GroErr Grows...

Everything's humming again. Flower room (bottom-left) is filling in nicely, those 5gal are going to be monsters if I don't f' them up, drinking about 3/4 gallon per day already and they haven't really started flowering yet

Veg cabinet (top-left) has 2x Fireballs and 3x DOG's in 1gal's (culled one that was showing signs of PM, rest are looking good) from Breeder's boutique. All regs so hopefully pull at least a couple of fems, they'll run 2 rounds out. Out of sight are 2x Plemon seedlings that just went into 16 oz. cups and a couple of clones out of the cloner including my Blue Ripper male that may get some action when it grows up Bunch of clones coming up in the cloner that'll have to be sorted out, lot of strains/phenos going right now.

Veg Tent (top-right) has 4x Blue Ripper F2 clones from the pheno hunt and 1x Harlequin. They're all in 1gal's and more than ready to up-pot, will decide this week which one's will go next round, maybe all but have to consider that 2 of them could run as long as 10 weeks.

2x2 Tent (bottom-right) is packed wall-to-wall now with those 2x 3gal outdoor Blue Ripper's, have about 8" left before they hit the lights. Going to be close but should be able to get them up-potted and outside within a couple of weeks. They'll go into 15gal's, found the 10gal's a little small last year towards the end, they needed watering every other day for like 5-6 weeks.



Zoom-in of the flower room, screen-shot from my phone:


Cheers

Looking good man!

Evil-Mobo said:

Looking good man!

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Cheers and thanks, just subbed to your thread, looking good in there. Think you'll really like the Tasty LED's in comparison to what you were using before, should be like night and day once they begin flowering, good luck!

Thanks for the sub we shall see what happens. I'm thinking the COB lights and the sip containers with the water bubbling are gonna be a good combo only time will tell.

Evil-Mobo said:

Thanks for the sub we shall see what happens. I'm thinking the COB lights and the sip containers with the water bubbling are gonna be a good combo only time will tell.

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Yeah, been keeping an eye on those sips, interesting, some designs seem to take a lot of room so I'm keeping an eye out on the 5gal bucket designs. Once I get some other stuff out of the way I may try a couple to see if they're for me. Need some auto-watering or longer term watering system for sure, have a drip system I'll be using when I'm away for a week. It's Ok for that situation but not really great imo for on-going watering, the sips look more promising. Cheers.

COBs are a much more intense light source then HIDs. LEDs are cooler but stronger. I saw better results when I moved them up higher. LED-grown plants also seem to like more cal/mag.

Mohican said:

COBs are a much more intense light source then HIDs. LEDs are cooler but stronger. I saw better results when I moved them up higher. LED-grown plants also seem to like more cal/mag.

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I'm finding the switch-out from 1x 315w CMH to 300w of COBs was pretty well even, about 1 to 1.5F less using the COBs, not a big difference at all but I will appreciate that mid-summer! I've been using blurple LED's for veg and some COBs in the 2x2 tent for quite a while, it's normal now but I do remember when I first started using them that the blurple LED's could cause cal/mag defs. Never really noticed that under the COBs but I've only flowered with those.

Funny you mention the 315 as it has captured my interest. The flowers look absolutely stunning under them.

Have you a preference yet with one over the other (COB vs 315)

Evil-Mobo said:

Funny you mention the 315 as it has captured my interest. The flowers look absolutely stunning under them.

Have you a preference yet with one over the other (COB vs 315)

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I've run some older COBs in my 2x2 tent mainly for breeding but did a few flower runs under them and got good results. Over the older tech the 315w CMH has an advantage. However under the 3590's I'm expecting better output per watt, I think they'll be close. What I do like about COBs/LED is the quality is consistently top-shelf and terps seem to be stronger. That said, the CMH puts out great quality, it's really difficult to compare the two techs without a proper side-by-side with same strain clones. imo they both have their advantages and combined they should produce some very nice quality and quantity. At some point I'll do a run combining the COBs around the perimeter with an LEC in the center and see what comes out

I am very curious in the future to try a CMH 315 in the 2x4 to compare to the four COB light I have en route from Tasty.

What would you list as the pro's and con's to each if we compare the 3590's to the 315 CMH?

LEDs create photons more efficiently than hot metal filaments in a glass tube. They are also very tunable because the LEDs emit at precise frequencies. Phosphor is layered over the LED to spread the frequencies and to give it a color.

The photons coming out of LEDs are like lasers. They will damage your plants and your eyes if you are not careful.

The leaves get much bigger under LED. Is this to shade the plant from the intense light? So interesting to create experiments.

Evil-Mobo said:

I am very curious in the future to try a CMH 315 in the 2x4 to compare to the four COB light I have en route from Tasty.

What would you list as the pro's and con's to each if we compare the 3590's to the 315 CMH?

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This is my first run with 3590's but in general the following applies regardless of COB tech. I think with both you'll have to weigh whether heat output (or lack thereof) is a Pro or Con. It really depends on a lot of factors because lowering heat in some conditions can be detrimental to output and raises RH which is another environmental issue in some cases. e.g. in a high humidity or cool area I'd tend to favour CMH. In a hot environment with low RH I'd favour COBs.

COB Pro's:

• More efficient, particularly the 3590's, means more light/photons/whatever you want to call it. More usable light per watt, less heat per watt.
• More flexible coverage or uses if you DIY or buy multiple/smaller panels (e.g. I went with 3x 100w Tasty LED's for that reason), allows me to add/remove for different runs/footprints as needed
• Allow for taller plants in height constrained grows. e.g. minimum for CMH is pot height + ~14" for fixture + 20" above canopy = ~40" of overhead + height of plants
• Highest quality buds/terps (could be taken as subjective but I'm consistently blown away by quality when I grow under COBs)
• Lower overall operating costs in warmer environments, e.g. less cooling required

COB Cons:

• Heat and related humidity has to be accounted for in certain areas/environments. Less heat can be good, but in colder climates/winter it can work against you and benefits could be negated by having to heat your room ($)
• Lower heat = higher humidity, in high RH areas this could work against you and require additional equipment like a dehumidifier
• Single colour COB designs lack wider range of spectrum, could cost more if you want more of certain spectrum (e.g. UV, 730nm)
• Initial cost/investment is highest out of any lighting tech

Philips 315w CMH Pro's:

• Very efficient, most efficient bulb-style tech due to the ballast technology used to fire/burn them (excluding COBs of course)
• Lower cost investment up-front compared to COBs, even DIY (getting closer in DIY but not in commercial panels)
• Wider spectrum, covers a wide spectrum range, no enhancers (UV, 730nm) required for great results
• Faster finishing times - typically seeing 4-6 days less than running them under COBs without 730nm triggers, or hps
• High quality buds, enhanced terps, particularly compared to hps

Philips 315w CMH Cons:

• Height restricted rooms could be a problem dissipating additional heat compared to COBs (6' minimum height suggested)
• Overhead of ~40" puts these at a disadvantage in low-height rooms/tents
• Higher heat output compared to COBs, somewhere between COBs and hps (could be good or bad, depends on location/environment)
• Requires bulb replacement, every 1 1/2 years or so @12/12

Can't think of many other major factors but if anyone has anything to add please go ahead, cheers.

GroErr said:

This is my first run with 3590's but in general the following applies regardless of COB tech. I think with both you'll have to weigh whether heat output (or lack thereof) is a Pro or Con. It really depends on a lot of factors because lowering heat in some conditions can be detrimental to output and raises RH which is another environmental issue in some cases. e.g. in a high humidity or cool area I'd tend to favour CMH. In a hot environment with low RH I'd favour COBs.

COB Pro's:

• More efficient, particularly the 3590's, means more light/photons/whatever you want to call it. More usable light per watt, less heat per watt.
• More flexible coverage or uses if you DIY or buy multiple/smaller panels (e.g. I went with 3x 100w Tasty LED's for that reason), allows me to add/remove for different runs/footprints as needed
• Allow for taller plants in height constrained grows. e.g. minimum for CMH is pot height + ~14" for fixture + 20" above canopy = ~40" of overhead + height of plants
• Highest quality buds/terps (could be taken as subjective but I'm consistently blown away by quality when I grow under COBs)
• Lower overall operating costs in warmer environments, e.g. less cooling required

COB Cons:

• Heat and related humidity has to be accounted for in certain areas/environments. Less heat can be good, but in colder climates/winter it can work against you and benefits could be negated by having to heat your room ($)
• Lower heat = higher humidity, in high RH areas this could work against you and require additional equipment like a dehumidifier
• Single colour COB designs lack wider range of spectrum, could cost more if you want more of certain spectrum (e.g. UV, 730nm)
• Initial cost/investment is highest out of any lighting tech

Philips 315w CMH Pro's:

• Very efficient, most efficient bulb-style tech due to the ballast technology used to fire/burn them (excluding COBs of course)
• Lower cost investment up-front compared to COBs, even DIY (getting closer in DIY but not in commercial panels)
• Wider spectrum, covers a wide spectrum range, no enhancers (UV, 730nm) required for great results
• Faster finishing times - typically seeing 4-6 days less than running them under COBs without 730nm triggers, or hps
• High quality buds, enhanced terps, particularly compared to hps

Philips 315w CMH Cons:

• Height restricted rooms could be a problem dissipating additional heat compared to COBs (6' minimum height suggested)
• Overhead of ~40" puts these at a disadvantage in low-height rooms/tents
• Higher heat output compared to COBs, somewhere between COBs and hps (could be good or bad, depends on location/environment)
• Requires bulb replacement, every 1 1/2 years or so @12/12

Can't think of many other major factors but if anyone has anything to add please go ahead, cheers.

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Thank you VERY much for this. Greatly appreciated.

I have high temps and high humidity both to deal with. I am very interested in these 315w CMH the more info I get about them. Gonna have to see when I get my hands on one and give it a run. I would really like a comparison to the COB's to see first hand what's what.

Evil-Mobo said:

Thank you VERY much for this. Greatly appreciated.

I have high temps and high humidity both to deal with. I am very interested in these 315w CMH the more info I get about them. Gonna have to see when I get my hands on one and give it a run. I would really like a comparison to the COB's to see first hand what's what.

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If you have the room height I'd recommend to try one unit. Haven't heard many complaints if any by folks who have tried these 315's. There are also a few more options out there including some around the $300 range for a complete kit which is a great price compared to when I started out with them (Sun Systems LEC's were the only game in town at the time). I'll be blown away if the 3590's produce noticeably more because I've yet to see any light tech produce as nice quality and quantity as the 315's.

GroErr said:

If you have the room height I'd recommend to try one unit. Haven't heard many complaints if any by folks who have tried these 315's. There are also a few more options out there including some around the $300 range for a complete kit which is a great price compared to when I started out with them (Sun Systems LEC's were the only game in town at the time). I'll be blown away if the 3590's produce noticeably more because I've yet to see any light tech produce as nice quality and quantity as the 315's.

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For my 20"x36" definitely a no go. But the 2'x4' that will be up soon has a height of 78" so I think it would be a good candidate for a run at least with a 315w CMH.

I'm only running two cobs in my smaller setup not sure how the guys running 4 in the same space are not having heat related issues......I'm pushing the limit as is lol......

Evil-Mobo said:

For my 20"x36" definitely a no go. But the 2'x4' that will be up soon has a height of 78" so I think it would be a good candidate for a run at least with a 315w CMH.

I'm only running two cobs in my smaller setup not sure how the guys running 4 in the same space are not having heat related issues......I'm pushing the limit as is lol......

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You'll get Ok coverage in the 2x4', kind of an odd space for these though as they cover 3x3' really well, the Sun Systems can cover up to 3.5'x3.5' if you're around 24" above the canopy. Since you mentioned you're already having to deal with heat, and the space is 2x4', I'd favour COBs over CMH in that space. In a 3x3' (up to 1 metre sq.) space I'd favour 1x 315w hooded unit.

GroErr said:

You'll get Ok coverage in the 2x4', kind of an odd space for these though as they cover 3x3' really well, the Sun Systems can cover up to 3.5'x3.5' if you're around 24" above the canopy. Since you mentioned you're already having to deal with heat, and the space is 2x4', I'd favour COBs over CMH in that space. In a 3x3' (up to 1 metre sq.) space I'd favour 1x 315w hooded unit.

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Ah gotcha. The tent is actually larger than 2'x'4 it's about 4.5 which is why I decided to try it over the 3x3 as it was more space as far as sq ft went. I can always add a 3x3 and a cmh later though lol........

For that size tent, 1 tasty t4-1750 would be perfect...

kindnug said:

For that size tent, 1 tasty t4-1750 would be perfect...

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I have two en route

Evil-Mobo said:

Ah gotcha. The tent is actually larger than 2'x'4 it's about 4.5 which is why I decided to try it over the 3x3 as it was more space as far as sq ft went. I can always add a 3x3 and a cmh later though lol........

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Lol, you're sounding like me talking myself into buying new stuff, it's a hobby, what's another $500? Yeah only problem with the hooded setup is any of the hoods are more or less square so they cover off up to 3.5' but could be lacking a bit on the 4'/4.5' width. That's where the flexibility of the Tasty LED fixture design come in handy, a single 4 COB fixture like the T4-1750w could cover that area really well.