For anyone that says lec lights don't compare to hps

ANC

Well-Known Member
the last 5 min of that vid is so money

pisses me off that all those genetics were lost to the drug war
I wouldn't say they are gone, just getting rarer.
I loved the old school African stuff, it would permeate the air with such a down to earth smell even just sitting in a bag.
Some rolls past now and again and I eagerly collect the seeds, seedless weed is a white person thing over here. Noone else seems to care much.
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
Here in Michigan, dispensaries may only be supplied (indirectly) by a licensed grower. That grower may not be a caregiver (but must have been a caregiver for two years). Caregivers may not sell overages or supply product to anyone other than their own patients. Basically, if you want to legally make money by growing weed, you have to drop your patients. There are a lot of good caregivers who refuse to do that to the people who rely on them. It's a fucked up system. It would have been so much simpler (and more beneficial) if the caregivers had been allowed to sell overages from the very beginning. But our legislators have shit for brains, so fucked we all are...
thats not even a thing until december. there are no MI legal operating disp today.
illegal disp to date have been illegally supplied by growers. Even a licensed cg cannot sell outside of his five registered patient legally. a dispensary is not a patient.
this is what the issue was, we cant sell to more than five patients as cg's so there is no provision for a business to sell to 500 patients a day, until december 15th we're told. the millionaire club will have the opportunity to raffle with the state for permissions, to supply disp, to open a shop, etc
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
the deal breaker for me was when I began using a refractometer to check my brix, under hps/mh compared to older led's..

they could not compete in complete burns, high brix, normal metabolism, but they grew nice looking plants, that tested lower active ingredients than their hps sisters. can someone show me new led's have remedied this?
 

Humple

Well-Known Member
thats not even a thing until december. there are no MI legal operating disp today.
illegal disp to date have been illegally supplied by growers. Even a licensed cg cannot sell outside of his five registered patient legally. a dispensary is not a patient.
this is what the issue was, we cant sell to more than five patients as cg's so there is no provision for a business to sell to 500 patients a day, until december 15th we're told. the millionaire club will have the opportunity to raffle with the state for permissions, to supply disp, to open a shop, etc
I wasn't stating that it's ever been legal for caregivers to supply dispensaries. Just that it should have been. And it might as well be a thing now, because it's impacting the Cannabis industry in Michigan now. And yes, both you and MichiganMedGrower are correct: it's all about the money. The money that will come to the State through licenses and taxes, and the money that will come to the chosen few who get to grow, process, test, transport, and ultimately sell. It's a shit show, but that's Michigan politics. As far as Cannabis law is concerned, we're one of the more backward medical states.
 

Denkadoyl

New Member
This is my second run with 315 first run I got lb per light I expect this one to be even better and if things where tweaked to avoid issues I had I think it could have been even better I don't know about anyone else but lb per 315 watts is Allright in my book lol .. I expect to up that # in this run and I had minimal if any larf and the only larf I had was due to not trimming enough of what I wanted to off the complete bottom of the plant I just don't see the benefit of hps after using these . I was getting dense solid rock nugs even past the optimal light zone . But I did chop the top half lower the lights and let the bottom go for another week that could be why
 

tstick

Well-Known Member

Have a look at this clip. Kevin is probably the largest clone producer in the states.
He does a good job at discussing the change in the market from high-grade flower to who-cares crops that get processed into vape oils and to a lesser extent edibles.
Being an old guy who started smoking in the 70's, I can attest to the fact that the old strains had that pungent, skunk smell that would fill up a room with funk whenever anyone had a baggie of it on them. I often was that guy! :)

Then there was period of time when I had to settle for whatever was available and it seemed to just keep getting harder and harder to locate the tasty weed after awhile! I lost interest in smoking because of getting ripped off on ditch weed.

So, when I got into the medical marijuana thing after the turn of the millennium, I was certain that all the weed on the shelves would be even more skunky and flavor-packed than anything from 40 years ago....right? WRONG! In fact none of it was. None of it even came close! I think I must have wanted to believe that "professional" weed would be so much better that I probably lied to myself about it for awhile. I wanted to believe. But, the truth is the truth. And, now, having listened to that guy (who is probably close to my age, too) say what he said about the incriminating terpenes to be bred out of the strains over the years....It's exactly what I had been thinking and saying, too. Maybe it's only the old guys who can really know this truth....I have seen younger growers smirk over this subject...like, "Sure, old man...rrrrrright! Your 9% THC weed was SOOoooo much better....suuurrrre!"

People will argue that modern weed is so much more potent. But what does "potent" mean? It might have a higher THC content than ever before....but the terpenes are gone...nowhere near what they used to be on bags of weed that cost $40 at the time! -weed that was FULL of seeds, stems, leaves....poorly-grown/processed....It just didn't matter...it STILL stunk! And, now, IF you can find a flower that has some stink and flavor to it, it's treated like manna from Heaven....and rightfully so! :)

That's a great video! Thanks!
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Being an old guy who started smoking in the 70's, I can attest to the fact that the old strains had that pungent, skunk smell that would fill up a room with funk whenever anyone had a baggie of it on them. I often was that guy! :)

Then there was period of time when I had to settle for whatever was available and it seemed to just keep getting harder and harder to locate the tasty weed after awhile! I lost interest in smoking because of getting ripped off on ditch weed.

So, when I got into the medical marijuana thing after the turn of the millennium, I was certain that all the weed on the shelves would be even more skunky and flavor-packed than anything from 40 years ago....right? WRONG! In fact none of it was. None of it even came close! I think I must have wanted to believe that "professional" weed would be so much better that I probably lied to myself about it for awhile. I wanted to believe. But, the truth is the truth. And, now, having listened to that guy (who is probably close to my age, too) say what he said about the incriminating terpenes to be bred out of the strains over the years....It's exactly what I had been thinking and saying, too. Maybe it's only the old guys who can really know this truth....I have seen younger growers smirk over this subject...like, "Sure, old man...rrrrrright! Your 9% THC weed was SOOoooo much better....suuurrrre!"

People will argue that modern weed is so much more potent. But what does "potent" mean? It might have a higher THC content than ever before....but the terpenes are gone...nowhere near what they used to be on bags of weed that cost $40 at the time! -weed that was FULL of seeds, stems, leaves....poorly-grown/processed....It just didn't matter...it STILL stunk! And, now, IF you can find a flower that has some stink and flavor to it, it's treated like manna from Heaven....and rightfully so! :)

That's a great video! Thanks!

I get plants with old school pungent smells, flavors and effects constantly with seeds that are crosses of old classic strains from the original breeders.

I have ch9/ motorebel hybrids that the genetics go back to Woodhorse seeds that continually exhibit the traits of original sour diesel, Lemon Thai and pg13. Real original Herijuana too. Not the overbred indica leaning backcross sannie made. Thats is more of a heavy bland high.

And Mr. Nice (shantibaba) ones too that have original white widow, skunk and g-13. And critical mass. Which can come out with a sweet skunk pheno that is short and squat and a tall stretchier one with weird kinky leaves like gorilla glue 4 that smells like I hit a skunk.

I don't lab test anymore here. It was time to go under the radar in Michigan for a while while they set up the new dispensarie. But I am sure the strains I like are over 18% but no where near the claims like 27% thc.

Original award winning White Widow was 12%

Open a curing jar of these buds and the house will fill right up with the classic smells. Strong and pungent. I have to carry joints double zip locked or the car and I reek all day.

But it always takes 10 weeks or more flowering to get a quality flower. Many go 12 before the trichs look all cloudy and sometimes colorful (missing from most strains today)and are mature enough.

I believe short flowering and the quest for more trichomes visible on leaves in breeding and such is the problem.

And crossing elite clones rather than taking the proper steps to make a new cross. Or crossing everything with the same male just because it's a good one.

Try some seeds that are not from a newer strain of the week. And not from a newer legal state breeder. I compare often. Like you say. They can be uber potent. But have a short blaring high not a long lasting good one.

Legal weed and greedy breeders have accelerated the over breeding. And the new market wants a drug like fast hit rather than to get high on weed. I don't think they know the difference. And the dispensaries are loving the short flower cycles. Profit!

I did some dabs with a grower of some fruity purple indica cross recently and while I got a brief blast it did not get me high. Just a short stone. Very different effect. Too much thc and not enough balance for good weed. Strong as hell for a minute though. Note. I smoke and eat a lot of weed for many years. I have very high tolerance.

We smoked a joint of mine when we left. We were still laughing at stupid shit and high and happy hours later. Can't build tolerance to real good weed so much. I'm used to it but can still feel it plenty.

It is very much like I remember from the 80s and early 90's.

I grow because the Medical weed at the dispensaries here didn't keep me high or help with my illness.

I chose Greenhouse seeds auto northern lights for my first Grow. It came out way better than the dispensary weed. It was much like the northern lights I remembered. It put me on a quest for old school weed.

Don't forget that the individual Grow is more important than anything for quality. Especially the stable hospitable environment.

Sorry for the long post. The video got me thinking.
 

Humple

Well-Known Member
Very good conversation, guys! It's a shame it isn't easier to source old school genetics. I'd have to agree; the longest lasting effects I've ever experienced were from an Afghani that most would call "weak". It wasn't strong by any stretch of the imagination, but it was just so damn GOOD.
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Very good conversation, guys! It's a shame it isn't easier to source old school genetics. I'd have to agree; the longest lasting effects I've ever experienced were from an Afghani that most would call "weak". It wasn't strong by any stretch of the imagination, but it was just so damn GOOD.

Just get some sensei seeds skunk 1 and start pheno hunting. There is an elite plant you would like in those packs.
 

Black Thumb

Well-Known Member
I saw the opposite had been using 8 600watt hps perpetually for about 15years.
Been using 8 315cmh for about a year now and the difference is incredible. Way tighter buds more colors I even saw strains finish faster. Even the bottom growth we call larf was way more dense Im only seeing a few ounce difference between using a 315 watt light and using a 600 watt light. I mean just using a calculator makes this an obvious answer to anyone adding up watt for watt which yields more. The heat savings alone are worth it.
This was multiple 30 + strains tested and I can say without a doubt. It's a no brainer.


Currently testing quantum boards versus Cmh. Can't wait


Without the area and how many lights and the spacing posted there is nothing to compare with.

And of course the yield after harvest and drying time.

My Phillips 315 consistently gave 30% less yield than my Hortilux 600 HPS and way leafier and fluffier buds. And mostly larf down low where the hps gives fat dense nugs.

They are far better as a supplemental light to increase thc and terpenes. Even plant color comes out without cold temps because of the fuller spectrum.

I thought the buds might be more potent under the lec for a while in testing. But I am back to only hps as a control test and the hps buds are actually more potent according to everyone that tried them. They are not more colorful or more resinous though. Just more potent and bigger with a better leaf to bud ratio.

We are not allowed to work with dispensaries here anymore so I don't have lab tests from my comparisons last and this year.

I do prefer working under the natural light more.
 

Kerovan

Well-Known Member
Here in Michigan, dispensaries may only be supplied (indirectly) by a licensed grower. That grower may not be a caregiver (but must have been a caregiver for two years). Caregivers may not sell overages or supply product to anyone other than their own patients. Basically, if you want to legally make money by growing weed, you have to drop your patients. There are a lot of good caregivers who refuse to do that to the people who rely on them. It's a fucked up system. It would have been so much simpler (and more beneficial) if the caregivers had been allowed to sell overages from the very beginning. But our legislators have shit for brains, so fucked we all are...
Your legislators may have shit for brains, but it least it isn't as bad as the diarrhea in my state legislature who won't approve any type of use at all...
 

CobKits

Well-Known Member
Being an old guy who started smoking in the 70's, I can attest to the fact that the old strains had that pungent, skunk smell that would fill up a room with funk whenever anyone had a baggie of it on them. I often was that guy! :)
that musta been before my time, 99% of what i got as a teenager in the 80s was the brown frown. we got hawaiian once and it blew my noob mind. $15/gram and i thought i was getting ripped off
 

Humple

Well-Known Member
Your legislators may have shit for brains, but it least it isn't as bad as the diarrhea in my state legislature who won't approve any type of use at all...
Well ours didn't really approve it either. It was all done via voter initiative. The legislature has hated and fought against MM ever since. The new laws they just passed make dispensaries "legal", but at great cost to anyone who chooses to participate in their fucked up system.

But I feel for you, man. It's all bullshit. Hope you and your State see some change soon!
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
I saw the opposite had been using 8 600watt hps perpetually for about 15years.
Been using 8 315cmh for about a year now and the difference is incredible. Way tighter buds more colors I even saw strains finish faster. Even the bottom growth we call larf was way more dense Im only seeing a few ounce difference between using a 315 watt light and using a 600 watt light. I mean just using a calculator makes this an obvious answer to anyone adding up watt for watt which yields more. The heat savings alone are worth it.
This was multiple 30 + strains tested and I can say without a doubt. It's a no brainer.


Currently testing quantum boards versus Cmh. Can't wait

I get almost a gram per watt consistently with low and medium yielding strains from my 600's.

I did a bit better per watt with cmh but even if I got to 1.5 gpw with the cmh I would still be about 125 grams short.


Many growers are saying what you are but my opinion is that you were not getting the most out of the hps. You mention heat. That was likely the problem. I ditched the 3rd lamp this summer to keep my room in the mid 70's.

I do like when the 315 is with them as it promotes green leaves and plant health in general.


I also had some strains finish earlier. A week to 10 days earlier but not most of them.

I do not have experience with multiple 315's and that would give a lot more overlapping light to the space.

But I stand with my tests with 1 lamp side by side. The 315 is more efficient but can never yield what a good 600w hps Grow can.

The common claim is they produce more than a 600. Not more per watt. A direct replacement.

My findings are closer to yours but I need the heat from my 600 to supplement the heat of my house in winter. They save me a whole tank of propane out here in the woods. Propane is expensive!

So it is not a "no brainer" for everyone. Every Grow is different.

I think they are equal to about 450 watts of hps. Which is pretty awesome electrically. And I agree about the other benefits except lower bud growth
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
that musta been before my time, 99% of what i got as a teenager in the 80s was the brown frown. we got hawaiian once and it blew my noob mind. $15/gram and i thought i was getting ripped off

In the 80's in New Jersey before Mrs. Reagan started the war against drugs and MADD we used to be offered grams of different buds from around the world for 10-20 bucks.

They were called names like Hawaiian, African Ghanja, Thai weed and even "Hydro" was a choice.

In Philadelphia at some city Asian markets in the hood the people in the know would get a menu of weed available.

For $20 we would get an actual glass vile of top quality weed. It was always worth it.

Some of it was very old like the African was smeared with black resin all over the cellophane it was in and the plant matter was old and brown.

But it made us trip out hard. And for hours. Red eyed and laughing uncontrollably sometimes.

The hydro was usually light green and fresh. Likely early California medical hybrids. Also much better than today's high thc weed.

We also had outdoor skunk growing in state that was the original pungent shit that would always get us caught. The smell even double bagged could penetrate a room.

Man I love weed :-)
 

Kerovan

Well-Known Member
In the 80's in New Jersey before Mrs. Reagan started the war against drugs and MADD we used to be offered grams of different buds from around the world for 10-20 bucks.

They were called names like Hawaiian, African Ghanja, Thai weed and even "Hydro" was a choice.

In Philadelphia at some city Asian markets in the hood the people in the know would get a menu of weed available.

For $20 we would get an actual glass vile of top quality weed. It was always worth it.

Some of it was very old like the African was smeared with black resin all over the cellophane it was in and the plant matter was old and brown.

But it made us trip out hard. And for hours. Red eyed and laughing uncontrollably sometimes.

The hydro was usually light green and fresh. Likely early California medical hybrids. Also much better than today's high thc weed.

We also had outdoor skunk growing in state that was the original pungent shit that would always get us caught. The smell even double bagged could penetrate a room.

Man I love weed :-)
Wow, I can't believe how expensive it was for you!. In the early 80s I was paying $35 for an oz of high quality bud, $100 for a qp.
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Wow, I can't believe how expensive it was for you!. In the early 80s I was paying $35 for an oz of high quality bud, $100 for a qp.

We could get "lids" for $40. About 3/4 oz of decent Mexican regs (not sure they were Mexican) and what they called semi-kind eventually which was like semi seeded but fresher light green bud that was really good and our staple.

$50 quarter. 6-800 qp. Pounds negotiable.

It was New Jersey. Not an inexpensive state.
 
Top