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High Pressure Aeroponics

Discussion in 'Aerogardeners' started by ZxcStaz, Jan 10, 2018.

  1.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    Make sure its for water not air ;) You`ll need to empty the tank and make sure the lines are open when setting the air precharge. The reducer should be set to the lowest tank pressure ie; 80psi. If you take the tank upto 145psi and the plumbing doesnt leak, you know you did a good job :)
     
  2.  
    ZxcStaz

    ZxcStaz Active Member

    Good call on that one, I didn't even check to see if it was hydraulic or pneumatic. Yeah, I bloody ordered the pneumatic one, no worries though, I sorted it out. The hydraulic regulator is on the way. Thanks for the heads-up, and thanks for all the help.
     
  3.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    Good catch, saves having to send it back. I use caleffi 5338`s.
     
  4.  
    kytaez

    kytaez Member

    Hi guys! My first post on this forum.:mrgreen:
    Just read through the whole topic, and think you doing a great job!
    Really interesting idea of delivering incompatible elements via different systems (2 would be enough)! It will complicate the system quite a bit tho. Not sure if the benefits would be worth the effort.
    Anyway, what timer/s you are set for? Is there an option of day/night times.
    The reason I'm asking is that I'm building a HPA system ATM and definitely going for two timers controlled by relay hooked to room lights. Pretty easy DIY solution for different spray times day/night. I can post more detail if you interested.
    Good luck with your build!
     
  5.  
    ZxcStaz

    ZxcStaz Active Member

    Hi Kytaez,

    I had to build a 220V/40A double-pole relay to control my HPS lights, when I was using them. I placed a standard 120v / 24hr. timer onto the 120V relay power cord, and it safely turned the lights 12h on/ 12h off. I figure you could put one system on that, to turn on when the lights come on. Then have another 24h timer offset by 12h, to turn on the secondary system when the lights go out. Each of the aero-systems would need it's own infinite timer to control the nozzle actuation though. I'd like to hear more about your system. I'm assuming that it has a configuration akin to this.
    It sounds like you want to accommodate the increased water demand when the lights are on, and reduce the application when they turn off. Sounds like a good idea to me. I have yet to play with the o/o timings. They will depend on the nozzle volume, coverage, demand, and others variables (that I'm sure will surface) like humidity/temperature. From what I have read, if you have complete spray coverage, you can start with a 3s on/ 5min off cycle, and see how your plants do. Personally, I would start heavy, and trim down; over watering is easier to fix than under. Some of the more experienced growers here might provide more empirical knowledge. Hth.

    -ZXC
     
  6.  
    kytaez

    kytaez Member

    Thats right! Plants demands are different at light ON to lights OFF. So to address that, I'd rather build a system that capable of different spray timings for both.
    My system also not finished just yet.
    For now it will only be running 2 totes with 2 nozzles each. One plant per tote (82L)
    I'm using Aquatec 8800 pump, small accumulator, pressure switch, and one solenoid at every nozzle. Literally couple days ago I received 4 nozzles (Bete PJ15) and didn't really had time to test them properly. I'll try to upload some pictures here as soon as I put it all together.
    Cheers! K
     
    ZxcStaz likes this.
  7.  
    ZxcStaz

    ZxcStaz Active Member

    What about just building in a few more nozzles that actuate when the lights come on? Maybe couple a timer and solenoids to the lamp power line to make the additional nozzles fire. The main nozzles would be a constant, but the auxiliary nozzles kick in when the lights go on.
     
  8.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    The number of nozzles needed for full mist coverage wont change whether the lights are on or off. You just need to alter the timing settings for day/night or run 2 timers ;)
     
  9.  
    ZxcStaz

    ZxcStaz Active Member

    I see Atomizer, you don't want to increase the number of nozzles because it would provide too much water at one time; cause accumulation and increased particle size. Instead, increase the frequency of dispensations, and provide only ample water for the demands.
    In order to do that though, It would require on heck of a timer. One capable of dual programing, on top of second/minute cycling.
    I'm not sure how two timers would be configured to accomplish this. I think you might need a third, minimally, to engage a relay or switch to flip from one timer to the other. Do you have a specific configuration in mind, and do you use a system like this?
     
  10.  
    ZxcStaz

    ZxcStaz Active Member

    Here is an update on the OG Kush seedlings that I have in LPA. The Air Layers are looking good. They became a little twisted from the procedure and weight of the water/Rapid Rooters, but they are still green and growing. I figure about another 11 days before the roots emerge. I'll have to construct another LPA cloner soon.
    I switched the lights today. I took out the 125W CFL and 300W LED. I replaced them with a 1200W LED. It uses 3W diodes and pulls 350W of actual power. The PAR readings are 400uMol at the tops, and about 250 around the edges. This should provide a more uniform lighting, and not burn them as my larger LED's and COB LED's would at this stage.
    The temp's are good; around 80F ambient and 69F in the root chamber. They were looking a bit yellow on the new growth, so I foliared them with some Urea, Ca, Mg, and Fe. I might hit them with a bit of P tomorrow. Everything is progressing evenly and the creation of the new grow room is underway.


    20180210_191902_resized.jpg 20180210_191907_resized.jpg 20180210_191927_resized.jpg 20180210_191939_resized.jpg 20180210_192048_resized.jpg
     
  11.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    The 3rd timer is the one used for the lights, simply connect a SPDT relay with a mains coil to it in parallel. The outputs of the two cycle timers connect to the Nc and No terminals of the relay and the common terminal becomes the output which connects to the solenoids.
     
    ZxcStaz likes this.
  12.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    Better to start just slightly over if you have to and dial it in as soon as you can.
     
  13.  
    ZxcStaz

    ZxcStaz Active Member

    Is your time "off" inversely proportional to the biomass? If so, do you have to manually decrease the off time? Sorry for peppering you with so many questions. Thanks for all the info. :)
     
  14.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    The timing is proportional to the plants needs which are affected by many variables, environment, light and biomass etc. If you start heavy you`ll set yourself up for a harder time further down the line as the overmisting will create hydro roots which will still have to adapt to the mist when you cut back. The established plants will have higher demands and wont handle a massive or abrupt change so you`ll have to make smaller adjustments over a longer period. Transitions involve a time cost so its better to avoid them if you can.
     
    PetFlora likes this.
  15.  
    kytaez

    kytaez Member

    Thats one way of doing it. In that case both timers constantly on.
    I decided to use relay to distribute power to the timers, so only one timer is ON at the time.
    Looking at pinout attached:
    2&7 is connected to room lights (240v)
    8 is 24v common
    5 to night timer
    6 to day timer

    My timers and solenoids all 24v will be fed from the same transformer as the pump.
    Hope it makes sense..
    Cheers!
     

    Attached Files:

  16.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    If one timer can run 24/7 reliably so can two ;) I use 12vdc pump, timers and solenoids for hpa. The timers pull 3mA when idle and 15mA when the SSR`s are active, next to nothing in running costs.
    In most cases of DPDT switches and relays, pins 3 & 6 would be the commons. If thats the case you want +24v supply on pin 6, which switches to pin 5 or pin 8 (providing +24v to the individual timers). The outputs from the timers connect to pin 1 & pin 4 and pin 3 would be connected to the system solenoids. All the negatives commoned with a wire nut or connector block.
    Running 2 timers 24/7 allows you to alter the night cycle timing when the lights are on, and the day cycle timing when the lights are off. Mine remember their settings but i cant change them unless they have power ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  17.  
    ZxcStaz

    ZxcStaz Active Member

    @ Atomizer,
    I was reading an older aero thread, and in it you mentioned root mats. What are your thoughts on using these to keep the roots off of the bottom? I only ask now because it was such an older thread that you may have a different view on them today.
     
  18.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    I`m still using chambers made from heavy duty woven polyprop fabric, only the top and end panels are solid.
     
  19.  
    ZxcStaz

    ZxcStaz Active Member

    Okay, now you have me intrigued. I don't know where to start, ummm...doesn't air and mist move right through it, how does it drain, what about insulation...more questions,,,more questions. Don't worry about answering, that sounds cool though. I'm sure there are awesome benefits to that configuration.
    Oh, btw, you knew Fatman! Damn, that is totally cool, I'm jealous. I've read some of his stuff too, but I wasn't here when he was around.
     
  20.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    Fire some mist across (or even directly at) some trampoline jump mat fabric (aka permatron) and see how much mist makes it through. Insulation works both ways, it can keep heat in as well as out. Water drains through the entire chamber floor which is much better than via a small drain at one end of the chamber. When roots reach the fabric floor (or walls) they are air pruned which stops them in their tracks and causes new laterals to form back along the length of the root, With a screen mounted above the floor of a plastic tote, the airspace below it will be very humid (not dry) so you wont get any air pruning. The roots will just pile up on the screen.
    You should count yourself lucky you weren`t here ;)
     
    PetFlora and ZxcStaz like this.

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