First timer seeking wisdom

Hey all.

First, sorry for the long post. Want to include as much context as possible so I’ll stick to facts to keep it short as possible.

Day 31 white widow from seed. Space bucket using happy frog and ocean forest + perlite. Temps low 70s and humidity 50-60%. pH is 6.0-6.6ish for both water and soil. Water (distilled) every 3 days until a very small amount of runoff. I just started with a weak cal-mag solution today. No other additional nutes just yet.

FIM’d 4 days ago (5 nodes - probably late since I’m going for a compact plant?) but no other training. Leaves have stuck so close to the main stem I’m not seeing a lot of opportunities.

Seeing leaves taco-ing and bent down like you see in the pictures. Wondering if this isn’t drooping as much as leaves angling to catch the light from the led strip lining the side of the bucket since the ufo led isn’t getting to them. At other times she looks fantastic (I think).

Also concerned about density. She should be thinner for light penetration to bud sites but again I’m not recognizing the training opportunities and trying to minimize experimentation during first grow.

So basically, would you have concerns with this plant? Any recommendations?

Thanks a lot for whatever insights you’ve got.

grasshopper923 said:

Water (distilled) every 3 days until a very small amount of runoff.

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Hmmm. You should at least have a 20% run off. May want to test that Soils Ph again.

Looks like bad drainage. Typical over watering look.

I like to saturate the soil with water and then wait until the soil is dry 3/4 the way down the pot with a probe moisture meter. It is alarmingly light with a small plant when ready for another watering.

Also. Distilled water has no stability from buffers. Tap water is usually better for soil. And you should not need cal mag with tap water or soil in general. The lime and oyster shell maintain the ph at the root zone.

Ok cool. I guess I was just trusting FF soul to drain effectively. Also I read that you shouldn't water FF soil to 20% runoff because it depletes the nutrients, so I thought I had to be doing good with the watering.

I’ll drill a few more holes, switch to tap, lay off the cal-mag, and see how she goes. Really appreciate the advice!

grasshopper923 said:

Ok cool. I guess I was just trusting FF soul to drain effectively. Also I read that you shouldn't water FF soil to 20% runoff because it depletes the nutrients, so I thought I had to be doing good with the watering.

I’ll drill a few more holes, switch to tap, lay off the cal-mag, and see how she goes. Really appreciate the advice!

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Slow down bud. You could just be overwatering a bit. Try changing one thing at a time for control.

Tap water of between about 100ppm total mineral content and 250 ppm should work best. Harder water need dilluting with filtered water or an acid added. Softer may need calcium or mag added.

I always add 25% extra large perlite to my ocean forest. And plants your size would not need more water for up to 5 days in my system.

You are correct in not washing out nutrients with excessive runoff but the tips are guidelines and the grower must learn to read the plants and react not follow a recipe. Every room and Grow is different.

So I use less runoff in the beginning and as i transplant up more gradually as I see root stress in the leaves. They go hand in hand so to speak.

Once I start fertilizing I use about 20% runoff to be sure to melt down and help wash out the mineral buildup that will eventually block the roots.

If it builds up despite my efforts or I overfeeding I leach the pots with fresh water and then re feed but lighter.

It’s just basic medium management and common in Greenhouse guides and such. But on weed sites everything is micromanaged and confusing to learn.

Yeah and I’ve never been a gardener so it’s all new. I’m quick to defer to more experienced growers (which is anyone who’s kept a plant alive beyond a month and a day). She is looking a lot livelier this morning. Soil is still moist but not saturated. If overwatering is the issue I don’t think it’s a severe case.

That’s what it looks like. The ribbed curled down leaves and then the roots stay soggy and the rot can set in. The leaf burn is happening as the roots get sick and stop uptaking.

Anyway I’m high as a kite and babbling. Just let them dry out and don’t over manage anything. It takes days to really see the results of what is done. So like I said. Slow down some. Read some more about the things you think may be wrong now. We all have a hard learning curve. I never watered a house plant before I decided to finally grow mine. And I made the mistake that makes plants look like yours too of course.

calmag will be your downfall in happy frog/ocean forest soil.
If you want more light = then supply more light
and if you want smaller plants= veg with a shorter period. Buds will be good to your light penetration point. cutting leaves off to gain more penetration is futile. check out a light meter.

if your container is 2 gallons you will need to add 1/2 gallon of tap water each time you water the plant through its life cycle.
Water when soil is dry to the bottom right before your plants wilt for best results.

Thanks fellas. Gonna try to chill out and stop fighting everything all the time. It’s just hard because I love her so much!

Yo, Initially that looks like over watering.. One thing i've learned is to always grab the pot and feel how heavy it is when deciding to water or not.. It should almost feel like there is little to no dirt in the pot (VERY LIGHT) and after a while you can begin to look at your plants and know when it will need or does need a watering.

In the early stages of germination/vegetation plants are pretty chill. I don't use any nutes (cept CA-MG for my RO water) until about week 2-3 of veg and at that point my ladies have shown promising vegetative growth.

One thing I learned from my mentor some 10 years ago... that has helped me tremendously is..

ITS JUST A WEED! don't try TOO hard.

Hope she perks up for ya!

Quick update. Leaf burn getting worse. Does this look like root rot? Would something like Hydroguard help or should I just keep letting her dry out and keep my fingers crossed? Any recommendations appreciated.

how heavy is the pot? does it feel like there is almost no dirt in there? stick your finger into the soil.. do you feel any moisture at all?

Do us a favor and put the ladies under the light just like you would when it is growing and take some pics. I want to see a general layout of your setup, light distance, fan placement, etc. thanks!

IMO it looks like a case of over watering mixed with a small nutrient burn.

So happy frog and ocean forest both are nutrient packed soils correct? if so, Don't give them any nutrients man they don't need it yet!

Also I see some lower leaves there that look brown and look like they are receiving no light at all, you can snip those away and discard them as they are drawing energy from your plants for a useless cause. Having a little more open air at soil level will also help your dirt dry out. Those plants are pretty small to be drinking water every 3 days.. i sometimes go 5-7 days with small plants before they're ready for a drink. Its easy to over do it trying to produce good results but it is JUST a weed my friend. weeds grow well.... like weeds in nature, with absolutely no help from man. I've learned to let it ride, and don't try to push it !

Thanks for the quick response. Believe me I won’t be repeating the overwatering mistake and I’m not adding nutrients any time soon.

As for setup it’s a space bucket:
2 120mm pc fans
138w ufo led (10” away (too close?), had it even closer than that - temps stayed in lower 70s at top of plant)
Plus some led strip lighting

Feels like the intake fan is too close so I have a bent piece of paper deflecting the air so it circulates but doesn’t blow right on the plant. Maybe with the overwatering I should get that out of the way though.

Sorry to intrude, but. I'm seeking some advice.. my girls are in 3 gal smart pots, and up until today they'e been watered every 3 days.. today I noticed my soil isn't dry. And it's day 3.. so I checked my ph and found out my meter was off, my last watering was with 4.8.. would that low of a ph cause the girls to not take up water? Or is there something else going on perhaps? My fimmed runt looks good, where as the bigger manifold looks almost over watered, but it shouldn't be as I've let the fabric pots completely dry every time

grasshopper923 said:

Thanks for the quick response. Believe me I won’t be repeating the overwatering mistake and I’m not adding nutrients any time soon.

As for setup it’s a space bucket:
2 120mm pc fans
138w ufo led (10” away (too close?), had it even closer than that - temps stayed in lower 70s at top of plant)
Plus some led strip lighting

Feels like the intake fan is too close so I have a bent piece of paper deflecting the air so it circulates but doesn’t blow right on the plant. Maybe with the overwatering I should get that out of the way though.

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I don’t know much about LED tbh, but because your plant is just 1 plant under a light with reflection all around it may be getting too much light.

I WOULD... (and this is MY preference, I can get thru a plants life cycle fairly easy with stellar results) remove the reflection barrier, move the light up 4-6 inches (again I know nothin about LEDS), and replace the fan with an oscilating fan (if thats an option). Plants need room to breath, to grow. I’ve included a couple pics (1 of fresh clones entering veg, and 1 of a flowering plant cuz well... its dank).

My veg plants have no reflection close by and they have 3 oscillating fans on them. They dry out every 4 days, becoming every 2-3 as they grow.

Do you know what your tap water is coming out of your faucet at? If its 200 ppm or below maybe you should try plain tap water ph’d to 6.2

I cannot stress enough, it’s just a weed. Give it light, air, and water (and food **WHEN NEEDED**) It will grow!

ThatCrispyKid said:

Sorry to intrude, but. I'm seeking some advice.. my girls are in 3 gal smart pots, and up until today they'e been watered every 3 days.. today I noticed my soil isn't dry. And it's day 3.. so I checked my ph and found out my meter was off, my last watering was with 4.8.. would that low of a ph cause the girls to not take up water? Or is there something else going on perhaps? My fimmed runt looks good, where as the bigger manifold looks almost over watered, but it shouldn't be as I've let the fabric pots completely dry every time

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They will drink water as long as they have light and air flow. A Low ph may cause them not to absorb nutrients properly but they will always drink, unless they have had a constant regimine of overwatering.

IMO those girls are too small for a 3 gal pot but they will grow into it. The fabric on my smart pot dries out the day I water because I have so much air flow. However my full flowering plants still need 3 days between each watering as in Water monday, wait-tues, wait-wed, wait-thur, water-Friday. Those plants are 4 feet tall and 2-3 feet wide.

The weight of the pot should feel very light, almost like its empty before You need a drink!