wish, though I just use kelp as a solution x for all the micronutrients.

Ok then back to the HPA, I assume you guys have been to mist cooling, google it, they have sprayers in various metals, all in the aperture sizes you are apparently looking for, they have extreme high pressure line capable of taking 1000 PSI, it seems to me that they have resources for a lot of the issues various people on the thread are describing.

Lastly I don't know who is aware so I'll make the others aware, the main ingredient in nutrient leeching solutions is citrate, you can buy it yourself far cheaper and use it in your reservoir to prevent precipitation of your nutrient solutions.