Here is how we will legalize marijuana in all 50 states within 2 years.

SunJ

Member
What small farms?
As soon as it is Federally legal to commercially grow Big Tobacco will lobby directly and thru front groups to make sure you cannot legally sell without going thru hoops and paying ungodly amounts of money to get into the game
Bet on it
Here is something many people may not realize. The prohibition on alchohol ended 80 years ago
it wasnt until last year you could legally home brew beer in all 50 states
We have the internet now and lots of old people in power are finally starting to die off. If we started this underground movement and actually managed to get say, 1 million people all across the country to pledge to drop off a Green M Card...
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Right, i'm not saying that there won't be a large marketshare taken up by large corporations. I'm saying that, just as in the tobacco and alcohol industries things like craft cigars, cigarettes, rolling tobaccos, wines, liquors, craft beers etc. exist, so too is it possible for smaller scale artisanal growers to supply the inevitable demand that will exist for such high-quality products.

your point about the legality of home-brewing may be an insinuation that we haven't been free to produce and consume out own alcohol even though prohibition was overturned 80years ago; however, the fact that some states hold out on updating their legislation and others are more progressive is really all your statement proves. It also didn't prevent the craft brewing industry (and now the craft whiskey industry on its heels) to begin taking marketshare back from the large brewers, vintners and distilleries. That big tobacco--and probably big cannabis/big hemp too!--will inevitably try to wrangle the political system to its own benefit (including by lobbying for greater barriers to enter the market) is a sad fact about american politics.
As to your comment about small farms--they do exist and CSA is working in some places with dedicated communities. that they haven't overcome the enormity that is agrobusiness and industrial agriculture doesn't mean that they can't or won't ever. Farmer's markets could easily become a place to sell your harvest, with the right activism and dedication.
be easy,
And what I am saying is that Big Tobacco will lobby thru front groups to close the market to even "craft" growers. They did it for 50 years with Beer. Home brewing wasnt legal any place until 1978. And wasnt legal in all states until last year. If you want to start a distillery it will cost you a minimum of a half million just to comply with regulations. I'm all for sales but I know where that is going to lead. look in this section with people that want to legally grow and sell and the bullshit they have to go thru. Start here
https://www.rollitup.org/legalization-marijuana/793775-i-502-application-process-operating.html
 

Dr.J20

Well-Known Member
And what I am saying is that Big Tobacco will lobby thru front groups to close the market to even "craft" growers. They did it for 50 years with Beer. Home brewing wasnt legal any place until 1978. And wasnt legal in all states until last year. If you want to start a distillery it will cost you a minimum of a half million just to comply with regulations. I'm all for sales but I know where that is going to lead. look in this section with people that want to legally grow and sell and the bullshit they have to go thru. Start here
https://www.rollitup.org/legalization-marijuana/793775-i-502-application-process-operating.html
Yes, but now you're just talking about the need to decrease barriers to entry for small business in general; I understand that legally it was not permitted to brew beer at home or distill at home. people still did it like they still grow without it being legal. On a more macroscopic level, these people develop valuable real skills that, when regulatory scenarios change sufficiently, they can generally capitalize upon. Certainly, you admit, that it is progress on the craft beer scene to now have legislation that legalizes the practice in every state. I'd say that even invoking your evidence actually hurts your argument since I would think you could call the new 50 state legality "progressive" in a technical sense. Thus, your argument becomes a temporal one: it will be a much longer time than you think before such craft industries will be able to fight the inevitable lobbying that you point out is inevitable at the front end. Big whoop. If you didn't realize that, you haven't been paying attention to the fact that 1% of americans controll 40% of the wealth. Naturally, in an economic situation like that, there will be a large uphill battle for small business to fight larger business since larger business is controlled by a concentration of wealth holders whose economic interests are likely more aligned than not when it comes to favorable regulatory structures. SO, yes, there will be much bullshit, but not enough to totally squelch out everyone. Big tobacco still deals with minor competitors taking tiny percentages of market share. ONce a competitor gets too big, they get bought out by the larger competitor whom they apparently threaten, right? Your distaste seems almost like you'd prefer to do nothing, or to keep things exactly as they are, which isn't great for the majority of the world.
be easy,
:peace:
 

SunJ

Member
Yes, but now you're just talking about the need to decrease barriers to entry for small business in general; I understand that legally it was not permitted to brew beer at home or distill at home. people still did it like they still grow without it being legal. On a more macroscopic level, these people develop valuable real skills that, when regulatory scenarios change sufficiently, they can generally capitalize upon. Certainly, you admit, that it is progress on the craft beer scene to now have legislation that legalizes the practice in every state. I'd say that even invoking your evidence actually hurts your argument since I would think you could call the new 50 state legality "progressive" in a technical sense. Thus, your argument becomes a temporal one: it will be a much longer time than you think before such craft industries will be able to fight the inevitable lobbying that you point out is inevitable at the front end. Big whoop. If you didn't realize that, you haven't been paying attention to the fact that 1% of americans controll 40% of the wealth. Naturally, in an economic situation like that, there will be a large uphill battle for small business to fight larger business since larger business is controlled by a concentration of wealth holders whose economic interests are likely more aligned than not when it comes to favorable regulatory structures. SO, yes, there will be much bullshit, but not enough to totally squelch out everyone. Big tobacco still deals with minor competitors taking tiny percentages of market share. ONce a competitor gets too big, they get bought out by the larger competitor whom they apparently threaten, right? Your distaste seems almost like you'd prefer to do nothing, or to keep things exactly as they are, which isn't great for the majority of the world.
be easy,
:peace:
I like the way you think and they way you lay it out with your words. Tried to give you more rep, but I need to spread some more around first. :)
 

jocelynmaeB

New Member
Marijuana is the most commonly used illegal drug in the U.S. and the world, and was a well-established medicine until it was federally criminalized in 1937. A majority of Americans believe marijuana should be legally regulated. Contrary to public opinion, Washington state and Colorado did not legalize cannabis. As the substance is still governed, voters in those states really passed weed decriminalization laws.
 

SunJ

Member
Marijuana is the most commonly used illegal drug in the U.S. and the world, and was a well-established medicine until it was federally criminalized in 1937. A majority of Americans believe marijuana should be legally regulated. Contrary to public opinion, Washington state and Colorado did not legalize cannabis. As the substance is still governed, voters in those states really passed weed decriminalization laws.
You are preaching to the choir here. It has, however, prompted the DOJ to make some pretty bold statements concerning their softening stance. Will be very interesting to see how the underlings interpret this. But this highlights the need for a real nationwide movement to get this incredible gift from God unscheduled... even unregulated.

Any adult should be able to grow just however much weed they want on the condition that it is never for sale. Give to friends or trade for other goods, but never for 'money'. Be responsible and keep it out of kids hands. If not, there should be a suitable punishment for that and that alone. Like if you had allowed access to alcohol to a minor or bought them cigarettes. Do something stupid like that and you deserve to be spanked, right? Individual freedoms also mean individual responsibilities.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
We will get it unscheduled.

The amount of regulated remains to be seen. Ever thought of growing tobacco and trying to sell it?
Good luck
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
yep. its called moonshine. Made it with corn. was very fun to do, very intoxicating to drink, and very easy to sell. what's your point?
And it is illegal and can get you Locked up.
Yet it is commercially legal to sell................If you have the half million dollars to comply with regulations.

I still think the fastest way to legalization is "legal to grow and posses, illegal to sell" the commercial sales can come later. As soon as you make it "legal to sell" you involve the goverment and regulations.And think about it. Nothing is going to stop anyone from selling it. They are doing it now.
 

Dr.J20

Well-Known Member
And it is illegal and can get you Locked up.
Yet it is commercially legal to sell................If you have the half million dollars to comply with regulations.

I still think the fastest way to legalization is "legal to grow and posses, illegal to sell" the commercial sales can come later. As soon as you make it "legal to sell" you involve the goverment and regulations.And think about it. Nothing is going to stop anyone from selling it. They are doing it now.
you are entitled to your opinion, but I think you're a little out of step. Because Wash and Co already started down the legal-to-sell path, i don't think you can say "the fastest way to legalization is"; perhaps, "....would have been" instead of "is."

I'm still a little confused as to why you're making comparisons to things like individuals selling moonshine or herb on the black market, and small craft breweries, boutique distilleries that produce only small batch liquors, and connoisseur vineyards. Craft breweries can only start up by people who know how to brew. meaning they either worked at a larger brewery and quit, trained for it in a program of study, or taught themselves at home as a hobby. These breweries exist despite the existence of InBev etc. There are extreme barriers to entry, and it is more costly than it "ought" to be, but they have managed to clear those hurdles. The reason they can exist is because there are people who are not satisfied with the larger, more mass produced versions of the product who are not willing to learn how to brew for themselves. They will gladly purchase the product. Why do you think this COULDN'T happen for ganja? And if you say "Big Tobacco" thats a bullshit answer. CO and Wash are proving that big tobacco and the correctional officer's lobby can't trump the will of the people right now. So while i agree the tax schema and regulations are out of whack, determined small business people will supply the demand.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
you are entitled to your opinion, but I think you're a little out of step. Because Wash and Co already started down the legal-to-sell path, i don't think you can say "the fastest way to legalization is"; perhaps, "....would have been" instead of "is."

I'm still a little confused as to why you're making comparisons to things like individuals selling moonshine or herb on the black market, and small craft breweries, boutique distilleries that produce only small batch liquors, and connoisseur vineyards. Craft breweries can only start up by people who know how to brew. meaning they either worked at a larger brewery and quit, trained for it in a program of study, or taught themselves at home as a hobby. These breweries exist despite the existence of InBev etc. There are extreme barriers to entry, and it is more costly than it "ought" to be, but they have managed to clear those hurdles. The reason they can exist is because there are people who are not satisfied with the larger, more mass produced versions of the product who are not willing to learn how to brew for themselves. They will gladly purchase the product. Why do you think this COULDN'T happen for ganja? And if you say "Big Tobacco" thats a bullshit answer. CO and Wash are proving that big tobacco and the correctional officer's lobby can't trump the will of the people right now. So while i agree the tax schema and regulations are out of whack, determined small business people will supply the demand.
Colorado has 136 pages of laws for selling, more for growing.
Arizona outright bans growing within 25 miles of a dispensary.
Washington state has similar laws and state controlled retail locations

legalize it on the Federal level and now you are also bringing in more regulations and a whole slew of Alphabet agencies. >Like FDA, USDA, Treasury
When legalized on the Fed level Big Tobacco will lobby to close the market to all those who cannot pay the fees. It took over 50 years from the end of prohibition to being able to Home brew beer in a couple of states. Wasnt until last year you could home brew beer in all states.

What makes you think it will be any different with weed?
 

Dr.J20

Well-Known Member
Colorado has 136 pages of laws for selling, more for growing.
Arizona outright bans growing within 25 miles of a dispensary.
Washington state has similar laws and state controlled retail locations

legalize it on the Federal level and now you are also bringing in more regulations and a whole slew of Alphabet agencies. >Like FDA, USDA, Treasury
When legalized on the Fed level Big Tobacco will lobby to close the market to all those who cannot pay the fees. It took over 50 years from the end of prohibition to being able to Home brew beer in a couple of states. Wasnt until last year you could home brew beer in all states.

What makes you think it will be any different with weed?
ok cheesus, i dont have a fucking clue how you're reasoning right now.
the simple act of brewing at home, being illegal in some states, did not prevent anyone who wanted to from doing it, no? sounds similar to growing ganja, no? (now this is not to say, were you caught home brewing you wouldn't get in trouble, but the law itself didn't actually prevent anything).
No one is saying it will be any different with weed. I'm saying it will be the same!
BUT
no need to be such a debbie fucking downer, because we can work hard and develop a craft industry just the same as the craft brewing industry. You live in America, those Alphabet Agencies get involved in everything--any fucking activity you can get into has been or is in the process of being regulated by legislation, and agencies developed to enforce that legislation. I agree, we have too much regulation, too much bureaucracy, but that is a separate issue from trying to get herb legalized. Look into the raw milk controversy and you will see an analogue. you are not allowed to sell raw milk, but if you have a cow, goat etc. you can drink it's milk at home.

Think: the very fact that you can be in an argument about legalizing cannabis implies that it has already been over-regulated vis-a-vis prohibition by the very same government you claim you 'don't want involved.' Wake up brother: they've been involved, nay holding the reins and driving the ox, since the beginning! This is a matter of reasserting ourselves back into the role of the vox populi, the overseers of the overseers, "we the people," from whence the power of the federal government derives.
 

jason1976

Well-Known Member
what I think hes saying is its following the same path as alcohol prohibition. it was only legal last year to brew beer in home in the states. what he means is its not going to happen overnight. although Colorado and Washington have both legalized recreationally i have seen quite a stir news wise about dumb ass dui-dwi. type things. money laundering,ect. its going to take time to get to the point you are speaking of. although a gyo situation wouldn't be that bad if you could be a caregiver. some people just cant grow shit. thus we have a produce isle in the grocery store.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
I just think the fastest way to legalize would be
Legal to grow and possess Illegal to sell

It takes every argument against the "evils" of weed and makes it a personal choice affecting no one else. It would also keep all the Alphabet Agencys and the Corporate types out of the market.
 
Top