Growmau5's BML Spydr clone: a diy led build

Alexander Supertramp said:

Most hydro shops have PAR meters that can be rented. Or just spend 250-350 bucks and buy your own quality PAR meter. A simple Lux meter wont give you PAR readings but certainly could be useful in overall distribution.

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It's just what he does.
His reply to you will be like this..."quality for 250$?...apogees can't read deeper than 660nm."

Little do all the people that bitch about apogees sensor...they come very close to a spectroradiometer in practice. Actually read closer to the spectroradiometer than the more accepted Li-core from my experience with white based lights. And can be calibrated to a specific spectrum if consistent testing of one is needed...even heavy deep red ones.
So does anyone who actually has experience with hand held PAR meter and a spectroradiometer want to chime in...or are we just jerking off to data sheets to look cool.

And on that note... does everyone that doesn't believe apogee is "quality"...completely ignore any PAR charts that use them? (being rhetorical here)

@Growmau5
which PAR meter you looking for $350
Apogee SQ electric sensor is only $155+shipping. Just needs a multimeter and need to multiply with 5. Good math practice and less expensive option also.

robincnn said:

@Growmau5
which PAR meter you looking for $350
Apogee SQ electric sensor is only $155+shipping. Just needs a multimeter and need to multiply with 5. Good math practice and less expensive option also.

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my local hydro store gave me a 15% discount for a special order pre-pay deal. They got it straight off the Sunlight Supply truck, who I believe is the distributor.

I was looking at the out of the box apogee. I remember reading your light plot thread and you mentioned the sensor connected to a multimeter. I thought it sounded like elec engineer stuff, but if you think I can handle it, I can def. swing $155

Greengenes707 said:

It's just what he does.
His reply to you will be like this..."quality for 250$?...apogees can't read deeper than 660nm."

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apogee is a decent par meter, you just can't use it to compare lighting that have significant amounts of deep red to lighting that doesn't and expect to get reasonably accurate differences between the lighting

PurpleBuz said:

apogee is a decent par meter, you just can't use it to compare lighting that have significant amounts of deep red to lighting that doesn't and expect to get reasonably accurate differences between the lighting

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This is an interesting point. I have read that mW or mW per area is the correct metric to compare spectra that approach the limits of the visible spectrum, like deep red. When the question " how many mono leds should I add to my light" pops up, the answers given seem to be pulled out of thin air. How do we quantify how much deep red is enough? Is it like making a homemade pot of stew and adding salt, taking a taste and adding more salt, but with a spectroradiometer

Growmau5 said:

When the question " how many mono leds should I add to my light" pops up, the answers given seem to be pulled out of thin air. How do we quantify how much deep red is enough?

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my point about the apogee meter is that it simply doesn't measure someplace above 650 nm (not sure the exact cutoff). Apogee publishes a chart of their sensor and someplace around 650nm it drops off like a cliff. almost like they put in a cutoff filter for light with longer wavelengths.

That's far away from answering the question as to how much deep red is optimal. Apache uses very little deep red, yet illumitex uses exclusively 660nm deep red and they each have their own blue\red ratios.

http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/comparisons-in-quantum-sensor-output-for-different-light-sources/



look at the cobalt blue line drop off right at 650nm. Wavelengths above 650 are not measured at all.

LOL! I understand that. and my comment was meant in general really. Hell I'd do a dance if I ever hit 1.8 + gram per watt!
I'm just trying to gather enough data to build a light. I like your "Spydr" clone as that layout seems very adaptable. Once I figure my price point then I'll start a build.
And keep the videos coming!!

Growmau5 said:

I have had so much money going out lately on the equipment I need to run my garden, I just can't find an extra $350 right now for a par meter. i use a simple LUX meter to measure distribution & determine mounting height etc. If I burn something, I check it with a meter and make note. I know it isn't optimal, but it is data and I find it very useful comparing relative "brightness" between my cree led builds. I just dont publish it here or on youtube because I don't want to hear or read "lumens are for humans bro"

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And if you hold your breath long enough, they'll call ya Blue...........

I know that not everyone has one and I know what they cost...... But some of you guys are die hard hobbyists and it would seem someone has one.

And guys, If I had one, I'd loan it out ( with a refundable deposit though... I'm not that dumb...lol )

PurpleBuz said:

maybe pop22 can buy us all par meters for xmas

I wonder if he knows just how much an accurate par meter costs

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Growmau5 said:

my local hydro store gave me a 15% discount for a special order pre-pay deal. They got it straight off the Sunlight Supply truck, who I believe is the distributor.
I was looking at the out of the box apogee. I remember reading your light plot thread and you mentioned the sensor connected to a multimeter. I thought it sounded like elec engineer stuff, but if you think I can handle it, I can def. swing $155

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The sunlight sensor looks similar to Apogee. I think Apogee sensor hooked up to a multimeter is the cheapest most accurate PAR meter. It does have issues with 650+ but gets the job done well.

elec engineer stuff. ..Dont worry ..you made all those top notch DIY lights with metal brake, wire glands and what not...
You can use wago 222 to connect $155 SQ-120 directly to multimeter probes. No spicing cables needed.
I recommend getting extra set of multimeter probes that fit your multimeter, splice the wire, solder to SQ120 wires, electrical tape and if possible heatshrink.

Set multimeter to mV in DC setting
SQ 120 has Sensitivity 0.2 mV per µmol m-2 s-1
This means you divide your reading in mV with 0.2. Which means same as multiply your reading in mV with 5
and you have your µmol m-2 s-1 value. example 50mV would be 250 µmol m-2 s-1

This will be as accurate as anything under $500. If you have extra money and want something that looks fancy for 'a Growmau5 production' and can store values go ahead with something else.

@PurpleBuz That makes sense about the wavelength cut off. I would imagine Apogee has to limit the amount of filters in their sensor to keep it affordable even though plants obvious respond to wavelengths above 650nm. I kind of switched gears in my earlier comment about the amount of monos, it wasnt referring to anything you said, I'm a little scatter brained today.

@robincnn Thanks for the explanation, sounds super easy and totally worth it for the savings. I am flat ass broke at the moment, living on JBCs from Wendy's & PBJs til harvest. BUT, hypothetically , if a person wanted to step it up a notch in the light measurement game, what product is out there that kicks ass. In the spectrum king videos, he has that handheld spectroradiometer? if thats what it is. How much do you those cost?

Have you looked into far red to put your girls to 'sleep' (700+nm)? They jive with your color scheme too.



I'm just they type to get bored instantly with room improvements

Indagrow said:

Have you looked into far red to put your girls to 'sleep' (700+nm)? They jive with your color scheme too.
View attachment 3525451


I'm just they type to get bored instantly with room improvements

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I am researching and considering adding some far red very soon. Based on what I have read from meinolf, captainmorgan, and purplebuz a small amount of far red should be used only 15mins before lights off, extending 15 mins into the dark period? and not at the beginning of a light cycle due to excess stretch?

That's exactly what I'm running there is a theory attached to it but I forget the name. I'm sure someone will post it up.. Yeah I only do it at the end of my light cycle for 15 either way. First run through now tho but the science seems obvious enough

Growmau5 said:

I am researching and considering adding some far red very soon. Based on what I have read from meinolf, captainmorgan, and purplebuz a small amount of far red should be used only 15mins before lights off, extending 15 mins into the dark period? and not at the beginning of a light cycle due to excess stretch?

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technically you only need to run for 5 - 10 minutes immediately after the lights go out. but I do 15 before and 15 after because its easier to sync timers and I also want a little far red in their normal cycle.

PurpleBuz said:

technically you only need to run for 5 - 10 minutes immediately after the lights go out. but I do 15 before and 15 after because its easier to sync timers and I also want a little far red in their normal cycle.

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Have you gotten a chance to try different time durations for the Far Red period? I'm curious if there is a significant difference in stretch between the flowering trigger coming on 15 min before lights out -15 min after (30 min total) and just coming on for 15 min when the lights go out? I've been looking to try a triggering light for a little while now.

cdgmoney250 said:

Have you gotten a chance to try different time durations for the Far Red period? I'm curious if there is a significant difference in stretch between the flowering trigger coming on 15 min before lights out -15 min after (30 min total) and just coming on for 15 min when the lights go out? I've been looking to try a triggering light for a little while now.

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sorry no, did not experiment with time duration. based my 15 before and 15 after on simplicity to ensure the far red is on when the lights go off. I'v done a lot of research on Pfr plant physiology experiments over the years.

I'm not really getting any stretch from the far reds and am doing both sunrise and sunset.

but is it really worth the time, effort, and money, to have to mess around with another light for 5-15 minutes a day??

Sounds like diminishing returns to me. However, I look forward to seeing someone test this idea.

pop22 said:

but is it really worth the time, effort, and money, to have to mess around with another light for 5-15 minutes a day??

Sounds like diminishing returns to me. However, I look forward to seeing someone test this idea.

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Its definitely a valid question. As far as time and effort, this is my hobby (as I am sure it is for others) so if you enjoy doing it, then your time is free.

If you analyze it from a canna-business perspective, how much is 3-7 days worth in a flowering room. ..
-rent per sq ft of flower space
-electrical consuption per sq ft per day
-faster turn around per crop = more crops per year.

For me, I have mostly 9 week strains.
without far red: 365day / 63days = 5.79 crops per year per tray.
with far red : 365days / 60 days= 6.08 crops per year per tray.
Saving 3 days per crop would result in a full additional crop in a calendar year. Calendar years are pretty meaningless to us private growers. But If I had to report to investors on a quarterly basis, addition of far red seems like a solid investment.

But, im just thinking out loud here.

Growmau5 said:

In the spectrum king videos, he has that handheld spectroradiometer? if thats what it is. How much do you those cost?

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This this video he had the Sun System par meter.
I don't know how it compares to Apogee.

The remote sensor for the Sun Systems PAR Meter, is actually an Apogee sensor. So I'm pretty sure the Apogee and Sun Systems meter are about exactly the same. Can anybody confirm or refute this?