[HELP] Rootbound? Stunted growth, pale green.

amsterhamster

Well-Known Member
When I transplanted this plant, the roots (only around 4 visible ones; all white and hairy) were hitting the bottom of the pot.

This plant has always been small and pale, but I figured it would get better, since my main plant is doing good other than nute burn (I think)

Plant 1
Very light green, stunted growth

Plant 2
Good color, but a few yellow spots. I haven't nuted in a while, AND I've flushed and transplanted. I think this is due to my new PH (didnt monitor it before, so maybe it's a bit of ph fluc)

These plants are the same age.Today is time to water.. Let me know if I can nute both of them, or if I should trim the roots.
Let me know, thanks guys :)
 

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amsterhamster

Well-Known Member
Just curious, is there a reason I'm being ignored? I'm assuming it's nitrogen deficiency from the FAQ, but I'm just making sure. +rep to who can answer.
 

blzbob

Well-Known Member
Your plants are too young to have deficiences, by the lite green color and the fact that the dark green one has droopy leafs I would say overwatering even though your soil doesn't look wet How do you judge when to give them water?
 

amsterhamster

Well-Known Member
Your plants are too young to have deficiences, by the lite green color and the fact that the dark green one has droopy leafs I would say overwatering even though your soil doesn't look wet How do you judge when to give them water?
I previously overwatered by watering small amounts when the top inch was dry.

Today was the end of a 4 day dry out.. soil was dry all the way to the bottom, so I watered 1/4 the size of container. (2gal container, watered 1/2gal each container)

The dark green ones leaves are drooping worse again, how long should I wait to water?

I just don't understand why it is so stunted, the dark green one is the same age.
 

capncash

Well-Known Member
do not give them any nutes. they are way to small. those wouldnt be rootbound in a thimble much less that big pot. you have spots. have you looked very closely for spider mites? that would explain retarded growth.

what kind of soil is that? the stem is very purple which looks like it could be nutrient lock from too much nutrients.
 

amsterhamster

Well-Known Member
here's the catch, it was in a very small pot (4" pot) and the roots had reached the bottom, so i transplanted it. However, before transplant it was just in plain top soil. After transplant it is now in the pictured pot/soil which is: 2 gal pot, 3 parts topsoil, 1 part perlite, 1 part peat moss). I think it will do better in this mixture. I think the spots are from a nute burn because I nuted with grow big 1/4 strength

definitely no bugs.
 

blzbob

Well-Known Member
You could try using a root stimulator to help your plants and Super thrive to get a better jump but only use 1 drop per gallon with the super thrive and no nutes just yet. Don't feed them till they are a month or so old. Give your plant a week to recover from transplant and overwatering
 

amsterhamster

Well-Known Member
Ok, so, for a week I wont water (unless it realllllly needs it, of course.) and i'm already using superthrive 1 drop/gal. I wont nute anymore until they are 1 month (which is in 2 weeks.. and only if they're big enough/healthy enough)
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
They were way too young to transplant. If you have a bad case of spin-out then you need to upcan. Root system was probably fouled up by the manhandling so it will take some time for them to recover. Doesn't matter what you apply regarding food, if the root hairs were injured, it can't take up the salts anyway. When you upcan, bury the stem up to the leafsets. Why would you want to trim the roots?

The yellowing can be caused by too little N, which also causes stunting but also by improper watering techniques and of course the recent upcanning.

What is the NPK value of your food, Grow big? Your choice of whether or not to feed depends on the original nutritional charge of the soil.

You don't want to use topsoil, it is too heavy. You want to use potting soil although you have opened it up a bit with the addition of perlite.

Water when the pot feels light to the lift.

See my sig link for more info.

No, rep needed. Homie don't play that game. :D

Good luck,
UB
 

ninja12

Active Member
would agree with blzbob,the yellow spots look a lot like the soil is too moist,if they have just been trancplanted then the might need a few days to settle down.
 

amsterhamster

Well-Known Member
FF grow big, 6-4-4. i used the low-end foliar feeding dose (1/2 tsp). Recommended for heavy feeding every 2 weeks is 3 tsp, for daily feeding is 1tsp.

Should I put more soil in, to bury up to the leaf sets? Should i change soil completely since I used top soil in my mix?
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
FF grow big, 6-4-4. i used the low-end foliar feeding dose (1/2 tsp). Recommended for heavy feeding every 2 weeks is 3 tsp, for daily feeding is 1tsp.

Should I put more soil in, to bury up to the leaf sets? Should i change soil completely since I used top soil in my mix?
A 6-4-4 should support good foliage production.

By adding soil up to the leafsets you'll induce root output along the buried stem. DO NOT change soil and cause further stress to your plants. Relax and let your plants do their own thing. The reason why I said to avoid top soil is because it is usually pretty heavy with additions of clay and/or silt. This is all a moot point if the pot drains OK, that's the issue, aerated roots. Also, as the roots explore the pot they will wick off an incredible amount of moisture. I like my soils quite tight for lower maintenance. It gets old watering a 3 gallon pot twice a day, a quart each watering.

Does your soil have any Mg? If you don't know, then this is what I'd do. I'd get me a good potting soil from Wally mart, MG is fine or Schultz, add about 1 TBSP. of dolomite lime to 2 quarts of potting soil in a bucket, mix well, and carefully add this mix until it comes just below the first leafsets after settling it in by watering. Peat is highly acidic, like 4.5, so the dolomite lime will help buffer your pH up a bit. A caveat, you must retain a "well" in the pot so that it will hold water. I've even removed lower leafsets just so I could get the seedling as deep as possible. I always do that with tomatoes and sometimes with cannabis, at least the 1st leafsets and with tomatoes sometimes as many as 4 if the transplants are real leggie. The "trunk" can be buried running horizontally or vertically, doesn't matter, you'll get the same effect regarding enhanced root output.

If your potting soil has bluish-green pellets (which most do) then it has a 3-4 month nutrient charge in the form of a polymer encapsulated food. I buy it commercially as that's my biz, it's a Polyon product, same principle as Osmocote but of much higher quality. You should know what you start with before understanding where you're going.

Good luck,
UB
 

amsterhamster

Well-Known Member
A 6-4-4 should support good foliage production.

By adding soil up to the leafsets you'll induce root output along the buried stem. DO NOT change soil and cause further stress to your plants. Relax and let your plants do their own thing. The reason why I said to avoid top soil is because it is usually pretty heavy with additions of clay and/or silt. This is all a moot point if the pot drains OK, that's the issue, aerated roots. Also, as the roots explore the pot they will wick off an incredible amount of moisture. I like my soils quite tight for lower maintenance. It gets old watering a 3 gallon pot twice a day, a quart each watering.

Does your soil have any Mg? If you don't know, then this is what I'd do. I'd get me a good potting soil from Wally mart, MG is fine or Schultz, add about 1 TBSP. to 2 quarts of potting soil in a bucket, mix well, and carefully add this mix until it comes just below the first leafsets after settling it in by waterering. A caveat, you must retain a "well" in the pot so that it will hold water. I've even removed lower leafsets just so I could get the seedling as deep as possible. I always do that with tomatoes and sometimes with cannabis, at least the small 1st leafsets.

Peat is highly acidic, like 4.5, so the dolomite lime will help buffer your pH up a bit.

If your potting soil has bluish-green pellets (which most do) then it has a 3-4 month nutrient charge in the form of a polymer encapsulated food. I buy it commercially as that's my biz, it's a Polyon product, same principle as Osmocote but of much higher quality. You should know what you start with before understanding where you're going. $

Good luck,
UB
Soil is Scott's topsoil.. it's very light and the pot drains very well. After my watering today (oops) i had to sop up a lot of water. I tested the PH of this water and it was 5.5.

I have miracle gro potting soil, but I was told not to use this. The top soil has no fert pellets, but the miracle gro has them.

The pots I use have a tray you can plug into the bottom, but this blocks 4 of the 8 holes (the 4 holes you plug it into have small slits around them for drainage). I however, don't use this tray, because I'm nervous of root rot or stagnant water.

Back to the soil, my 3 to 1 to 1 homemade. It drains well and doesn't clump. Before using the topsoil, I pulled out all chunks of clay and the bark, and left just the fine soil. It seems to retain water well.

Any more questions, I'll gladly answer. I really appreciate your help.

OH and also:
I figured i messed up somewhere, so, I started germ'n 6 bagseeds to test which medium was better. I have 4 in rockwool (followed directions and dipped it in 5.5 ph'd water+1drop/gal superthrive) and 2 in peat pellets (read it on the FAQ somewhere.)

The peat pellets germ'd faster, but the root in the rockwool (tho germ'd 12 hours later) was much longer. How do I know this? I broke them to see after 36 hours.

So, now, I have started 6 good seeds and am waiting to see how they are doing.

Their setup is:
Humidity dome
Heating Pad underneath
2 26w CFL 6500k (for now) 1 foot above for low lighting.
Dome is constantly foggy/"condensated"
If there is no fog/con - i mist the dome's inside.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Soil is Scott's topsoil.. it's very light and the pot drains very well. After my watering today (oops) i had to sop up a lot of water. I tested the PH of this water and it was 5.5.
That's the peat fer ya. ;) Use a turkey baster to suck up the water from your saucers, dump into a plastic milk jug and use this tea to water your indoor plants or veggies.

I have miracle gro potting soil, but I was told not to use this.
By whom and what was their reasoning?

The top soil has no fert pellets, but the miracle gro has them.
That's one down. You have a nutrient charge, for a while.

The pots I use have a tray you can plug into the bottom, but this blocks 4 of the 8 holes (the 4 holes you plug it into have small slits around them for drainage). I however, don't use this tray, because I'm nervous of root rot or stagnant water.
Trays suck. Use regular commercial black pots in a 1, 2, 3, or 5 gallon size....depends, and a cheap saucer with fairly high sides to collect the water. Walmart sells them.

Back to the soil, my 3 to 1 to 1 homemade. It drains well and doesn't clump. Before using the topsoil, I pulled out all chunks of clay and the bark, and left just the fine soil. It seems to retain water well.
Perfect. Just need to bump up that pH a bit with some dolomite like I said. Test, and if need be, you might have to add a tad of hydrated lime but watch that stuff, a little goes a long way.

Any more questions, I'll gladly answer. I really appreciate your help.

OH and also:
I figured i messed up somewhere, so, I started germ'n 6 bagseeds to test which medium was better. I have 4 in rockwool (followed directions and dipped it in 5.5 ph'd water+1drop/gal superthrive) and 2 in peat pellets (read it on the FAQ somewhere.)
Peat pellets are much too short for optimum root growth. The radicle is a already 4" long by the time the plant pops the surface, why restrict it? Either germ in a 20 Styro-cup or 1 gallon pot.

They're setup is:
Humidity dome
Heating Pad underneath
2 26w CFL 6500k (for now) 1 foot above for low lighting.
Dome is constantly foggy/"condensated"
If there is no fog/con - i mist the dome's inside.
Ditch the dome, you don't need it and it will invite fungus. You're not rooting cuttings. I'm surprised that your plants haven't died to damp-off disease. Don't know about the heating pad either. You're better off getting your ambient temps around 85/60 day/night. Warm/hot soil also promotes soil borne fungus problems.

1' above for CFL's sounds mighty weak to me. I put my seedlings in full sun from sunrise to sunup, weather permitting, and they love it. I then supplement with artificial for a 20/4 photoperiod. Of course they are acclimated to such good light from the get-go, a very important point. You might enjoy looking at what I can do in 3 weeks. https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

It's all about the tweaks. ;)

Ben
 

amsterhamster

Well-Known Member
God damn, I'm intimidated by that. So many questions.. For that experiment, all you used was 1 gallon pots? This spinout stuff, where can I get it's equivalent? Also, would you be able to give me some pointers on my new setup (for the two problem plants pictured)

Oh also, I was told by several individuals on this forum who said MG was a waste of time and that it would lead to nute burn. they also sad it's high in bark and will be very acidic and it can also stunt root development.

Dolomite.. not sure where to get it.. can I just use higher PH water to even it out?
 

amsterhamster

Well-Known Member
Oh, and thank you so very much. You've cleared up a LOT and answered all of my tedious questions haha. Most people don't explain their response or they will only answer one question. I just don't have that green of a thumb.. I just want to grow it for myself, mainly for the success/hobby/scientific interest. It seems like everytime I improve something, something else needs improving.

I made a new setup, in hopes that it would be better than my closet. Let me know if you have time to analyze it. it will only take 5 minutes tops to take pictures
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
God damn, I'm intimidated by that. So many questions.. For that experiment, all you used was 1 gallon pots?
I sexed in 1 gallon, upcanned what I wanted to save to 3 gallon pots.

This spinout stuff, where can I get it's equivalent? Also, would you be able to give me some pointers on my new setup (for the two problem plants pictured)
Don't know where you can get Griffin's, been a long time since I got mine.

Oh also, I was told by several individuals on this forum who said MG was a waste of time and that it would lead to nute burn. they also sad it's high in bark and will be very acidic and it can also stunt root development.
And that's why MG sells tons of it annually? I don't think so.

Dolomite.. not sure where to get it..
Nurseries

can I just use higher PH water to even it out?
Nope. Soil is too much of a long lasting buffer for pH adjusted water to be of any long term benefit.

UB
 

Yian

Member
Oh, and thank you so very much. You've cleared up a LOT and answered all of my tedious questions haha. Most people don't explain their response or they will only answer one question. I just don't have that green of a thumb.. I just want to grow it for myself, mainly for the success/hobby/scientific interest. It seems like everytime I improve something, something else needs improving.

I made a new setup, in hopes that it would be better than my closet. Let me know if you have time to analyze it. it will only take 5 minutes tops to take pictures
Hey buddy, I registered to check how your plant is doing? Im in exactly the same situation: Stunted growth with roots already established at the bottom. I live in a place where seeds are near impossible to get so I cant exactly start anew - how did your plant turn out? Any advice would be great. My plant is 10 days old, looks like your first picture. pH run off is 6, im running under a UFO 5" away. I water every 3-4 days and I can see the roots at the bottom but I am getting zero growth?
 

orbo

Well-Known Member
Hey buddy, I registered to check how your plant is doing? Im in exactly the same situation: Stunted growth with roots already established at the bottom. I live in a place where seeds are near impossible to get so I cant exactly start anew - how did your plant turn out? Any advice would be great. My plant is 10 days old, looks like your first picture. pH run off is 6, im running under a UFO 5" away. I water every 3-4 days and I can see the roots at the bottom but I am getting zero growth?

Might wanna start a new thread. This one is about 6 years old.

orbo
 
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