DWC "FLUSHING" with...................... ?? - STELTHY

mike91sr said:

Question about this. Based on chemical/physical properties of osmosis/diffusion, the plant would sense the lower concentration of nutrients in their environment compared to roots. So it would either:
A. Take up extreme amounts of water in an attempt to dilute the higher concentrate of nutrients inside the plant
B. Expel nutrients into the medium to raise the concentration

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When I talk about nutrients stored in the plant I don't mean the root zone.
Nutrients are stored in the leaves (not in the buds as many people think).

Osmosis concerns the roots of the plant since only it takes effect when a cell is submerged in water and tries to level the solution ration between itself and the water, that is basically the process of osmosis.
Therefore a cannabis plant will not retrieve nutrients stored in the leaves and expel them into the medium (water, if we're talking hydro) to balance the solution in ratio to what was already being processed by the roots.

The cells in the roots (if submerged inwater) however will diffuse or take up more water based on the solute ratio.

There are 3 possible reactions:

If the medium is hypotonic — a dilute solution, with a higher water concentration than the cell — the cell will gain water through osmosis.
If the medium is isotonic — a solution with exactly the same water concentration as the cell — there will be no net movement of water across the cell membrane.
If the medium is hypertonic — a concentrated solution, with a lower water concentration than the cell — the cell will lose water by osmosis.

wow good thread. i personally do flush for a week with a flushing agent and RO water seems to bring the trichs out more. Unflushed does seem to taste harsh to me and not burn smooth also crackles and pops when you smoke it. I would say atleast a 3day flush min.

No nutes at the end is ok IMO the plant has plenty of stored nutes and as long as they are not yellowing and dieing then they are not starving.
Stress can also be good at the end to bring out the trichs in my opinion and thats why alot of people do the few days to a week of complete darkness to STRESS the plant into knowing its dieing so she gives you all she has. I also like the part where someone said they cut off the water pumps the last couple days and I also withdraw the water a 2-3 days before harvest

I only say this for DWC because in soil I do feel like flushing pretty much drowns your plants and if in SOIL to just back the nute off at the end.

And did I hear someone say that less nutes equals more yield or something like that? Not always true to much nutes at the wrong time can cause more harm but not less nutes the whole time. If you hit your plants with a shit ton on p&k at the right time you will get soda can flowers everywhere.

k0ijn said:

When I talk about nutrients stored in the plant I don't mean the root zone.
Nutrients are stored in the leaves (not in the buds as many people think).

Osmosis concerns the roots of the plant since only it takes effect when a cell is submerged in water and tries to level the solution ration between itself and the water, that is basically the process of osmosis.
Therefore a cannabis plant will not retrieve nutrients stored in the leaves and expel them into the medium (water, if we're talking hydro) to balance the solution in ratio to what was already being processed by the roots.

The cells in the roots (if submerged inwater) however will diffuse or take up more water based on the solute ratio.

There are 3 possible reactions:

If the medium is hypotonic — a dilute solution, with a higher water concentration than the cell — the cell will gain water through osmosis.
If the medium is isotonic — a solution with exactly the same water concentration as the cell — there will be no net movement of water across the cell membrane.
If the medium is hypertonic — a concentrated solution, with a lower water concentration than the cell — the cell will lose water by osmosis.

Click to expand...

It does seem my plants do drink 2x the amount of water during the flush though is this them looking for more nutes?... very interesting.. and soggy buds equal mold&rot hmmmmm

of course u want to flush some, i do a week, but 3 days of flushing in hydro should be fine, also a tip, turn the air supply off to the water for the last 3 days, will help with curing, sure someone will say im trippin, but its a fact

mr. green thumb 01 said:

No nutes at the end is ok IMO the plant has plenty of stored nutes and as long as they are not yellowing and dieing then they are not starving.
Stress can also be good at the end to bring out the trichs in my opinion and thats why alot of people do the few days to a week of complete darkness to STRESS the plant into knowing its dieing so she gives you all she has. I also like the part where someone said they cut off the water pumps the last couple days and I also withdraw the water a 2-3 days before harvest

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The plant stores nutrients in the leaves but that doesn't mean that removing nutrients (by flushing, which is in sense leeching and _not_ flushing, a common misunderstanding) will leave the plant with less 'food'.
You will stunt the plants exponential growth near the end of flowering by depriving it of nutrients, and what will happen is that the plant will start to eat itself to survive, contributing to slower growth.
It has never been proved that stress is good for plants, and the thing about "bringing out trichs" by stressing is pure conjecture.

Removing the source of energy from any living organism doesn't improve the organism, it slowly destroys and breaks it down.
That is basic biology.

mr. green thumb 01 said:

I only say this for DWC because in soil I do feel like flushing pretty much drowns your plants and if in SOIL to just back the nute off at the end.

And did I hear someone say that less nutes equals more yield or something like that? Not always true to much nutes at the wrong time can cause more harm but not less nutes the whole time. If you hit your plants with a shit ton on p&k at the right time you will get soda can flowers everywhere.

Click to expand...

Actually, leeching (what you are calling flushing) is more important for soil growers, since a buildup of minerals is inevitable.
Hydroponic grows don't have the same issues, since water is replaced and the buildup of minerals much easier to control.

Nutrient solutions in ratio to yield are important, but too high a concentration or too low a concentration are both harmful to plants.
You want the middle ground, the perfect ratio of a solution relative to how old the plant is.

mr. green thumb 01 said:

It does seem my plants do drink 2x the amount of water during the flush though is this them looking for more nutes?... very interesting.. and soggy buds equal mold&rot hmmmmm

Click to expand...

The cells submerged in water will gain water through osmosis when you leech, since the nutrient concentration outside of cells in the roots is diluted.
Therefore it might seem like the plant is drinking more water, in fact it's the cells in the roots which are affected by the hypotonic medium and therefore almost bursting themselves by taking up H2O.

vapedup said:

of course u want to flush some, i do a week, but 3 days of flushing in hydro should be fine, also a tip, turn the air supply off to the water for the last 3 days, will help with curing, sure someone will say im trippin, but its a fact

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That makes no sense at all.
Why would you remove the oxygen from the water? If you remove the oxygen from the water you are basically strangling the roots, killing the plant.

And in what way would that help with curing of all things?
Do you have any proof of this conjecture?

thank you koign I will give this a shot next tub. I appreciate the good info. Sounds like you know what your talking about...its worth a shot imo

So ripening is with in the plant its self and keeping nutes helps this happen faster? And flushing lengthens this process? I always though flushing helped to ripening the plant But then again I have always flushed-leeched or wutever for a short period at least 3days but I dunno just trying to get this all into stoner terms lol.

I will post my non flushing results or 1/4strenth nutes in a few wks thanks again.

mr. green thumb 01 said:

thank you koign I will give this a shot next tub. I appreciate the good info. Sounds like you know what your talking about...its worth a shot imo

So ripening is with in the plant its self and keeping nutes helps this happen faster? And flushing lengthens this process? I always though flushing helped to ripening the plant But then again I have always flushed-leeched or wutever for a short period at least 3days but I dunno just trying to get this all into stoner terms lol.

I will post my non flushing results or 1/4strenth nutes in a few wks thanks again.

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Yw

How a plant grows is very scientific and complicated, and yes it does take place within the plant, cells convert energy and minerals so the plant can grow.
What determines ripening though is a little bit more complicated, the amount of light and the period (length) of light the plant receives tells it to start producing flowers.
Depending on the strain, and the many variables (light, air, CO2, water, nutrient solution etc.) it takes anywhere from ~6 weeks to ~15 weeks of flowering before it's reach peak maturity.
Leeching plants take away their main source of 'food' if you will, you remove nutrients right at the most pivotal time in the flowering phase, this affects the plant.
Just like it would affect a human being if you took away food, your body would start to eat itself, the same is true for a plant.

There is no scientific proof of leeching improving the plants flower production, ripening or anything else.
Many people claim all sorts of improvements, like more trichomes, faster growth etc.
I have never seen one shred of proof of any of these claims.

What leeching is good for (and might I add, excellent for) is correcting errors.
Like an imbalanced nutrient concentration, medium with too high or too low pH, mineral buildup etc.

That is what experienced growers use leeching for.

I find this information very interesting, I have always been a 2 week plain ro water ph'd changed 2-3 times a week flusher. I have tried previously flushing in dwc for just 1 week, chaning water every 2 days and correcting ph and no flushing solutions. I was incredibly displeased with the final result to say the least, even with a 2 week slow drying process nd 1 month cure the smoke was harsh and just not that tasty (good genetics and grown with all the food love care ventilation lighting and attention)... Maybe going 2 full weeks might be two much, however im beggining to think 10 days is the best... About to harvest something that will have been with water for 1 week changed 2 and now final phase for the last week (first time it's tried, my pal insisted on it..) but will post results of this experiment. I have been very impressed so far with how much weight the buds still pack on without any nutes in the water, but weak branches make me realize the plant needs its nitrogen... I think 3 days is way too little! especially after my 1 week experiment.

Most flushing agents are simply glucose/sucrose and water, IE sugar water.

There are a few thoughts on flushing in DWC. Now unlike soil/coco/rockwool/etc
we use only water. (And maybe pebbles/rockwool blocks) Because of this our "medium"
is non accumulative. It only ever contains a constantly shifting nutrient concentration.

In soil/coco/rockwool drip every time you fertilize, nutrients accumulate in the soil/coco/rockwool.
If one doesn't account for this, unused elements can reach excessively high concentrations, which
will need to be flushed out of the medium to avoid continued uptake and a bad flavor.

If you don't run excessive ppms in DWC you shouldn't need to "flush" the plants.
If you are going to do it, I always run R/O water and DON'T pH. I don't pH it because I'm not trying
to have the plant take up MORE nutrients. I thought we were trying to FLUSH them out!? Water doesn't
need to be pHed if there's no nutrients in it. (IE R/O water)

What I would suggest: If you have been running HIGH PPMS (1500;1800+) then simply drop them back
and ease them off the sauce. Keep dropping your PPMs til they're at low levels FOR YOUR SYSTEM. Some systems
supply nutrients differently, and will already use lower PPMs (such as the undercurrent system). If ppms are that
low, you don't really need to flush. (Because DWC is not an "accumulative" medium/system)

Clearex is sometimes one such flushing agent. I've read the label at the shop where I used to sell it. It's just sugar water.
You can buy it if you want, but plain water is cheaper. But here's one parting thought: Is it worth running 1500+ ppms during flower,
worth 2 weeks, 10 days, 7 days of "starving" your plant? Maybe try a test this harvest.

**Cut a couple small sample colas before your flush. Flush everything else per usual. Compare the results.
I know everyone will argue that you always need to flush, but I'm more interested in finding the truth than just following others ideas.

LivingCanvas said:

Clearex is sometimes one such flushing agent. I've read the label at the shop where I used to sell it. It's just sugar water.
You can buy it if you want, but plain water is cheaper. But here's one parting thought: Is it worth running 1500+ ppms during flower,
worth 2 weeks, 10 days, 7 days of "starving" your plant? Maybe try a test this harvest.

**Cut a couple small sample colas before your flush. Flush everything else per usual. Compare the results.
I know everyone will argue that you always need to flush, but I'm more interested in finding the truth than just following others ideas.

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I have been told by a very experienced grower when giving plants very high doses of nutrients actually builds up a stock amongst roots and even in the plant itself (no idea how accurate this is, he did grow for longer than i had shaved and worked in an hydroponic pepper farm in holland). The reason why i think flushing agents can be good is to break up the salt build up in the tank more than flushing out anything, but i don't know. Well seems like it's not just drying and curing that appears to be an art... flushing too...

Good thread. Im glad you bumped it up klite.

I just dropped my units down the 1/4 strength to try this out.. What are your thoughts on the 2-3days of darkness theorem koji?

im on my 42 day of 12 12 an my buddy doesn't flush as well this is first dwc grow loving my out come so far to me it make since about not flushing an the drying an curing of the bud effects the taste with that said do you at least lower your nutes or run full strength the whole time?