GHB ph extraction?

JediTangerine

Well-Known Member
Quick question about ph adjustment. For the ghb tek there's a part where you add vinegar to adjust the ph. My question is.. Can one use mj ph up or ph down to adjust the chemical ph? Thanks in advance to my savvy chemists
 

forgetfulpenguin

Active Member
GHB extraction? Are you sure your not synthesizing it? GHB is not naturally occurring (as far as I know) and well regulated in most countries. I'm not seeing a situation where you'd have something that contains GHB and contaminants that need removed.

I'm either going to need to know the tek you are working with or the starting material you have because nothing about this smells right. It sounds like you are getting seriously inaccurate information from somewhere.
 

JediTangerine

Well-Known Member
Lol I'm glad you're taking the time to read my post but you're missing my question entirely. Forget ghb or gbl. Can I use the ph down or up that you buy from a hydroponics shop to raise or lower the ph of a chemical soup instead of using vinegar?
 

forgetfulpenguin

Active Member
Lol I'm glad you're taking the time to read my post but you're missing my question entirely. Forget ghb or gbl. Can I use the ph down or up that you buy from a hydroponics shop to raise or lower the ph of a chemical soup instead of using vinegar?
Ok for the love of God just stop before you hurt yourself. This not an extraction, you are not working with soup! This is chemical synthesis, it is a delicate process. You need sodium hydroxide because you need the sodium atom to form an ionic bond with one of the oxygen atoms and you need the hydroxide to bond to the end of the carbon chain. If your PH is too high it's because you have added an excessive amount of sodium hydroxide. You do not fix that with vinegar, ph anything, or dog piss for that matter. You fix that by adding more of the other precursor. Chemistry may be difficult but this is a simple concept.
 

JediTangerine

Well-Known Member
Don't be rude. It's a simple yes or no question. No need to patronize me and my knowledge of the "chemical process". I can call it a chemical soup for general purposes if I damn well please. Good day sir!
 

forgetfulpenguin

Active Member
Don't be rude.
Don't fuck with dangerous chemicals if you don't know what you are doing. My rudeness can be annoying, your ignorance can kill somebody (possibly you.)
It's a simple yes or no question.
No it is not. There is no answer I can give you that will be universally applicable. Obviously adding an acid or base to an aqueous solution will lower or raise pH respectively. The real questions are, will the particular acid or base in my brand of pH whatever effect the reaction, and what the fuck else have they added to this product.
I can call it a chemical soup for general purposes if I damn well please.
You can wind up in the hospital or worse if you don't know what you are doing. You obviously don't know what you are doing and you haven't even done a modicum of studying to try and understand what you are doing. If you don't hurt yourself attempting reactions you will hurt yourself when you ingest the impure crap you turn out.

Yes I'm an asshole but I'm asshole who is trying to save you a painful experience and awkward trip to the hospital that involves you being handcuffed to the bed.
 

MrEDuck

Well-Known Member
JediTangerine, what he is saying is you don't use any pH down in this. If your pH is high you need to add more GBL to bring it down. The GBL is your acid. Every molecule of GBL will react with a molecule of sodium hydroxide to for a molecule of sodium gammahydroxybutyrate. Your pH doesn't really matter as long as it's between 6-8. There's not much hydroxide floating around at those pHs and there will be a little GBL floating around because the some of the GHB will dehydrate and form the lactone no matter what. Just mix GBL and sodium hydroxide in a ratio of 86g:40g in say 500mL of water per 40g NaOH. That's a 2M solution which is equivalent to ~250g/L or .25g/mL. Nice easy numbers to work with. I like easy numbers, they make it really hard to screw up.
 

JediTangerine

Well-Known Member
Don't fuck with dangerous chemicals if you don't know what you are doing. My rudeness can be annoying, your ignorance can kill somebody (possibly you.)

No it is not. There is no answer I can give you that will be universally applicable. Obviously adding an acid or base to an aqueous solution will lower or raise pH respectively. The real questions are, will the particular acid or base in my brand of pH whatever effect the reaction, and what the fuck else have they added to this product.

You can wind up in the hospital or worse if you don't know what you are doing. You obviously don't know what you are doing and you haven't even done a modicum of studying to try and understand what you are doing. If you don't hurt yourself attempting reactions you will hurt yourself when you ingest the impure crap you turn out.

Yes I'm an asshole but I'm asshole who is trying to save you a painful experience and awkward trip to the hospital that involves you being handcuffed to the bed.
Lol. I can't get over how rude you are. You assume that I have no knowledge or respect for chemistry like I'm some kid trying to get high on whatever. Like I'd even attempt any chemical process without knowing entirely how to do it. Instead you flip my simple question into responses to reflect your utter brilliance and knowledge of the subject. Why don't you show some remorse and apologize to me because I know that your put down attitude is not how RIU members conduct themselves. Rofl anything I make is gonna be impure trash. Thanks for that.
 

JediTangerine

Well-Known Member
JediTangerine, what he is saying is you don't use any pH down in this. If your pH is high you need to add more GBL to bring it down. The GBL is your acid. Every molecule of GBL will react with a molecule of sodium hydroxide to for a molecule of sodium gammahydroxybutyrate. Your pH doesn't really matter as long as it's between 6-8. There's not much hydroxide floating around at those pHs and there will be a little GBL floating around because the some of the GHB will dehydrate and form the lactone no matter what. Just mix GBL and sodium hydroxide in a ratio of 86g:40g in say 500mL of water per 40g NaOH. That's a 2M solution which is equivalent to ~250g/L or .25g/mL. Nice easy numbers to work with. I like easy numbers, they make it really hard to screw up.
Yes, I understood what the penguin was saying. It was just his delivery of the answers that was irksome. The ph question was a general question for all chemical processes.
 

ndangerspecimen101

Well-Known Member
Don't be rude. It's a simple yes or no question. No need to patronize me and my knowledge of the "chemical process". I can call it a chemical soup for general purposes if I damn well please. Good day sir!
Mr. Penguin is very knowledgable in these areas. I'm sure he's not trying to discredit your smartness in any fashion or form. But simply stating the facts that govern a proper GHB tutorial.

And, there's no shame in calling a chemical synthesis a chemical soup preparation. :lol:
 

XRagnorX

New Member
I dont know the first thing about this stuff however the reaction I just read used nitric acid as the solvent and lye as the sodium donor /precipitant. Whatever acid was initially used as the solvent would be used to lower ph in the reaction. Lye would raise the Ph.
In general distilled water is used to wash the reactant after it is obtained until ph reaches a desired level.

What you are asking is can I use ph up/dwn to control the reduction/oxidation of this reaction. My knee jerk responce is no. GH PH up and down are phosphoric acid (down) and Potassium Carbonate (up) unless you desire to lend Phosphorus or Potassium to your sodium reactant then Using this method would be a total fail.

Go to the goodwill and get a book on the basics of chemistry. then you will have a clue what you are doing.

Chemical reaction, no matter if you are making drugs, refining gold or making rocket fuel all follow the principle of bonding free molecules together in specific patterns, temperature and acid/basic conditions and many other very complex forces are involved in how molecules will bind together once they have been made mobile. It's like trying to solve an invisible rubix cube unless you understand what you are doing obtaining a desired result is going to be very difficult.
 

forgetfulpenguin

Active Member
Your link is no longer good! :(
Odd, it's resolving just fine on my end (they might have gone down to protest SOPA.)

Just in case
Code:
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                       Chem-R-Us NaGHB Synthesis
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Chem-R-Us NaGHB Synthesis:

If you follow this synthesis exactly as I have described, you will
always make pure NaGHB that is every bit as pure as the pharmaceutical
stuff that can be bought in sane countries.

You will need:

Clean dry beakers and graduated cylinders, a set of chemical scales,
narrow range pH strips for 5.5-8.0, a hot plate, and (if you intend
to make powder) two sealed tupperware containers, a blender and a pyrex
baking dish.

1) Accurately measure out gamma-butyrolactone (GBL) in the volume of 
milliliters (mls) you want to react.

Example: You want to react 200 mls of GBL.

2) Multiply this number by the average density of GBL (1.124 gms/ml).

Example: (200 mls GBL) * (1.124 gms/ml) = 224.8 gms GBL

3) Divide this number by the average molecular weight of GBL (86.06
gms/mol).

Example: (224.8 gms GBL) / (86.06 gms/mol) = 2.612 mols of GBL

4) Multiply this number by the average molecular weight of NaOH (40.0
gms/mol)

Example: (2.612 mols) * (40.0) = 104.5 gms NaOH

5) Weigh out this much NaOH using a set of chemical scales.

6) Heat the GBL + 5% distilled water (by volume) to 100 degrees C

Example: 200 mls GBL + 20 mls distilled water heated to 100C

7) Completely dissolve the NaOH in distilled water at the rate of about
40 grams per 100 mls of water.

Example: (104.5 gms NaOH) / (40) = 2.6125 * 100 mlw H2O = 260 mls water

8) *SLOWLY* drip (DO NOT POUR) 90% of the NaOH into the heated GBL
and make sure that the reaction is occurring (the solution will begin
boiling vigorously). If the reaction is not occuring, then you either
have not heated the GBL to 100C or you have defective reactants (throw
them out and get fresh stuff). Once the solution begins boiling, you
can turn the heat off - the reaction will make its own heat.

9) Begin measuring the pH of the reaction solution with narrow range pH
paper (5.0 - 8.0 paper). When the range begins to get to 7.5 to 8.0,
stop dripping the NaOH solution. This mixture will still have unreacted
lactone in it - so now it is time to do some steam distillation.

Steam Distillation (The purification step)

10) Put a thermometer in the solution capable of measuring 200C and
crank the heat up on the solution. You may want to add a boiling stone
made from a clean piece of pea gravel to the solution (don't use a
boiling stick because you will burn it up, and don't use a chemical
boiling stone because they contain metals that are not supposed to go
into humans).

11) When the solution gets up to 150-155C, cut the heat back enough to
hold the temperature steady at 150-155C. Hold it at that temperature
until all bubbling stops. The beaker now contains melted NaGHB.

12a) To make a liquid, add enough boiling water to make the dilution
you want.

Example: You want 1 gram NaGHB per 5 ml of solution. 200 mls of GBL
will make 329 grams NaGHB. 329 * 5 ml = 1645 mls of solution. So
add enough boiling water to bring the entire solution up to 1650 mls.

12b) To make powder, pour out thin strips of the NaGHB melt into the
pyrex casserole dish. Return the melt to the low heat to keep it
melted. Let the strips cool - they will begin to curl up if the strips
are about 1/2" to 1" in width. Scrape them up with a metal spatula and
put them into a sealed tupperware container. Pour out more strips and
repeat the procedure until you have used up all of the melt.

13) Let the strips in the tupperware container cool down and shake them
around a bit (while holding the lid tighly on). This will break up the
strips.

14) Put the boken up NaGHB pieces into a blender (no more than 1/3 full)
at high speed. You may have to shake the blender around a bit to make
sure everything is ground into powder. Pour the powder into a sealed
tupperware container.

15) You are done. Enjoy, and please don't do G and drive.

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MrEDuck

Well-Known Member
They did. The link is working fine for me.

Edit: you wouldn't want to run that tech. A strong acid has no place in a basic (as in pH>7) ester hydrolysis. Especially as a solvent. It's just 86g of GBL slowly mixed with 40g of lye, or any variant of that ratio. I suggest a 2M concentration because it works out to 0.25g/mL concentration. Quite convenient for dosing purposes. Buy an oral syringe for dosing. A 10mL one is ideal because you need two squirts to get into trouble. Unless you're mixing, but don't mix GHB with other downers. That's just begging for problems.
 

JediTangerine

Well-Known Member
What you are asking is can I use ph up/dwn to control the reduction/oxidation of this reaction. My knee jerk responce is no. GH PH up and down are phosphoric acid (down) and Potassium Carbonate (up) unless you desire to lend Phosphorus or Potassium to your sodium reactant then Using this method would be a total fail.
perfect. i think i knew this somewhere in my brain, seeing as how the up/down has to be made up of some kind of different chemical. now that you batantly point it out to me with the bonding of certain structures to others, it seems like very basic knowledge. i must have been really stoned while looking at a tek that required an adjustment in ph. looked from the tek to my bottles of ph up/down that are sitting close to me then back at the tek then back to the bottles.. then the question came to my head hahah.

ndanger! never ashamed. chemical soup for the soul
 
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