Flushing to correct PH/Mag Deficiency

OPU

Well-Known Member
Hi all.

I am having what I suspect are PH problems in my Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil. My water goes in at 7-7.2 and runs off around 5. I did an experiment on one plant last night an flushed it: 3 gallon pot flushed with 9 gallons of water. Yet, my run off PH is still coming out around five. Can anybody make any suggestions about how to fix this issue? I transplanted to FFoF from 1 gallon coco a week ago. Could the Ph be from the coco left in the pots? I believe I am showing signs of a magnesium deficiency. Any advice would be much appreciated. I am under 2 600 HPS. Only fed them one time with FF nutes at 1/4 strength. Plants pictured are Jack Frost, about a month old. Thanks everybody.
 

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
OPU,
I would stop flushing and worrying about runoff ph. If your plants looked horrible...maybe look at that. But they look good with just a minor Mg deficiency. Correct the Mg deficiency and chill...maybe smoke a doobie. lol
JD
 

OPU

Well-Known Member
JohnDee,
Thanks for the response and the laid-back advice from a fellow Oregonian. :eyesmoke: I'm going to try some Epsom salt and see if that improves the situation. Unless, you or someone else is has a better approach...?
 

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
Epson salts are a good approach to the Mg issue. Since your def. is not profound...I'd personally go with 1/2 tsp/gal...then taper off to 1/4 tsp as maintenance dose. Had lots of Mg issues with White Widow.
JD
 

Fresh 2 De@th

Well-Known Member
if ph is coming out around 5.0+ in your runoff, i would suggest definitely flushing it.

make a mix, dilute it down to 400-500 ppms and leach it until ph is at least 6.3.

also, keep in mind on how you feed, because if the food is too strong it will bring you ph down. if it's weak, it will bring your ph up. if you find the range of food that the plants like, it will remain stable.
 

OPU

Well-Known Member
OPU,
Just read this rap today and it seems pertinent to your concerns.
JD

https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog17764-ph-your-tap-water-soil.html
Thanks for this one, JohnDee. Makes a lot more sense to me to check soil PH than run-off. I used to grow many years ago in soil and would average .5 -.75 grams per watt and never ever once checked PH. Methinks I am trying to get too fancy. I am going to foliar feed with Epsom salt. Mag deficiency makes sense since the plant by far showing the worst symptoms is a White Widow cross. A thousand thanks to you and I will keep everybody posted on the outcome.
 

OPU

Well-Known Member
if ph is coming out around 5.0+ in your runoff, i would suggest definitely flushing it.

make a mix, dilute it down to 400-500 ppms and leach it until ph is at least 6.3.

also, keep in mind on how you feed, because if the food is too strong it will bring you ph down. if it's weak, it will bring your ph up. if you find the range of food that the plants like, it will remain stable.
Thanks for the info, Fresh 2De@th. I am a bit skeptical of the PH run-off situation since I did 3:1 water:soil flush and saw absolutely no change in the run-off PH. I'm going to dig deeper and try for a more accurate reading on the soil itself.
 

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
OPU,
Indeed I had that link in mind when I made my original post on your thread. Oh, and welcome to RUI...always nice to have a fellow Oregonian here.

I don't claim this as an original aphorism, but it came to mind as I read your posts. And that is: treat the plant...and not the numbers. At this point, your plant is only showing a mild Mg deficiency. Those Widows love their magnesium...
JD
 

racerboy71

bud bootlegger
I agree with john doe, the pH of the run off tells you nothing but the pH of the run off, nothing more, nothing less .. and who cares what your run off is ??
I grow in ffof all the time and have not once checked run off pH..
If you're having cal/ mag problems, buy some cal mag plus from any number of Nite co's, or try Epsom salts, although i can't vouche for that method personally..
I use cal mag plus from botanic are and love it.though .. some plants are notorious cal msg whores, like c99..
 

OPU

Well-Known Member
JohnDee,
Thanks for the welcome. Good to be here. I do believe I have ben overcomplicating these things. Must be the excitement of getting back into growing.
 

OPU

Well-Known Member
racerboy71,
Thanks for the input. Seemed odd to me to be checking water that had simply "passed through" my soil. I am going with a foliar feed of Epsom salt and if it still looks like trouble, I will be all over the Cal-Mag. You guys are great!
 

racerboy71

bud bootlegger
racerboy71,
Thanks for the input. Seemed odd to me to be checking water that had simply "passed through" my soil. I am going with a foliar feed of Epsom salt and if it still looks like trouble, I will be all over the Cal-Mag. You guys are great!
Yeah, I wasn't trying to be a dick at all, but I don't understand how people think that by passing water quickly through a soil it will tell you anything about the pH of the soil is all..
And imvho, it seems more people tend to create more issues than they had originally by chasing some imaginary perfect number for soil pH.. seems things tend to go down hill quickly once people start adjusting pH quickly and rapidly over a short period of time..
Let us know how you make out with the epson though for sure..
 

Sand4x105

Well-Known Member
PH.... soil grows.... seriously, the last 80 plants I have never checked the PH of anything....
Everything is fine... and the taste/bud size everything... What does corrected soil run off going to get you any way?
 

OPU

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I wasn't trying to be a dick at all, but I don't understand how people think that by passing water quickly through a soil it will tell you anything about the pH of the soil is all..
And imvho, it seems more people tend to create more issues than they had originally by chasing some imaginary perfect number for soil pH.. seems things tend to go down hill quickly once people start adjusting pH quickly and rapidly over a short period of time..
Let us know how you make out with the epson though for sure..
I hear you! The run-off test seems like not enough info can be gained from it. Or, worse, skewed info. I'll be sure to update. Giving them the Epsom salt in about an hour.
 

Fresh 2 De@th

Well-Known Member
I agree with john doe, the pH of the run off tells you nothing but the pH of the run off, nothing more, nothing less .. and who cares what your run off is ??
I grow in ffof all the time and have not once checked run off pH..
If you're having cal/ mag problems, buy some cal mag plus from any number of Nite co's, or try Epsom salts, although i can't vouche for that method personally..
I use cal mag plus from botanic are and love it.though .. some plants are notorious cal msg whores, like c99..
hmm, no disrespect to you or anyone who sides with you, but ph and ppms from runoff tells a lot. i don't know how you water, but any time that anyone runs water "quickly"through any medium (soil/soilless) would be considered bad technique and explains why you'll are having a hard time getting a proper or close to proper reading from you'll runoff.
now that's not to say that the reading for ph would 100% correct, but it would be close, taking or adding .1-.2. if one is looking or wanting to know the exact reading of their ph, one would have to get it lab tested. the next best thing would be to take a piece of soil from the root zone and sit it in a cup of distilled water for 30 minutes. if you have no time or patience for any of the two, slowly and evenly watering your plants and catching the first set of runoff would suffice as well.

now being that some seem or want to get technical, the reason why most growers that grows in soil choose or feel there's no need to check for ph, often supplement with lime and or bennies to keep ph in optimal range to prevent such cases as the op is experiencing. hence the reason why most (well good growers) in soil have no need to check for ph.
with that being said, i can guarantee that the op ph is in the 5.0 range and is the reason why he's experience what looks to like a magnesium and phosphorous problem.
 

OPU

Well-Known Member
Hey all.
I just want to report back now that it has been a week and my girls are doing very much better. I did an epsom salt foliar feed and they loved it. Then I got some cal mag and they very much appreciated that. The are standing green and proud. Thanks for all the advice. I think I can trace the issue to a) transplanting from the more acidic coco medium to soil and b) the water in Portland is incredibly soft so supplementation seems necessary. I did some tests with runoff PH and it always comes out extremely acidic. And, yes, I do know how to water my plants :) I also did a PH test with a soil slurry and got a much more accurate reading. I spoke to a friend of mine who works in the wine industry as an agricultural scientist and she kind of chuckled when I spoke of testing runoff PH. Her words: "Well, now you know your runoff PH". Her point being, like many of yours, that run-off PH is practically useless in soil grows. There you have it. I appreciate all of the help.

i can guarantee that the op ph is in the 5.0 range and is the reason why he's experience what looks to like a magnesium and phosphorous problem.
I am glad you were willing to take time to answer, but speaking in absolutes and guaranteeing my PH to be at a certain level, isn't helpful advice. You might be a good grower but you might take into account that you may not know everything about a certain situation before you make such boasts.
 

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
OPU,
Glad your plant is back on track. I recently checked my county webpage and discovered my tapwater is below 25ppm and ph 6.7...who could ask for better then that. Must be all the rain! Carry on...
JD
 

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
OPU,
I wonder if that would hold up in court? Your Honor, I had to grow...the water was too perfect!
bongsmilie
JD
 
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