Few potential LED builds... help will be required!

Hi guys, so i've spent hours reading posts from some very helpful members on here. SupraSPL, guod, Green Surfer, tebos, stardust sailor,PetFlora and others... well i'd really like to try a DIY LED out for my main flowering drobe (also spend a week or two vegging in there from a couple of rooted clones for a scrog)... but I also have a small PC grow box using small 8w T5's in 6500k at the moment which does well.


So my main wardrobe is around 75cm wide, 55cm deep and 140cm tall... my medium is usually NFT with the scrog screen sat 6" above... usually looked more like a SOG grow in the end but plenty of bud sites . Here is what I managed last harvest:







I usually run 125w cfl for veg then 250w hps dual spec for first 4 weeks of flower and have upped it to 400w dual spec hps in an aircooled reflector for the last 4 weeks but with little gain. With the 250w I pulled 256gram and with the 400w for the last 4 weeks of flower I pulled around 10... so really I want to be able to pull 10-12oz from a decent LED setup running between 250-400w and covering the area in there as best possible.


Now... I also bought this random box a while ago, and considered a few ideas but I was unsure on what to do it. Its a brushed stainless steel IP66 box with wall thickness of around 10mm (Might be less, in fact it probably is) and internal dimensions of 78.5cm*58.5cm*22cm, weighs around 20kg though and is wall mountable (probably have to cut into it for fans so not ip66 anymore! lol.). I'm thinking I could use the entire enclosure as a heatsink and just surface mount the led's (making sure the electrical contacts on the leds are well insulated? I've also a few waterblocks around for graphics cards that might come in useful but I think passive cooling is more than enough. Perhaps I could salvage some old car amplifiers for their heatsinks to.


My veg mini PC has a small flood n drain setup in there with an 3*8w t5 aquarium lamp above them. Only around 300 lumens each when on but they're very very close and seem to do well for both seeds and rooting cuttings. I have since seen 11w PL 6500k bulbs with 1100 lumen so these would be more efficient but hey, its working as it is at the moment with 8w low output t5's lol.






I orginally considered the DS 11 band panels from Eshine as they seem to get fair reviews (but i'd like the expert opinion there).


After spending a long ass time looking through threads, and trying to collate some information together... Perhaps I have something useful below:


So here is what I have put together below, I apologise its not more structured and its a little random... now perhaps someone can correct everything and give us the lowdown! Also... whats best regarding layouts, does guod still recommend that markaber led array layout?


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So I wanted to start with the Rebel upgrade modules Grow Northern offer for their MS0004/0006 panels... All I can say when pricing things up is that they are fair prices for what goes into them. The results with these panels are pretty astounding and solid so the spectrum must be pretty well balanced so its a good thing to look at. When we break it down we have the following:


Philips Luxeon


LXM3-PD01-0350 Deep Red 650-670nm * 18:
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=2062933&CMP=KNC-GUK-FUK-GEN-SKU-MDC&mckv=sSGstoc76|pcrid|27272926208|kword|lxm3 pd01|match|p|plid|
- £2.64 (£47.52)


LMXL-PR01-0500 Royal Blue 440-460nm* 4:
http://uk.farnell.com/lumileds/lxml-pr01-0500/rebel-royal-blue-440nm-460nm/dp/2062929RL
- £3.52 (£14.0


LXM8-PW27 Warm White 2700k * 2:
http://uk.farnell.com/lumileds/lxm8-pw27/rebel-white-2700k/dp/2062937RL
- £1.84 (£3.6


LXW8-PW50 Cool White 5000k * 4:
http://uk.farnell.com/lumileds/lxw8-pw50/rebel-es-white-5000k/dp/2062943RL
- £2.93 (£11.72)


Everlight Shuen LED's
ELSH-Q61F1-0LPNM-JF3F8 - Far Red 715-745nm * 2:
http://uk.farnell.com/everlight/elsh-q61f1-0lpnm-jf3f8/led-1w-far-red-125mw/dp/1859318
- £2.64 (£5.2


Lisa 2 Secondary Optic from LEDiL (C12469-LISA2-R-PIN * 30 77 degrees 88% efficiency) * 30:
http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ledil/C12469_LISA2-R-PIN/?qs=/ha2pyFaduhNQ/PKzWi/Jy13uaWRLmQ1BhBSHeQWQ%2b8=
- £0.93 (£27.90)


Of course as you would expect for flowering we see an abundance of Red in multiple wavelengths for heavy flower production... we also see that cool and warm whites are a primary offering responsible for more of the red spectrum but also they contain mostly all the blue that is needed. However I wouldn't like to neglect blues entirely, as Grow Northern haven't by including the royal blue 440-460nm. Now for flowering panels white and red is all thats needed, having seen Danny Danko's videos on youtube and seeing the Nasa X5 Spectrum its been my primary focus as the plants looked lovely although slightly bleached.


[video=youtube;MVNxNVnkBPE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVNxNVnkBPE[/video]


AT120WR has similar layout



At the moment i'm unsure on whether a warm white or cool white or a mixture of both is the solution... and the options are endless, however the main option for the most efficient white LED are offerings from CREE LED. Here are a run down of some of the best CREE LED's I could find through help of trauling other posts... (I hope you don't mind me using this information, we all have a common goal of course!).


CREE LED:


Cree XT-E 3000K Warm White R3 Bin:
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1594&cat=176
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1596


Cree XM-L Neutral White 5000k 280lm, 700ma:
http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cree-Inc/XMLBWT-02-0000-000LT60E3/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu4Prknbu83yyq8B/Da/kIgyb63LC6Ibac=


Cree XM-L 6500K Cool White, 300lm, 700ma, 2.9v:
http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cree-Inc/XMLBWT-00-0000-0000U20E1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu4Prknbu83yyq8B/Da/kIgYwGxVopW6o4=


Cree XM-L 3000K Warm White 220lm, 700ma, 2.9v:
http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cree-Inc/XMLBWT-00-0000-000HT30E7/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu4Prknbu83yyq8B/Da/kIgVKOKanl/JvU=


Cree XT-E Royal Blue 453nm, 600lm, 350ma, 2.85v:
http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cree-Inc/XTEARY-02-0000-000000Q04/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu4Prknbu83y0klVpNR6TwjMNzyO8u0%2b90=


Cree XP-E2 Red 630nm, 73.9lm, 350ma, 2.2v:
http://it.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cree-Inc/XPEBRD-L1-0000-00801/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu4Prknbu83y347eV2QbS8gLqcpWZQG5lA=


CREE XM-L2 4200K LED, 186lm, 2.9-3.5v, 700ma:
http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/goods.php?id=1869




Then there is your red options... apparently the olson SSL80 Hyper Red 3T bin is the muts nuts but I do believe they also offer a 150 degree lens for a wider spread for less saturation which I feel would be better for close proximity scrogging at a high W/Sq ft ratio.


OLSON by Osram


OLSON SSL80 Hyper Red 3T (Star 20mm OSLON red 660nm SSL80 3T bin):
http://ideal-spectrum-led.com/epages/box21231.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/box21231/Products/700[2]


Now apparently
Philips Luxeon's 625nm red offers a broader spectrum than olson, but olson broader at hyper red to cover all bases. I'd possibly opt for a mix of reds perhaps luxeons and olsons?




Now for mounting we have these triple stars... for clustering LED's but this presents problems with heat potentially depending on where the hell you choose to mount them. I'm probably going to use the enclosure that they're in or I will have to create some kind of heatsink, they're available but expensive but i'm sure I can be innovative with a heatsink.


The CutterMCPCB-20TIAD is 20mm triple star MCPCB Aluminum MCPCB designed to accommodate 3 pcs of the Cree XPx, Lumileds Rebel, Osram Oslon and numerous other leds in the 3.45mm Square form factor:
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1369?


We may even choose to lap the back of the PCB stars in order to create a better thermal transfer against the heatsink surface using finer grits of suitable paper... check ebay for heatsink lapping kits .


A cool little option someone made is the hans panel. Check it out here:
http://www.bonsaihero.com/ledgrow.html


Very cool little passive cooled units. The options for heatsinks are literally endless. So do we cluster or not? And as for lens's? Do we use any? I don't know... Drivers... to power the LED's, adjustable would be nice or possibly multiple circuits for a veg spectrum with less red.


Option for cooling?
http://www.designingwithleds.com/combined-solder-pad-design-allows-second-sourcing-for-oslon-leds/


Here is a list of the most efficient royal blue's available apparently .


Top royal blue bins listed:
Luxeon ES M4R bin 55% 700mA 50c (63.6% 350mA 50c)
Cree XTE Q04 bin 50.5% 700mA 50c (60.7% 350mA 50c)
Oslon SSL 3U bin 44.5% 700mA 50c (52.6% 350mA 50c)
Cree XPE P01 bin 40% 700mA 50c (51.5% 350mA 50c)


And here are the latest Olson offerings at 150 degree angles which look to be pretty damn awesome as over saturation with the 80 degree beams has been experienced... I would rather it were spread over the surface to ensure a real even canopy of great PAR distribution .


Olson by Osram SSL 150
LCW CRDP.EC-KULQ-5R8T:
http://it.rs-online.com/web/p/led-visibili/7587759P/


LCW CRDP.EC-KTLP-5R8T ( 3000 K 80CRI ):
http://it.rs-online.com/web/p/led-visibili/7587740/


LCW CRDP.EC-KULQ-5O8Q:
http://it.rs-online.com/web/p/led-visibili/7650567/


LCW CQDP.CC-KPKR-5U8X (2700 K 95 CRI ):
http://it.rs-online.com/web/p/led-visibili/7781208/


LH CPDP-3T4T ( Hyper Red 660 nm ):


LB CPDP-GZHX- Group 4 or 5 (Blue 468-472nm or 472-476nm):
http://it.rs-online.com/web/p/led-visibili/7587696/


....


Drivers.

You can add a fast blow fuse or any fuse for that matter, in series on the LED string to help reduce some of the risk from driver malfunction. Years back I had a few drivers go bad but on the other hand it could have been caused by less than perfect connections somewhere in the LED string (back in the copper trace days).


When it comes to drivers I am mostly concerned with efficiency. A typical driver will be 75-80% efficient versus an advanced driver which can be 87-90%. That makes a huge difference when you scale it up. 90% really should be our goal as that is similar to HPS digital ballasts.


If you are dealing with a smaller build and you just want the best, check out the inventronics or hyperon. They claim 88% efficiency and dimmable can be handy in some cases. Meanwell drivers are well built but all that I have tested have been 80% efficient and with a poor power factor (.6).




Small build and the best use Inventronics or Hyperon:
Inventronics 700ma 42w Dimmable Driver:
https://reefledlights.com/shop/inventronics-700ma-dimmable-driver/


Cheapos with good power factor of .88-.91, Can load these drivers upto about 40vF with steady output. You can load up the strings to about 30watts but the output drops down to just over 600mA. That is perfect for vegging or if you are really trying to crank up the efficiency of your lamp by running soft.
http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004218/1320605-85-265v-20w-high-power-constant-current-led-driver


Another of my favorite drivers is this eBay deal. You can load these drivers up to about 40vF and their output will remain steady. They range from 680mA-740mA) They are only 80% efficient but they do have a very healthy power factor (.9) which is helpful if you get a power outage and want to use your LEDs on a battery/inverter backup system.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-Driver-Constant-Current-700-ma-24-0-watt-120-vac-137x42x29-mm-/260962277491?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc2905873

Click to expand...

Arrays.


SupraSPL Veg array:

"Here is what I use for veg:


3 reds (Cree XPE red P3 bin)
4 deep reds (Luxeon ES EX6 bin or Oslon SSL T3 bin)
2 deep blues (Luxeon ES 450nm M4R bin)
4 warm whites (Cree XTE 3000K R3 bin)


Those are all top bins that are available on stars depending on what country you are in. Check out ideal spectrum led for Oslon SSL 3T bin if you are in europe. The XTE warm white R3 and XPE red P3 are available from Cutter in AUS. The Luxeon ES deep blue M4R is available from steves leds for $3!


I drive them all at 700mA so you end up with 24 watts of dissipation. That ratio gives you 25% actual blue output. It may not be the perfect ratio (who knows) but it sure does work well and controls stretch. I don't recommend using any other wavelengths of blue because 440-450nm blues are so much more efficient than any other, especially when it come to the Luxeon ES deep blue, which outclasses them all and is very cheap. In other words, even if there is a better spectrum to be using, I don't recommend it because this one is so much more electrically efficient (~42% at 700mA).

Click to expand...

Guod:

cree XPG(2) for CW and WW, Osram for red, blue and WW.


we use the cree leds for the wider Beam angle, to get a better overall mix of the spectrum.


The Osram WW-Leds with the smaller beam angle are placed on the edge.
as they are on the red Channel, less Blue is here also a goody!

Click to expand...

-may 2013


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This is all I have... hopefully now I can finally start putting some orders together for the best there is . I have friends in AUS and US who could receive and send me parts if cheaper or better BIN chips are available. But I really just need pointing into the right direction some more . Hopefully I can become an LED convert.

Thanks for putting this together. Very interesting vid with the Nasa spectrum. I have heard that green penetrates the canopy better but I normally just lollipop them. In my experience too much white leads to leafy outdoor type buds. I very much prefer dense HPS type nugs.

Cheapest prices I have found for XML2:
XML2 T6 4500K
XML2 T5 4200K

Not cheap but this is the most efficient warm white so far (40.6% @ 700mA 50c)
XML2 T5 3000K

SupraSPL said:

In my experience too much white leads to leafy outdoor type buds. I very much prefer dense HPS type nugs.

Click to expand...

How much is too much white in your experience? What do you think for example of ideal spectrums CW:630:660 combination?

I tried cool white:630:660 for a few runs and ended up adding blue back in and reducing the white for that same reason (leafy buds). After seeing the results of the big HPS grows enough times I was convinced that we need a heavy weighting in red and deep red. Since our whites are the least efficient anyway it works out in our favor to use lots of reds. All that said I am open minded to all-white grows because I have never tried it and my experiments were back in the days of cool white.

Right guys, so I think i've compiled a list of a few hefty competitors now which i'll share below in hope that you can suggest what you would buy. I'm interested in the DIY modular design of guod's and wonder if the layout he suggests is one to go for? Anyway the contendors:

Cool Whites


Philips Luxeon
LXW8-PW50 Cool White 5000k * 4:
http://uk.farnell.com/lumileds/lxw8-pw50/rebel-es-white-5000k/dp/2062943RL
- £2.93 (£11.72)


Neutral Whites
XML2 T6 bin 4300K (43.2%)
XML2 T5 bin 4100K (40.1%)
XML2 T5 bin 3000K (40.6%)


CREE
XML2 T6 4500K
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10003889/1425000-cree-xm-l2-t6-4c-10w-1100lm-4200-4500k-neutral
XML2 T5 4200K
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10003889/1425003-cree-xm-l2-t5-5b1-10w-995lm-4000-4200k-neutral
XML2 T5 4000K
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10001903/1137105-cree-xm-l-t5-5c1-4000k-neutral-white-led-emitter
XP-G2
http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Cree+XPG-2


Osram SSL80
LCW.CQ7P.CC ( KQKS 5L7N )
4000 °K ,95 CRI






Warm Whites


Osram SSL80
LCW_CQ7P.CC ( JUKQ 5U8X )
( There's also a more powerful version : LCW_CR7P.CC )
2700°K , 95 CRI .


Osram SSL80
LCW.CR7P.EC (KTLP 5R8T )
3000 °K, 80-82 CRI


Osram SSL150
LCW CRDP.EC-KTLP-5R8T ( 3000 K 80CRI ):
http://it.rs-online.com/web/p/led-visibili/7587740/


Osram SSL150
OSLON SSL 150deg,White,3000K,104.2lm
http://it.rs-online.com/web/p/led-visibili/7587759P/


Osram SSL150
2700k CRI:95 typ
http://it.rs-online.com/web/p/led-visibili/7781208/


Cree XM-L2
XML2 T5 bin 3000K
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1580&cat=170


XP-G2
http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Cree+XPG-2


Philips Luxeon
LXM8-PW27 Warm White 2700k * 2:
http://uk.farnell.com/lumileds/lxm8-pw27/rebel-white-2700k/dp/2062937RL
- £1.84 (£3.6




Blue


Osram SSL150
LB CPDP-GZHX- Group 4 or 5 (Blue 468-472nm or 472-476nm):
http://it.rs-online.com/web/p/led-visibili/7587696/


Philips Luxeon
LMXL-PR01-0500 Royal Blue 440-460nm* 4:
http://uk.farnell.com/lumileds/lxml-pr01-0500/rebel-royal-blue-440nm-460nm/dp/2062929RL
- £3.52 (£14.0




Red


Osram SSL150
LH CPDP-3T4T ( Hyper Red 660 nm ):


LH CP7P-2T3T
660 nm Hyper Red
( 315-400 mW output light power at @350mA / 2.1 V ( 0.735 Watts ) !!!
355-450 mW output power for the 3T4T bins !!!
Probably the most powerful red led at 660 nm ....)


Philips Luxeon
LXM3-PD01-0350 Deep Red 650-670nm * 18:
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=2062933&CMP=KNC-GUK-FUK-GEN-SKU-MDC&mckv=sSGstoc76|pcrid|27272926208|kword|lxm3 pd01|match|p|plid
- £2.64 (£47.52)


Everlight Shuen LED's
ELSH-Q61F1-0LPNM-JF3F8 - Far Red 715-745nm * 2:
http://uk.farnell.com/everlight/elsh-q61f1-0lpnm-jf3f8/led-1w-far-red-125mw/dp/1859318
- £2.64 (£5.2

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Any advice appreciated on which are the best to go for in order to closest replicate a decent HPS spectrum but not forgetting some blue light for short internodal spacing to promote growth for a scrog. I would really like to design enough individual modular setups that worked (fine tuning a few of the edge led's for narrow angles) so that I could fill the entire canopy area (wardrobe width or other container) with the led's as close as possible to the screen as to not oversaturate the buds too badly. I really like intense HPS lighting and 600w in an aircooled reflector 6" away has seen wonderful results so hopefully someone with more knowledge can help with ratios of LED's to achieve such a spectrum. As for angles I am wondering if the 150 degree oslons by osram would be as good for producing heavy flowers as the ssl 80 hyper reds.

Here is the layout of the Rebel Modules from Grow Northern for the MS0004/0006 and Dutch Passion LED's:



I have a feeling they're weighted towards auto flowerer's as most diaries have been done with them.

I really like the layout of Guods panels though to like this:




Now what to go where and how to drive them . Do I go small angle or wide angle as above it says minimum distance of 10cm which is fair... And if I could make enough panels to cover the whole area at a 10cm distance... hmmm... how many could I fit in a 75*55cm area .

To collate a lil information i'm just adding this here:

When looking at the luxeons It appears they are around 1w each and spaced at around 1" or less spaced from each other, But they are ultra efficient, here is a pic of 2 white widows that Tang grew under 6 of those rebel modules I describe in an MS0006 using grow northerns designed drivers. Running at around 178w according to him. Heres the bud porn... I believe he achieved 252gram from this setup from 2 plants in a rather large area...



I really want to see a scrog with such panels, similar to how my HPS setup is... Because that much produce from 178w is disgusting . 1.4g per watt or so I do believe.
Keep in mind this was for autos and grown in soil semi conventionally... I want to see hydro scrogness .

LIGHT HEIGHTS FOR MS004 and MS006.

Seedling to day 7 - 30 inches.

Day 7 to start of stretch - 24 inches.

Stretch phase - 18 inches.

Flower phase - 18 to 12 inches
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Anyway also

I decided to use buildmyled.com's rough tool to give a rough idea to what the spectral output of a few setups have been:
Rebel Luxeon Module from GN - Extra hit in the far red... not sure what to think about those... perhaps necessary...

A default looking Markaber layout (Looking like a more pleasing light to the eye with much more white in there to produce a more natural looking feel perhaps?) The blue/red ratio is more balanced so possibly better for mixed use? We also see a bump in greens and yellows here we see the peaks for the reds starting earlier and finishing later (minus no far reds)

Supra SPL's current veg array layout (here we see a bump again in the blue to red ratio but also some far reds thrown in to the equation:
3 reds (Cree XPE red P3 bin)
4 deep reds (Luxeon ES EX6 bin or Oslon SSL T3 bin)
2 deep blues (Luxeon ES 450nm M4R bin)
4 warm whites (Cree XTE 3000K R3 bin):



This information is in no means solid but it gives a little visual representation! I hear some people say the sweet spot for buds is 635nm or so and others the 660nm are the most important... any low down on reds perhaps anybody? .


Still undecided on what LED's to purchase just yet and how to drive them most efficiently... as for mounting, i'll think about that afterwards... whether to get star mounted ones or not... hmmm perhaps... Maybe a copper bucket with double sided adhesive copper tape? lol.

Where shall I spend my money first guys?

I'm starting to think the 150 degree lenses may not be great, the luxeon modules are ran with secondary optics on the led's on 77 degrees... 150 degrees is just damn wide. I mean if trying to cover huge areas with the light raised higher perhaps... but having as many led's as possible and aiming for a close canopy distance... hmmm.

So I've compiled a rough effiency table including information gathered from all sources i've been learning from dashed about the place... hats off to supraspl, guod, stardustsailor and the rest. I'm not sure of the efficiency of some of the luxeons or the oslons and many of the warm/neutral whites so if you wish to quote me and correct anything I got wrong it'd be a big help.

I think with this I can now start delving into the data sheets on each LED's to see what kind of a spectrum I will build... is there a site somewhere which may allow me to see? I think there may be and its Japanese... i'll see if I can find it... anyway here is the lot.

Efficiency listing - rough!


Blues - aim for less blue around edges and use narrow angle warmwhites here (less blue is good here).
The Luxeon ES deep blue M4R is available from steves leds for $3!




Luxeon ES 450nm Royal Blue M4R bin 55% efficient 700mA 50c (63.6% 350mA 50c)
http://shop.stevesleds.com/Philips-Luxeon-ES-ROYAL-BLUE-3-Watt-LEDs-Luxeon-ES-Royal-Blue.htm


Luxeon ES Royal Blue MR3/4 55% efficient
XT-E Q04 deep blue from LEDGroupbuy 50% efficient
XT-E Q4 royal blue 450nm




Deep Reds


LH CP7P-2T3T
660 nm Hyper Red
( 315-400 mW output light power at @350mA / 2.1 V ( 0.735 Watts ) !!!
355-450 mW output power for the 3T4T bins !!!
Probably the most powerful red led at 660 nm ....)
Ok...Ok...I know ....
Stop doing that ,now ...
Yeah,yeah ...
Guod was right ...
You need these leds for (massive ) flowering ...
But ...
Take care now ..
They are really powerful ...
They should be used with caution ...
And better at 150° emission angles ...
( They easily oversaturate the photosystems ...
You can notice that easily from the leaf angle ...
Top leaves ,underneath these leds ,after 4-5 hours of illumination ,
start to erect ...( Protect the photosynthetic mechanisms ) ...
Main root length could be an issue ,with these reds ...
Anyway ...
I LOVE THESE REDS !!
They produce bud .
There..
I said it ...
-Deep /hyper reds around 640-660 nm is a must !
Forget the massive dense buds, without them ..
-Reds 620-640 ,can be used I guess ....Some ..




Ideal spectrum for oslons if in europe?


The Oslon Hyper red 4T bin is the top bin (4T) Oslon LH CP7P-3T4T-1 (46%)


Oslon Hyper red 3T bin (700mA) (41%)
OSLON SSSL80 Hyper Red 3T (Star 20mm OSLON red 660nm SSL80 3T bin):
http://ideal-spectrum-led.com/epages/box21231.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/box21231/Products/700[2]
SSL150 Hyper red 660nm :LH CPDP-3T4T ( Hyper Red 660 nm )


660nm deep red the Luxeon ES EX6 bin (38.5%) available from Steves LEDS EX6 bin.


Reds


Luxeon 625nm red broader spectrum than olson, olson broader at hyper red
The best 630nm red is the Cree XP-E2 P3 bin available from Cutter/LEDGroupBuy (42.2%) (only on quick connect star). Also available bare from mouser.
Oslon 630nm JU red is 32% (700mA 50c)



Warm White - The Osram WW-Leds with the smaller beam angle are placed on the edge.
as they are on the red Channel


Not cheap but this is the most efficient warm white so far (40.6% @ 700mA 50c)
XML2 T5 3000K
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1580&cat=170
Warm white XM-L2 T3 7C (WW)
The best XML2 warm white I know of is the 3000K T3 $6.40 from Mouser (bare).


Cree XM-L 3000K Warm White 220lm, 700ma, 2.9v:
http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cree-Inc/XMLBWT-00-0000-000HT30E7/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu4Prknbu83yyq8B/Da/kIgVKOKanl/JvU=


Slightly less efficient-Cree XT-E 3000K Warm White R3 Bin Up to 456 lm @ 5 W:
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1594&cat=176
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1596
-Cree XP-G: Up to 493 lm @ 4.9 W (only white)


Oslon SSL80


LCW.CR7P.EC (KTLP 5R8T / KULQ 5R8T )
3000 °K, 80-82 CRI
What I can say for that Warm White ?
Powerful ..
With a superb spectra ..
Most powerful Peak at ~ 600nm
~70% rel power at ~640 nm
~50% rel power at ~660 nm
Superb led ...
( Although flowers do take longer to mature / finish ,than the 2700 K , 95 CRI )
Photometrically it is rated at 97-121 lm @350 mA KTLP
& 104.2-130 lm @350 mA for the KULQ bins..
I should 've used this as a " base " illumination ...
I've seen good things happening underneath this type of leds ..
Both while vegging and flowering ....
Great led for " Solo " plant illumination ...
Power & light Quality ,together in a single package ....
( R : Street Light ..Once more from the 'streets' into the 'tent' ...
History repeats itself ....)
3000 K 80 CRI WW (generally ) ..
Maybe the best option for most ( current) WW of various led brands ...
A balance between Power & Spectral Quality ...
No so much phosphor load used as the previous WW 2700 K type ..
And not of so deep reds ..


"Choosing from the LEDs above you can build the most efficient growing lamp that has ever been built. If money is no object you can run the lamp soft (350-500mA) and yours will be more efficient than mine " - SupraSPL






Oslon
LCW_CQ7P.CC ( JUKQ 5U8X )
( There's also a more powerful version : LCW_CR7P.CC )
2700°K , 95 CRI .
A really warm white led ...
But ...Not efficient at all ..
( Those deep red / green phosphor ,'suck lots of juice ' )
And lots of NIR ....
I've 48 of them in a total of 108 leds ...
Well ...Mixed emotions here ...
While they do add mass to flowers ( really dense buds ,like the ones grown outdoors )..
And aid 'maturing / finishing ' of plants ...
Having them while vegging ?
It sucks big time ....
Spindly stems,pronounced internodal elongation,small surface of leaf (reduced lamina ) ,not dense foliage ...
Still the buds ,are great ...
Nowdays ?
I would use way less pieces of these leds ..
8 to 12 max / ( for the same 108 leds fixture )
Lots of NIR ..
2700 K >90CRI WW leds are nice ...
Maybe even necessary ...
They provide all the Amber-Red-Deep Red range of wls ..
And plenty of NIR ....
But if one tries to get his main reds from these leds (like I did ) ,probably he is going to regret it ...
1) Efficiency goes for holidays ,with these leds ...
( Due to Nitride Deep red Phosphor ..And the Green one ... )
2) Way too much NIR ,if those leds are used in numbers ...Bad-Bad idea ...(Specially while vegging )
I trust by now ,that they make a "super-dooper-flower-producing & swelling-engine-combo" with the 660 Hyper Reds ...
But they should be used in small numbers ..
I think of them as "Flowering-Maturing Boosters "






Neutral Whites - ( Most Neutral Whites {70-80CRI} ,will cover the needs for blue wls ...)
XML2 T6 bin 4300K (43.2%)
XML2 T5 bin 4100K (40.1%)
XML2 T5 bin 3000K (40.6%)


Cheapest prices I have found for XML2:
XML2 T6 4500K
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10003889/1425000-cree-xm-l2-t6-4c-10w-1100lm-4200-4500k-neutral
XML2 T5 4200K
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10003889/1425003-cree-xm-l2-t5-5b1-10w-995lm-4000-4200k-neutral
XML2 T5 4000K
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1609/10001903/1137105-cree-xm-l-t5-5c1-4000k-neutral-white-led-emitter


Oslon SSL80
4000 °K ,95 CRI
( Photometrically rated at 76.3-97 lm @350mA KQKS
The 'Street' versions LCW.CR7P.CC 4000 K ( 5L7N) are rated at 89.2-112 lm @350mA KSKU
& 97-121 lm @350mA for the bin KTLP)
My impression is that this led is a 'hidden goldmine' ...
I've used only 12 pieces along with the previous 3000 K warms ,in the same pcbs ...
Vegging under them was wonderful...
A relatively powerful ( for the 95 CRI ) Neutral White led ....
Resembles a " RGB " led ...Three main peaks at ~438 nm (blue ) ~546 nm ( green ) & 630 nm (red ) ....
I've to do some more tests(=>miniature grows) with that one ...
Maybe there are better ( Quantity / quality of light output ) neutrals out there,from that one ...
But ,then again ,maybe they are not so many of them ..
I think there is something with that one ...
(The combo 4000K 95CRI + 3000K 80CRI seems to really rock the boat !!!! )
4000-5000 K CRI > 90 ....
It may seem weird ..
But that might be a good source of getting
all the three basic wl ' ranges'( Blue-Green-Red ) ,at approx same power levels ...
In one single package ...
With more output light power than warm whites ..(less phosphor load than WW leds )..
Those type of Neutral Whites of High CRI , probably need more in-deep search and experimentation with ..
Something is there ...
4000-5000 K ,70-80 CRI
Got to "Know" them ,from previous projects ....
Think Blue-Green ...
Simple enough ...
Those combined with reds ( 630/ 660 ) ,can grow fine plants..
(Another White-Red combo ,that works just fine !!! )
Those I think is the main types of phosphor conversion white leds that the amateur (and not only ) horticulturists (aka growers ) ,
can 'borrow' from the LED Human-Vision -oriented Industry ..


XM-L2 T6 3C (NW) 5000K The XM-L2 NW has less red in it that its predecessor.




Cool Whites


XM-L2 U2 cool white is available bare from illumination supply for $7.50. That is the most efficient LED that has ever hit the market (57% efficient at 700mA 50c).
XM-L2 U2 1C (CW) 6500K


Cree XM-L 6500K Cool White, 300lm, 700ma, 2.9v:
http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cree-Inc/XMLBWT-00-0000-0000U20E1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu4Prknbu83yyq8B/Da/kIgYwGxVopW6o4=


Cree XM-L Cool White 5000k 280lm, 700ma:
http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cree-Inc/XMLBWT-02-0000-000LT60E3/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu4Prknbu83yyq8B/Da/kIgyb63LC6Ibac=




Cree XPG2 R5 bin is available in cool white from fasttech for $3 mounted (47% efficient at 700mA 50c).


Philips Luxeon
LXW8-PW50 Cool White 5000k:
http://uk.farnell.com/lumileds/lxw8-pw50/rebel-es-white-5000k/dp/2062943RL

And here is Supra SPL's kind of equivalent spectral graph... somewhere between these images below...

The make up is as below:

SupraSPL said:

Figured it is about time to update the original thread. The total project will be 750 input watts. Actual LED dissipation will be about 600 watts. Total cost for materials was about $2500. The goal is to replace a pair of 600 HPS to reduce heat and increase yields a bit.

There is also 100 watts of LED for vegging. Surprisingly this is more than enough to veg for a 2400 watt flip flop HPS grow.

The heatsinks are from Heatsink USA and they are getting more expensive over time but still the cheapest I have found. I use passive cooling and shoot for a Tj of 50c so the heatsinks are huge (110cm2/watt). The drivers are from ebay and Fasttech, all 700mA. Leds were ordered from Cutter, Steve's LEDs, LEDgroupbuy, Fasttech and ISLED. Wiring, heatshrink tubing, slide connectors, fuses etc from Elecdirect.

This is the layout of one 50w module. Everything is running at ~700mA. Amazingly heatsink temp has been about 35c or less. Incoming air is 22C and canopy temp is 28C with a bare 600 HPS in the room.
(8 ) Cree XTE warm white R3 bin (32%)
(3) Luxeon ES deep blue M4R bin (55%)
(6) Cree XPE 630nm red P3 bin (42%)
(2) Luxeon ES deep red EX6 bin (38%)
(2) Luxeon ES deep red EX7 bin (38%)
(6) Oslon SSL deep red 3T bin (42%)

View attachment 2903195View attachment 2903214

The reds are all on the same string and the white/blue is on its own string. So there are (2) drivers for each module (24) drivers total.

This design is already almost outdated since the XML2 have come around but they are only slight improvements so I will probably complete the project as is for now.

Click to expand...

Check it out here.

Great start friend, you've been reading the right threads and looking at the right shops.

Regarding heatsinks:
Maybe use two or three small heatsinks, depending on how you want to spread your lighting & drivers over your grow. You could even put IEC male and female sockets on them to allow daisy chaining for an expandable modular design.

If you're wanting a tidy and flexible heatsink designed for specifically for LED then the MakersLED have been highly recommended by those who have used them.
http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/makersled-designer-heatsink-kit-professional-grade-anodized/

HeatsinkUSA has something similar http://www.heatsinkusa.com/8-460-led-t-slots/ No doubt there'll be something similar in Europe too.

I'm downunder and the US shipping for me was killer on the above choices, so I decided to go cheaper instead. For my micro grow I just searched Ebay for "aluminium heatsink" and choose something reasonable looking with free shipping for around $20USD. Took two weeks to arrive from Singapore and needed a fair bit of lapping on the bottom with 400->1200 grit to get it to an acceptable standard.

Dirt cheap though, and about a quarter the price of buying domestically, so it was a no brainer.

Cheers smokey the cat... and thanks because I had meant to of mentioned the makersled fitment here after seeing it last nightand screenshotting it on my phone... Damn I need to sleep soon almost light outside lol. Just reading through another Stardustsailor thread at the moment, time to roll another. .

All good buddy Love the research you're doing. You sure display a lot of reading - should have figured you'd have come across some good heatsinks already. Definitely interested in seeing what you end up with.

Todays reading:

Well i've been playing more with a spectrum tool (http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/) for specific chips and tried to build up a few of the designs on there to compare spectral output at a few levels... also gives us an idea of umols... not sure I got the right chips for the rebel luxeons GN use as the readings on that are ridiculous although spectrums appear very narrow.


I kept the area set at default 30cm and the angle of lenses at 77 degreesas are the optics for GN's panels... (Lisa 2 Secondary Optic from LEDiL (C12469-LISA2-R-PIN * 30 77 degrees 88% efficiency) * 30:
http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ledil/C12469_LISA2-R-PIN/?qs=/ha2pyFaduhNQ/PKzWi/Jy13uaWRLmQ1BhBSHeQWQ%2b8=)


So firstly lets look at the GN Luxeon modules, they are made up up of:





LXM3-PD01-0350 Deep Red 650-670nm * 18:
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=2062933&CMP=KNC-GUK-FUK-GEN-SKU-MDC&mckv=sSGstoc76|pcrid|27272926208|kword|lxm3 pd01|match|p|plid
- £2.64 (£47.52)


LMXL-PR01-0500 Royal Blue 440-460nm* 4:
http://uk.farnell.com/lumileds/lxml-pr01-0500/rebel-royal-blue-440nm-460nm/dp/2062929RL
- £3.52 (£14.0


LXM8-PW27 Warm White 2700k * 2:
http://uk.farnell.com/lumileds/lxm8-pw27/rebel-white-2700k/dp/2062937RL
- £1.84 (£3.6


LXW8-PW50 Cool White 5000k * 4:
http://uk.farnell.com/lumileds/lxw8-pw50/rebel-es-white-5000k/dp/2062943RL
- £2.93 (£11.72)


Everlight Shuen LED's
ELSH-Q61F1-0LPNM-JF3F8 - Far Red 715-745nm * 2:
http://uk.farnell.com/everlight/elsh-q61f1-0lpnm-jf3f8/led-1w-far-red-125mw/dp/1859318
- £2.64 (£5.2





So what can we see in the above image... The amount of umols it seems to deliver is ridiculous . As good as the sun could ever be for us i'm sure. We also see an apparent magic ratio of around 10% blue to red which is ideal in flower. However we see that the red spectrum starts very late when we compare it with Supra SPLs 50w flower array (Although I believe its suitable for both) and the blue spectrums are very narrow when we compare it to


SupraSPL's 50w flower array which IMO seems very balanced when we look at the nice curves around the blue and red areas... we also get some of the important green and yellow which help promote pigaments in the leaves in order to utilise our reds and blues better.





The makeup of this panel is:

The heatsinks are from Heatsink USA and they are getting more expensive over time but still the cheapest I have found. I use passive cooling and shoot for a Tj of 50c so the heatsinks are huge (110cm2/watt). The drivers are from ebay and Fasttech, all 700mA. Leds were ordered from Cutter, Steve's LEDs, LEDgroupbuy, Fasttech and ISLED. Wiring, heatshrink tubing, slide connectors, fuses etc from Elecdirect.


This is the layout of one 50w module. Everything is running at ~700mA. Amazingly heatsink temp has been about 35c or less. Incoming air is 22C and canopy temp is 28C with a bare 600 HPS in the room.
(8 ) Cree XTE warm white R3 bin (32%)
(3) Luxeon ES deep blue M4R bin (55%)
(6) Cree XPE 630nm red P3 bin (42%)
(2) Luxeon ES deep red EX6 bin (38%)
(2) Luxeon ES deep red EX7 bin (38%)
(6) Oslon SSL deep red 3T bin (42%)

Click to expand...

* LED List
Cree XLamp XT-E White 1W WarmWhite 2200-3700K XTEAWT 107lm ×8
Cree XLamp XP-E 1W Red 620-630nm XPERED 62lm ×6
OSRAM OSLON SSL 1W HyperRed 644-666nm LH CPDP 240mW ×6
Philips Lumileds Luxeon Rebel 3W RoyalBlue 440-460nm LXML-PR01 910mW ×3
Philips Lumileds Luxeon Rebel 3W DeepRed 650-670nm LXM3-PD01 720mW ×4
----------------------------------------
* Total Flux
Luminous Flux : 1638 lm
Radiant Flux : 11.87 W
PPFD (PAR) : 58.58 µmol s?¹
----------------------------------------
* Spec by 77? & 30cm
Illuminance : 9157 lx
PPFD (PAR) : 327.5 µmol m?² s?¹






-------------------------------------------------


Then a couple of the other designs (possibly more suited for veg or combo)


Firstly we have guod's Markaber layout, I kind of guessed on how to calculate it as the panel description I had for his latest idea in May (may be more since i'm sure) is as follows:





1.335 umols blue to 3.56 umols red, roughly a blue to red ratio of .375.


Guod:

cree XPG(2) for CW and WW, Osram for red, blue and WW.


we use the cree leds for the wider Beam angle, to get a better overall mix of the spectrum.


The Osram WW-Leds with the smaller beam angle are placed on the edge.
as they are on the red Channel, less Blue is here also a goody!

Click to expand...

So I doubled the number of lights to account for equal numbers of WW from Osram and Cree XPG. In practice i'm not exactly sure how it would be laid out but it would be a case of placing recommended chips where ever possible .


* LED List
Cree XLamp XP-E 1W CoolWhite 5000-10000K XPEWHT 122lm ×6
Cree XLamp XP-E 1W WarmWhite 2600-3700K XPEWHT 100lm ×3
OSRAM OSLON SSL 1W DeepBlue 449-461nm LD CP7P 450mW ×2
OSRAM OSLON SSL 1W Red 620-632nm LR CP7P 82lm ×6
OSRAM OSLON SSL 1W WarmWhite 3000K-4000K LCW CP7P 104.2lm ×3
----------------------------------------
* Total Flux
Luminous Flux : 1872 lm
Radiant Flux : 7.48 W
PPFD (PAR) : 35.63 µmol s?¹
----------------------------------------
* Spec by 77? & 30cm
Illuminance : 10462 lx
PPFD (PAR) : 199.1 µmol m?² s?¹





We can see a very large amount of umoles... a larger blue to red ratio than in the previous panels... but may still be suitable for flowering plants and the light is probably the closest to an efficient natural-ish looking light to work under with a magenta hue. The spread for this light is visible in the bump in green and yellow frequencies... Getting closer to what a normal hps may produce but maintaining efficiency of LED in providing blues and reds perhaps... a very nice design.


In comparison we have SupraSPLS current veg array setup:





I'm unsure on the layout of this panel but the makeup is as follows:

SupraSPL Veg array:


"Here is what I use for veg:


3 reds (Cree XPE red P3 bin)
4 deep reds (Luxeon ES EX6 bin or Oslon SSL T3 bin)
2 deep blues (Luxeon ES 450nm M4R bin)
4 warm whites (Cree XTE 3000K R3 bin)


Those are all top bins that are available on stars depending on what country you are in. Check out ideal spectrum led for Oslon SSL 3T bin if you are in europe. The XTE warm white R3 and XPE red P3 are available from Cutter in AUS. The Luxeon ES deep blue M4R is available from steves leds for $3!


I drive them all at 700mA so you end up with 24 watts of dissipation. That ratio gives you 25% actual blue output. It may not be the perfect ratio (who knows) but it sure does work well and controls stretch. I don't recommend using any other wavelengths of blue because 440-450nm blues are so much more efficient than any other, especially when it come to the Luxeon ES deep blue, which outclasses them all and is very cheap. In other words, even if there is a better spectrum to be using, I don't recommend it because this one is so much more electrically efficient (~42% at 700mA).

Click to expand...

* LED List
Cree XLamp XT-E White 1W WarmWhite 2200-3700K XTEAWT 107lm ×4
Cree XLamp XP-E 1W Red 620-630nm XPERED 62lm ×3
OSRAM OSLON SSL 1W HyperRed 644-666nm LH CPDP 240mW ×4
Philips Lumileds Luxeon Rebel 3W RoyalBlue 440-460nm LXML-PR01 910mW ×2
----------------------------------------
* Total Flux
Luminous Flux : 806.8 lm
Radiant Flux : 5.19 W
PPFD (PAR) : 24.35 µmol s?¹
----------------------------------------
* Spec by 77? & 30cm
Illuminance : 4510 lx
PPFD (PAR) : 136.1 µmol m?² s?¹


1.6375 umols blue to 2.62 umols red = roughly a blue to red ratio of .625.
Here we can see a bump in the blue to red ratio and the yellows to reds are much more progressive in upwards slope towards towards a fair amount of red. As far as vegging goes this could be a great setup!




Overall i'm still unsure where to go from here... but more info to process and consider... perhaps I will start now throwing in a few combinations into the tool at http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/ - you can change language to english at the very bottom left of the page via the drop down (or up I can't remember) tab. .


I'd like someones opinion on the Grow Northern Rebel Module setup and whether or not they are actually throwing out that many umols compared to the rest, I'm sure its not as it seems here and i've ballsed up totally (3w rebels instead of 1w?, but I tried to match parts of part numbers which I could see.)


And here is a soundtrack to read all this thread to .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pJAzqxZ-0U

So my first mockup regarding chips and a general rough overview from what my little diagrams tell me (again may be totally wrong ). Doesn't look like it'd going to be cheap either haha. I've tried to include the best of all worlds although to replicate some spectrums I've had to go for less efficient chips 2700k 95 cri for example.


For something like a 24*16" area with an led for every inch apart between this... somewhere around 22 in a row or so possibly offset rows. I'll have to try and put it down to a design of some sort to see if the light distribution would be equal. If there isn't oversaturationg going on from other spectrums here then I feel this could be a great flowering setup as we see it is almost 10% of the energy going into blues as the reds. We also have a nice amount of green and yellow. I've aimed for peak nm at around 630nm but also hitting deep reds and mixing up the red chips to get a broader spectrum.


For the graph I used this data:


20 cree xm-l2 cool white 6500k
88 oslon hyper red ssl80
20 Rebel ES M4R Bin Royal Blue Philips Lumileds Luxeon Rebel 3W RoyalBlue 440-460nm LXML-PR01 910mW
88 Philips Lumileds Luxeon Rebel 3W Red 630nm LXM2-PD01
88 Cree XLamp XP-E 1W Red 620-630nm XPERED 62lm
10 Philips Lumileds Luxeon Rebel 3W CRI95 2700K 2580-2870K LXW9-PW27 /Oslon 2700k CRI95


In reality some of the other highlighted choices below could be an option.




20 cree XM-L2 cool white 6500K - XM-L2 U2 cool white is available bare from illumination supply for $7.50. That is the most efficient LED that has ever hit the market (57% efficient at 700mA 50c).
88 oslon SSL80 hyper red 3t4t- Oslon Hyper red 4T bin is the top bin (4T) Oslon LH CP7P-3T4T-1 (46%) (possibly mix up with 150's? - Osram Olson SSL 150
LCW CRDP.EC-KULQ-5R8T:
http://it.rs-online.com/web/p/led-visibili/7587759P/)
20 Philips Rebel Luxeon ES M4R Bin Royal Blue -
88 Luxeon Rebel 630nm (Luxeon 625nm red broader spectrum than olson, olson broader at hyper red)
88 Cree XP-E2 630nm Red P3 Bin 42.2% - on stars from cutter/ledgroupbuy or bare from mouser.
10 Lumiled Luxeon Rebel /Oslon SSL80 2700k CRI95 -LCW_CQ7P.CC ( JUKQ 5U8X )
( There's also a more powerful version : LCW_CR7P.CC )
2700°K , 95 CRI / XML2 T5 3000K (40.6% @ 700mA 50c)
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail....ut1580&cat=170
/
Oslon SSL150 - LCW CQDP.CC-KPKR-5U8X (2700 K 95 CRI ):
http://it.rs-online.com/web/p/led-visibili/7781208/
/ or Cree XML2 T5 3000K (40.6% @ 700mA 50c)
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail....ut1580&cat=170 (to avoid NIR)




314 LED's possibly driven soft for efficiency?





Creation:
428nm peak blue 407-500nm curve - litle green and yellow
637nm peak red curve from 600-685nm


Total: 878.8/172.8 = 5.08 umols per watt
19.3425/172.8 = creation at peak blue umols per watt 0.1119
164.7/172.8 = creation at peak red umols per watt 0.9531




GN Rebel Luxeon:
450nm peak small 420-480nm curve,
red peak at 650nm 630-680nm curve.


Total:103.3 umols-1 / 20.09 = 5.1418 umols per watt
6.7/20.09 - luxeon at peak blue umols per watt 0.3335
42.96/20.09 - luxeon at peak red umols per watt 2.1383


SupraSPL 50w
Total: 58.5umol/11.87w = 4.9284 umol per watt
2.5/11.87 - SupraSPL50w at peak blue umols per watt 0.2106
9.94/11.87 - SupraSPL50w at peak red umols per watt 0.8377




What does everyone think?

And if we take away say the oslon red and philips lumileds we have a panel suitable for both modes of veg/flower running 174 leds less.



The spectrum then also looks very similar to Guod's markaber spectrum with slightly less green and yellows.

Although it may be beneficial to run ssl150's initially for a wider beam spread and then in later flower increase the reds further with the ssl80's...

The question is... can the LED's be arranged in a functional way!? Any help here would be appreciated now as I'm kind of at a standstill in my head .

24*16"


Ok so doing some math i've managed to get so many numbers of rows... unfortunately i'm not sure where i'm exactly going to put what wavelengths where but
here we go.


368 LED Panel


Intense grow area focusing strategy:


Aim for deep reds in center blues immediately surrounding in a square try to avoid blues at edge of panel.
Surround by 630nm reds until next focusing area. and throw in some cool whites evenly here.
Aim for warm white LED's evenly spaced apart and generally outward of the focusing area.
Osram WW leds smaller beam angle placed on edge


23 cree xm-l2 cool white 6500k
104 oslon hyper red ssl80
23 rebel es m4r bin royal blue lxml-pr01
104 Philips Lumileds Luxeon Rebel 3W Red 630nm LXM2-PD01
104 Cree XLamp XP-E 1W Red 620-630nm XPERED 62lm
10 Philips Lumileds Luxeon Rebel 3W CRI95 2700K 2580-2870K LXW9-PW27 /Oslon 2700k CRI95





Creation:
428nm peak blue 407-500nm curve - litle green and yellow
637nm peak red curve from 600-685nm


Total: 1030/202.3 = 5.09 umols per watt
creation at peak blue umols per watt 0.1129
creation at peak red umols per watt 0.9031141868512111




GN Rebel Luxeon:
450nm peak small 420-480nm curve,
red peak at 650nm 630-680nm curve.


Total:103.3 umols-1 / 20.09 = 5.1418 umols per watt
6.7/20.09 - luxeon at peak blue umols per watt 0.3335
42.96/20.09 - luxeon at peak red umols per watt 2.1383


SupraSPL 50w
Total: 58.5umol/11.87w = 4.9284 umol per watt
2.5/11.87 - SupraSPL50w at peak blue umols per watt 0.2106
9.94/11.87 - SupraSPL50w at peak red umols per watt 0.8377


Veg Spectrum (turn 2/3rds reds off):



Slightly less efficient than Guod's I think but for the potential I think its worth it.


And heres the proposed layout roughly an inch or so apart... hopefully its manageable... oh my god 368 LED's to consider. FFS. lol.

Arranged somewhat, not exactly sure on what reds to go where yet... hopefully they can be divided up more evenly than the 23 of each cool white and blues lol. I had to be creative in figuring out where to put them... out of balance ever so slightly but it will have to do.





Could I now kindly ask a cob manufacturer to build this into a chip please . Watercool it or something, I don't know... would be easier than me messing around further, lol. If only you could make it efficient!

Fantastic, great thread, thanks to everyone for their hard work.

Regarding large emitter numbers - have you considered cheating? A few places (steve's,is-led etc) do carry multiple emitter stars and boards. Steve will even custom mount luxeons in any 3-up config which could give you a lot of colour flexibility. And then there is always *cough cough* cob whites *cough cough*.

It would be cheating though.

How hard is it to do a one-off reflow job I wonder? At some point on a big build it might be worth finding out...

Hmmmm... in an effort to try and even things up (although I don't think I really have... )... I ended up copying almost identically the Grow Northern Luxeon layout for a 30 led modular setup...



I've ended up making a 30 LED panel but I think i'd have to copy the grow northern layout and fuck knows if it will even be as good as theres . I think they got things pretty much as good as they can be as they are... kind of making me second guess buying everything and trying to put it together for perhaps only a small bit of electrical efficiency. Going to keep it in mind while I price what it could be up.


I could technically fit about 20 (4 * 5) panels in the drobe like this... but that would be 600 leds . Perhaps I could try create a bootleg personal MS0006 replica and cut down to either 12 (2*6) or 6 (2*3) panels which would see me at sensible wattage again.


30 LED Module


2 cree cool white xm-l2
4 hyper red running (ssl150) in center and 6 cree 630nm around edges in triangle.
10 hyper red ssl80 around edges (flower additions)
6 cree xp-e red 630nm around edges in triangle.
4 Luxeon 630nm Red - in rectangle oblong vertically next to cree xp-e at edges. (flower additions)
2 Rebel ES M4R bin royal Blue
2 Warm white CRI95 2700k




30 leds during flower




16 leds during veg (cut luxeons and 10 hyper red ssl80's)




Animation of a presumed 4 * 5 panel running 600 leds... Possibilities of being able to do that are very very limited though due to cost!


- Don't suppose anyone wants to price up the LED's!? I'm feeling burnt out after these last few days.