Fems or Regs

http://www.gaia-health.com/news/2009-11-22/2009-11-22-02-heavy-metals-damage-dna-without-crossing-cell-membrane.shtml

http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/1/63.long

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/aess/2010/726946/ (heres a study about soil life)

http://journals.lww.com/epidem/Fulltext/2007/09001/Blood_Concentrations_of_Heavy_Metals_and_DNA.58.aspx

things from the earth, in large doeses do in fact have the power to damage dna. thats exactly what happens when radiation (from the earth) at high, man made synthetic levels (head ct scan) is performed, or when we spray silver onto a plants reproductive organs. it loosens the tighthly spun strand of coding.

bmeat said:

if you feel that way then correct by post with AT LEAST semi-construtive criticism

feminized seeds are unantural. chemicals are unnatural. anything unnatural is 'bad'

how bad? who knows?

i dont believe im wrong

Click to expand...

you dont have to use chemicals to make fems.you can over flower a female until it herms natrually and use that pollen to pollinate a stable female.

Can you find a link that shows that colloidal silver changes the dna like you claim?
I couldn't find anything that suggests that the dna in the pollen created by stressing a female cannabis plant is changed.

Until you can show that, shut the fuck up.

The reason people think that feminized seeds make hermaphrodites that that some people are shitty growers.
Shitty growers stress plants.
Stressed plants give off pollen.
Shitty growers like to blame anything but themselves.
Shitty growers get online and whine about getting "hermies" from their expensive feminized seeds.
People read advice from shitty growers and believe it to be true.
Why would anyone listen to a shitty grower?


There is absolutely no evidence that feminized seeds create hermaphrodites.
If a plant has the tendency to produce male flowers when it is stressed, that trait can be passed on to its offspring.
That is true for regular or feminized seeds.

If any of this garbage was true, why have I not seen one hermaphrodite out of the feminized seeds I produced using colloidal silver?
Why is it that so many people have great success with feminized seeds?

I have made thousands of fem seeds. They look just like their parents (who are often from the same mother plant, oh horror).
Where are the mutants? Where are the hermaphrodites?

Am I some sort of special genius?
Are my friends who have grown out my fem seeds special too?
(No way, some of my friends are not very bright, bless their hearts)

Why haven't I gotten one hermaphrodite from all the feminized seeds I ordered?

Maybe I am Jesus.
The streets will run red with the blood of the non-believers.

bmeat said:

for example "The plant Hieracium umbellatum is found growing in two different habitats in Sweden. One habitat is rocky, sea-side cliffs, where the plants are bushy with broad leaves and expanded inflorescences; the other is among sand dunes where the plants grow prostrate with narrow leaves and compact inflorescences. These habitats alternate along the coast of Sweden and the habitat that the seeds of Hieracium umbellatum land in, determine the phenotype that grows.[SUP][6][/SUP]"

youre not incoporating anything that has to do with phenotype. youre literally experssing the genotype probability

sativa and indica are examples of phenotypes. sativa grew by the black sea, where it was hot, and indica landed and thrived where its a bit cooler, the middle east, and therefore the same species changed expressed different phenotypes.

i think muscle training may actually alter phenotype probability for soft tissues

Click to expand...

Your missing the point, the genes did not change they have been expressed differently due to environment.

If I start an exercise regiment and build 25lbs of solid muscle do you think I will have muscular offspring? do you think I have altered the DNA I will pass on to my offspring?

bmeat said:

"Phenotypic variation (due to underlying heritable genetic variation) is a fundamental prerequisite for evolution by natural selection. It is the living organism as a whole that contributes (or not) to the next generation, so natural selection affects the genetic structure of a population indirectly via the contribution of phenotypes. Without phenotypic variation, there would be no evolution by natural selection.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
The interaction between genotype and phenotype has often been conceptualized by the following relationship:
genotype (G) + environment (E) → phenotype (P)A more nuanced version of the relationship is:
genotype (G) + environment (E) + genotype & environment interactions (GE) → phenotype (P)"

heavy metal poisoning does in fact mutate and alter plants for generations to come

Click to expand...

Your absolutely correct here with the environment + genotype, but the genes DO NOT CHANGE.

As your above example states the plant (Hieracium umbellatum) grows in two different enviornments, the genes are the same and the environment determines how it reacts, again same genes different outward expression.

The silver ions in colloidal silver act as an ethylene inhibitor/antagonist which forces female plants to produce male flowers that have pollen that has only female chromosomes.

Genetics said:

Treatments which reduce the ethylene level in the tissues or antagonize the action of ethylene (CO2) cause the formation of male or bisexual flowers in place of female ones (Byers et al. 1972)

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Again there is no genetic mutation or manipulation, reduction of ethylene cause male flowers instead of female

Just because a dioecious plant has both sets of flowers (male/female) does not mean the genes have changed, maybe we have subdioecious species within the cannabis world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_sexuality said:

Dioecious. In dioecious species, each individual has reproductive units that are either merely male or merely female. That is, no individual plant of the population produces both microgametophytes (pollen) and megagametophytes (ovules).[SUP][5][/SUP] From Greek for "two households". [Individual plants are not called dioecious; they are either gynoecious (female plants) or androecious (male plants).]

• Androecious, plants producing male flowers only, produce pollen but no seeds, the male plants of a dioecious population.
• Gynoecious, plants producing female flowers only, produces seeds but no pollen, the female of a dioecious population. In some plant populations, all individuals are gynoecious with non sexual reproduction used to produce the next generation.

Subdioecious, a tendency in some dioecious populations to produce individuals that are not clearly male or female. The population produces normally male or female plants but some may be monoecious, hermaphroditic, or monoecious/hermaphroditic, with plants having perfect flowers, both male and female imperfect flowers, or some combination thereof, such as female and perfect flowers. Flowers may be in some state between purely male and female, with female flowers retaining non-functional male organs or vice versa. The condition is thought to represent a transition between hermaphroditism and dioecy.[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP]

• Gynomonoecious has both hermaphrodite and female units.
• Andromonoecious has both hermaphrodite and male units.
• Subandroecious has mostly male flowers, with a few female or hermaphrodite flowers.
• Subgynoecious has mostly female flowers, with a few male or hermaphrodite flowers.

Click to expand...

regards,

Maybe he'll give up now...probably not.

well have to agree to disagree. yes, if you put on muscle and keep it there, it will get passed down to your offspring (maybe in minute amounts, but it does, hence why i brought up the webbing between our fingers, the color of skin the shape of noses etc.) they will (have the potential) to become stronger than the generation before.


that is NATURAL selection. its natural and the best method ever invented, by the creator for a reason. and he made it to last long you must think sustaniability.

and yes the plants have changed. cannabis was one plant, and now it is two (well three if you include ruderalis, but i dont even know what the fuck that thing came from) and this is becuase of the enviornemnt. these enviornmental distrubances and stresser in fact DO get passed down through the genes, becuase they are slightly altered, naturally by the enviornment they are in. to say that they dont is saying evolution in itself doesnt exsist, and im sorry, but youre dead wrong

one day somebody moved those seeds, droped them, and they populated.

i have fucking ticks in nj. i hear not everyone has them, fucking tick, whatd you take here the shoelace express?

metals from the earth damage dna in doses higher than 'recommended'. that simple. you guys keep bringing up things that arent true

Its like debating with a brickwall...you can shout all you want but it'll still be their, have fun arguing with this one

bmeat said:

well have to agree to disagree.

Click to expand...

Who would you rather fight, a hundred duck sized horses or a horse sized duck?

bmeat said:

yes, if you put on muscle and keep it there, it will get passed down to your offspring (maybe in minute amounts, but it does, hence why i brought up the webbing between our fingers, the color of skin the shape of noses etc.) they will (have the potential) to become stronger than the generation before.

Click to expand...

I'm going to pierce my nose so my kids will be born with pierced noses.
My wife passed on breast implants, we do not want a boy born with tits.

bmeat said:

and yes the plants have changed. cannabis was one plant, and now it is two (well three if you include ruderalis, but i dont even know what the fuck that thing came from) and this is becuase of the enviornemnt. these enviornmental distrubances and stresser in fact DO get passed down through the genes,

Click to expand...

Some say cucumbers taste better pickled.

bmeat said:

becuase they are slightly altered, naturally by the enviornment they are in. to say that they dont is saying evolution in itself doesnt exsist, and im sorry, but youre dead wrong

Click to expand...

I crossed a chicken with a dog. Should I call it a Chog or a Dicken?

bmeat said:

metals from the earth damage dna in doses higher than 'recommended'. that simple. you guys keep bringing up things that arent true

Click to expand...

It has been a long day. It is probably time for your meds. Perhaps go upstairs and ask mom to prepare you a cup of hot cocoa. If you have been good, you can ask for some extra petite marshmallows.

night night!

you take my words at twist them.

you also are a moron.

educate yourself with some summarized, light literature. and please do remove me from your signature. you do understand that i meant if you train, your children will have better genes (the potential) to become stronger? who are we kidding, i know you understand this, but you are an arrogant prick who wants to fight for no reason.

DNA, Genes and Alleles

• DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid) is a strand of 23 pairs of chromosomes, with one chromosome in a pair coming from each parent. These 46 chromosomes contain hundreds of individual genes, which are sequences or combinations of information that transfer traits from parents to children.
  An allele is a variation in genetic information. You inherit two alleles for each gene. If your DNA has variations of alleles for eye color (or shape or size or anything else) this mean you have the genetic material for those eye colors.

Recessive Genes

• Recessive genes are those that can only be expressed when both parents provide the same trait. For example if one parent has red hair and the other blond, their children we will be born with blond hair, because red hair is a heterozygous trait (a pair of dominant and recessive genes). This means that a redhead likely had one blond parent and one dark brown/black haired parent, making the blond genetic information dominant. Homozygous traits are those that occur when two recessive genes of the same type are paired together, making them a dominant gene.
• Sponsored Links
  • Afforable qPCR InstrumentFor Personal And Field Applications Ask For A Demo Today!
    ThermoScientificBio.com
  
  
  

Dominant Genes

• Dominant genes are genetic traits from one copy of a gene (from only one parent) that will always express when present in a pair of genes.

Mutation

• Genetic mutation is a permanent change in the DNA sequence. Gene mutations can be inherited or acquired during a person's lifetime. Hereditary/germline mutations are passed from parent to child and are present in almost every cell. De novo mutations are those that occur in the sperm cell, egg or just after fertilization. Somatic/acquired mutations are those that occur in certain cells during the persons life and can be caused by environmental factors or when DNA replicates itself incorrectly (such as in some cancers).

Heredity and Evolution

• Heredity is how traits and characteristics are transferred from parent to offspring. Because DNA is at its core simply a resilient strand of chemical compounds, it can be affected by many things. Evolution has historically been the process of gradual genetic change, but in recent times genetic information is apparently being altered more rapidly by chemical damage. This appears to be causing damage to those with weaker immune systems by "turning on" recessive traits for certain illnesses and or disabilities. Some hypothesize that this may be one cause of autism and similar disorders with a genetic component.

Read more: How Are Traits Passed From One Generation to the Next? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6456536_traits-passed-one-generation-next_.html#ixzz2FSUkSh8J


PLEASE DO READ THE MUTATION AND EVOLUTION COLUMN. THE READ IS LIGHT, WELL SUITED FOR YOUR INTELLECTUAL CAPABILITY. when you finally understand how things work, start thinking for yourself. this doesnt even get into phenotypes and evolution, so i hope you can comprehend.

only then will you understand the effect that that letal dose of silver has on your plants. hell its probably a leathal enough dose for a human!

we have made heirlooms (tomatos) an asexual breed becuase of what weve done to them. this is good for its consumers, but not for the plants themselves!

at least we use silver, something from mother earth instead of a completly synthesized component.

"Somatic/acquired mutations are those that occur in certain cells during the persons life and can be caused by environmental factors or when DNA replicates itself incorrectly (such as in some cancers)."

this is what youre doing by poisioning the plant with heavy metals

I smoke males

i have a bagseed plant 4 weeks into flower that hermied on me thats in my oven right now getting ready to be mixed with butter and made into holliday cookes

my fem seeds have really done me well as far as potency, yeild and overall performance genetic wise.....

are we trying to prove something here? by Female seeds being a aboration of god (fuck i may have used the wrong words lol )

i thought we were just trying to grow good pot by cutting expenses down by not dumping $$ into medium to grow male plants......fuck was i wrong.....so im going to hell?


GODAMITWHATTHEFUCKING FUCKBALLSACKPRAYTOTHELORDBABYJESUS.....

bmeat said:

nevermind, you dont have to remove it. i see you didnt quote my full sentence, but luckily the creators of vbulletin forums made it so you cant quote me without having it link directly to the post, so you can read the full thought. this was probably a safe guard to protect individuals from people like you

"Somatic/acquired mutations are those that occur in certain cells during the persons life and can be caused by environmental factors or when DNA replicates itself incorrectly (such as in some cancers)."

this is what youre doing by poisioning the plant with heavy metals

Click to expand...

ok but poisoning the mother plant realy dosent have anything to do with the plant that the seed grows does it?

should we wash our seeds first?

bmeat said:

you take my words at twist them.

<snip a bunch of things bmeat does not understand>


PLEASE DO READ THE MUTATION AND EVOLUTION COLUMN. THE READ IS LIGHT, WELL SUITED FOR YOUR INTELLECTUAL CAPABILITY. when you finally understand how things work, start thinking for yourself. this doesnt even get into phenotypes and evolution, so i hope you can comprehend.

only then will you understand the effect that that letal dose of silver has on your plants. hell its probably a leathal enough dose for a human!

we have made heirlooms (tomatos) an asexual breed becuase of what weve done to them. this is good for its consumers, but not for the plants themselves!

at least we use silver, something from mother earth instead of a completly synthesized component.

Click to expand...

You really need to stop. You are so amazingly ignorant about biology and evolution it is stunning. I hope you are not the product of any school system anywhere near where I live.

First off, if you are trying to win an argument, try to spell correctly. Next, try to be right.

Colloidal silver is not a mutagen. EVEN IF it was, mutagenic agents do not modify DNA in specific ways. They induce random mutations. The action of colloidal silver is not due to any mutation having taken place. The DNA is unchanged. Period. This is a FACT, please move on from arguing this point, as entertaining as it is.

It is impossible for changes to an organism brought on by the environment to modify DNA to carry a predilection for said changes. Ie. muscle mass, injuries, etc. Over many thousands of generations, organisms acquire mutations which in some cases provide a benefit, and the gene spreads. If an environmental pressure is repeatedly applied to each generation (lets say, breaking a leg in the same way) if eventually a mutation occurs which makes the legs stronger, this will be a benefit and likely be passed on into the gene pool. Eventually, the ones who do not get their legs broken do much better than the ones who do. Which leads to a new gene existing in that population which provides protection from the thing that was breaking their legs.

Do you understand?

One of the most dangerous things in the world is somebody with just enough information to think they know what they are talking about, but not enough information to know that they do not understand. You do not understand even the most basic principles of biology.

I strongly suggest you get, read, and UNDERSTAND a basic text on biology. It will truly be a good thing for you, to get past this misinformation you have somehow assimilated.

Peace.

holy gosh darnit im confused...

all this lord talk i need to say me a prayer, thank the heavinly father for the billions of carconigens i inhale daily from motor veihicles and go to bed....


can i get a amen?

oh dam i missed that..yeah colidal silver really isnt a chemical its just like a silver coin...in water...ya know, more like a mineral ore an ore (har har pun intended)

I can see how the silver can cause dna mutations from the stress, environmental stressors do cause mutations. That doesn't mean that the random mutations will make the plant more likely to hermie. Cannabis plants have been stressed to fuck all for millennia due to all kinds of things. Hermies are just its response in order to propagate itself during rough times. The fem/reg plants might be different though, im not sure the biology of self fertilization compared to reg fertilization.

regs takes longer time, as you have to find a mother among the herd. Fems is abit like plug and play if you have the rigth genetics. Personally i favor regs, but time and money make me grow fems.. my 5 cent ^^

bmeat said:

you take my words at twist them.

you also are a moron.

Click to expand...

Let's think about this.

You claim that if a person lifts weights and keeps the muscles on, their offspring will have big muscles.
I'm the moron?

bmeat said:

educate yourself with some summarized, light literature. and please do remove me from your signature.

Click to expand...

You are just precious. I like my new signature quote. It is from a brilliant mind.

bmeat said:

you do understand that i meant if you train, your children will have better genes (the potential) to become stronger?

Click to expand...

bmeat said:

who are we kidding, i know you understand this, but you are an arrogant prick who wants to fight for no reason.

Click to expand...

You are really cute when you are stupid.

bmeat said:

DNA, Genes and Alleles

• DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid) is a strand of 23 pairs of chromosomes, with one chromosome in a pair coming from each parent. These 46 chromosomes contain hundreds of individual genes, which are sequences or combinations of information that transfer traits from parents to children.
  An allele is a variation in genetic information. You inherit two alleles for each gene. If your DNA has variations of alleles for eye color (or shape or size or anything else) this mean you have the genetic material for those eye colors.

Recessive Genes

• Recessive genes are those that can only be expressed when both parents provide the same trait. For example if one parent has red hair and the other blond, their children we will be born with blond hair, because red hair is a heterozygous trait (a pair of dominant and recessive genes). This means that a redhead likely had one blond parent and one dark brown/black haired parent, making the blond genetic information dominant. Homozygous traits are those that occur when two recessive genes of the same type are paired together, making them a dominant gene.
• Sponsored Links
  • Afforable qPCR InstrumentFor Personal And Field Applications Ask For A Demo Today!
    ThermoScientificBio.com
  
  
  

Dominant Genes

• Dominant genes are genetic traits from one copy of a gene (from only one parent) that will always express when present in a pair of genes.

Mutation

• Genetic mutation is a permanent change in the DNA sequence. Gene mutations can be inherited or acquired during a person's lifetime. Hereditary/germline mutations are passed from parent to child and are present in almost every cell. De novo mutations are those that occur in the sperm cell, egg or just after fertilization. Somatic/acquired mutations are those that occur in certain cells during the persons life and can be caused by environmental factors or when DNA replicates itself incorrectly (such as in some cancers).

Heredity and Evolution

• Heredity is how traits and characteristics are transferred from parent to offspring. Because DNA is at its core simply a resilient strand of chemical compounds, it can be affected by many things. Evolution has historically been the process of gradual genetic change, but in recent times genetic information is apparently being altered more rapidly by chemical damage. This appears to be causing damage to those with weaker immune systems by "turning on" recessive traits for certain illnesses and or disabilities. Some hypothesize that this may be one cause of autism and similar disorders with a genetic component.

Read more: How Are Traits Passed From One Generation to the Next? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6456536_traits-passed-one-generation-next_.html#ixzz2FSUkSh8J


PLEASE DO READ THE MUTATION AND EVOLUTION COLUMN. THE READ IS LIGHT, WELL SUITED FOR YOUR INTELLECTUAL CAPABILITY. when you finally understand how things work, start thinking for yourself. this doesnt even get into phenotypes and evolution, so i hope you can comprehend.

Click to expand...

Shouldn't you be working out so your kids will have big muscles?

bmeat said:

only then will you understand the effect that that letal dose of silver has on your plants.

Click to expand...

If it were a lethal dose, it would kill the plant.

bmeat said:

hell its probably a leathal enough dose for a human!

Click to expand...

People ingest colloidal silver all the time. I think you should ingest some bleach.

bmeat said:

at least we use silver, something from mother earth instead of a completly synthesized component.

Click to expand...

Could you show me how colloidal silver produces hermaphrodites?
Could you show me how colloidal silver changes the dna of the plant in a way that will affect the offspring?
How come I have never come across a mutant, a hermaphrodite or anything strange out of the hundreds of feminized seeds I have grown?

You have done nothing to prove your opinions about feminized seeds.

my bad grammer has nothing to do with this.

"MetalsMany metals, such as arsenic, chromium, cadmium, silver, nickel and their compounds may be mutagenic, they may however act via different mechanisms.[SUP][22][/SUP] Arsenic, chromium, iron, and nickel may be associated with the production of reactive oxygen species, and some of these may also alter the fidelity of DNA replication. Nickel may also be linked to DNA hypermethylation and histone deacetylation, while cadmium may inhibit DNA mismatch repair.



http://www.cannabisculture.com/node/394

"The idea of &#8220;feminized&#8221; seeds is heralded as a new wave of breeding enabling you to grow only females, but in reality it is a less reliable and less effective method than simply cloning your favorite plant. Feminizing seeds is nothing new; in fact, it&#8217;s done from a process that used to be called &#8220;hermaphroditic breeding&#8221; or &#8220;Breeding with Herman&#8221;."


"However, silver linings often have a cloud attached and it was true in this case. The female plants that developed from hermaphroditic seeds had the drawback of being far more likely than ordinary plants to develop male branches &#8211; turn &#8220;Herman&#8221; &#8211; when stressed. More than once, a power, pump or light failure caused enough stress to the plants that they easily went hermaphroditic. Outdoors we had even more trouble; in bad-weather years we could end up with a plant from a feminized seed developing male flowers and blowing pollen all over the other plants, ruining our dreams of a sinsemilla crop. We decided that feminized plants might have a place in our business&#8217; industry, but it wouldn&#8217;t be in our gardens."

"So, for the price of ten seeds you end up with dozens of pure female plants, instead of purchasing &#8220;feminized&#8221; seeds only to get an unstable and unpredictable hermaphroditic breed. You can use regular seeds to grow an all-female crop, and that&#8217;s
why we don&#8217;t sell feminized seeds." (

it is an unstable breed and i will stand by my word. the more and more i search, the more i find. i dont search bias things either, i search saftey of feminzed or benefits of feminzed or drawbacks of feminized.

and yeah, people use silver to kill warts and other nasty super viruss. IT DISRUPTS ITS DNA AND KILLS IT OFF.