(DWC) Amount of oxygen per 1litre of res solution

kaydeezee

kaydeezee

Well-Known Member
Setting up a hydro dwc system can be a steap learning experience for some growers 'expecially if it's your first time and you are growing a completely new strain with a new feeding feeding

I often wonder why all these dwc systems come with a small air pump and stones but almost always seems not adiquit enough for the system?

Example: 1x 20L dwc pot comes with a single outlet pump rated at 3.5/5 LPM
And works out to be 1/4 or the res size
But' every grower growing in dwc use pumps a lot bigger? Why? Is the little 1outlet pump not good enough?

I purchased a hailed v20 for my 70L max oxypot XL and attached 2x 4" ceramic airstones will this be enough?
 
yoshisisland

yoshisisland

Member
that should be enough if you put them on both sides of your bucket you just want air on all of the roots i believe (someone more experienced may say different)
 
kaydeezee

kaydeezee

Well-Known Member
yoshisisland said:
that should be enough if you put them on both sides of your bucket you just want air on all of the roots i believe (someone more experienced may say different)
Click to expand...
I've been reading conflicting posts on several sites ,from .5L of air per 1L / 1L of air per 1L of watet solution?

I'm slightly confused lol
I purchased the hailed v20 on the thinking that ' 1200LPH of oxygen would be more than enough for my (70L MAX) 2plant oxy xL unit?
It comes with 4 outlets and I hooked up 2x 4" ceramic airstoones with a max output of 20lpm each , so there running at 50%
I do have another 2x 4"ceramic airstoones with the plastic surround for directed air flow, could hook them all up and have them running at 25% of their max flow rate maybe to distribute air in 4 spots instead of 2?

I also made a seedling/veg dripper with a micro pump rated for 120/320lpm & 2x 360d dripper's. Thus will also help with oxidation of the solution water?

On stand by I have the hailea 's series 2 outlet that came with the unit rates at 5lpm & the hailea adjustable 2 outlet also, with a max output of 7.5lpm

Soni could hook all 3 up and have around 30lmp of oxygen in 8 spots in the rez but' I don't know if that will be to cramped for the roots?

Any suggestions are very welcome
 
Cold$moke

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
Adding disoveld oxygen to water is Easy...
Waterfall airstones and flooming are your best bets..


But getting dissolved oxygen to all parts of the root zone IS. The problem most systems have.


The reason bigger pumps are better is not so much that the little ones dont do enough
Its just the bigger ones send more powerful bubbles that can get deeper into the roots.

If you have good enough flow of nutrients THROUGH the roots a simple water fall can aerate it enough combined with temps no higher then 75 .

This is the problem with most water culture methods like dwc and rdwc.

Im on my 3rd rdwc design and it still could have some improvements.

Also as much as i love my rdwc set ups.

Im pulling one out after this run to do a side by side comparison of rdwc and table type set up

If the table setup comes within a zip or 2 to the rdwc i WILL BE. Switching :)
 
kaydeezee

kaydeezee

Well-Known Member
Cold$moke said:
Adding disoveld oxygen to water is Easy...
Waterfall airstones and flooming are your best bets..


But getting dissolved oxygen to all parts of the root zone IS. The problem most systems have.


The reason bigger pumps are better is not so much that the little ones dont do enough
Its just the bigger ones send more powerful bubbles that can get deeper into the roots.

If you have good enough flow of nutrients THROUGH the roots a simple water fall can aerate it enough combined with temps no higher then 75 .

This is the problem with most water culture methods like dwc and rdwc.

Im on my 3rd rdwc design and it still could have some improvements.

Also as much as i love my rdwc set ups.

Im pulling one out after this run to do a side by side comparison of rdwc and table type set up

If the table setup comes within a zip or 2 to the rdwc i WILL BE. Switching :)[/QUO
I've always been limited to how much space i have to grow , 8sqf is all I have so' it's challenging to build/create a system with all the spoil's,

I opted for the oxy XL because u wanted to grow 2 plants but feared that 2x 3gal/20L pots would be difficult to cool once flowering begun and the water level goes from 16/17 LItres to 10/12LItres?

Having a rez so big (70LMax) would help with temps in mid to late flower.
water levels depending on veg time & size of the plants when flowering starts but most lightly would end up around 30Litres?

I'm going to be using a 250w mh for veg & 250w has for flower with 2x mars300 for side lighting angled inwards like most growers tend to do when using simular light setup,
Total output for watts is around 500
Total lumen output is around 50'000 18" from canopy level so heat was a concern in this space, then I decided to bite the bullet so to speak lol and purchase the...

..hailea hc150a water chiller & a maxi jet 1000 I'm thinking this will also help with oxidising the res?

What chiller do you run for your rdwc system?
and what size airpump setup are you rocking?
Click to expand...
 
Cold$moke

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
No chiller :) but i live in a cold climate and i control my room temp .

But im riding the wire with watm temps and hydroguard.

Im using an alita 40 for an 8 site setup and its also pushing a couple single buckets .


I grew in a 5x5x5 box for years so i kinda get where you are coming from.

Heat will usually be what you battle in tents along with low humidty (which is kinda off set if you do dwc a little).


With a smaller area if i where still doing boxes

I would get your plants set up and then try and add panda film above your system so your not absorbing as much heat in the res.

Then get a good fan going if those lights arent air cooled.


This is a reason im going away from rdwc.

No more worry if a pump dies.
No chillers. No air pumps (which all create heat )

I love rdwc but its not the end all not for me at least im moving on if the next setup produces as well .
 
kaydeezee

kaydeezee

Well-Known Member
Cold$moke said:
No chiller :) but i live in a cold climate and i control my room temp .

But im riding the wire with watm temps and hydroguard.

Im using an alita 40 for an 8 site setup and its also pushing a couple single buckets .


I grew in a 5x5x5 box for years so i kinda get where you are coming from.

Heat will usually be what you battle in tents along with low humidty (which is kinda off set if you do dwc a little).


With a smaller area if i where still doing boxes

I would get your plants set up and then try and add panda film above your system so your not absorbing as much heat in the res.

Then get a good fan going if those lights arent air cooled.


This is a reason im going away from rdwc.

No more worry if a pump dies.
No chillers. No air pumps (which all create heat )

I love rdwc but its not the end all not for me at least im moving on if the next setup produces as well .
Click to expand...
 
kaydeezee

kaydeezee

Well-Known Member
Just germinated 2x Barney's farm blueberry OG's.... I didn't have any paper towels so I used the method i used the last couple of times.
First i rinsed out a wet wipe then soaked it in RO water with a little calmag ph down to 6.2 , then a little sprinkle of root inoculate (MYCOS)
20180219_185209.jpg

Soon as the beans pop ' I will transfer into root riot.

On its way in the post is.....

RAM Humidifyer
( DM )gold range one grow 5L
Canna start 1L
(H&G) drip clean 1L
(Advanced nutrients) sensi bloom a&b 5L
(Grotek) Monster bloom 0-50-30 500g
(Hailea) hc 150a water chiller
Maxijet( 1000) external pup

I went from growing in soil with a 2part feed & pkb first couple runs under a 600duel hps, simple setup cost around £200

Upgraded to coco/perlite 60/40 the next couple runs under a 400 hps & 2x mars300, but found heat and deficiency lowered my yield due to unbalanced experimentation with nutrients & addatives.

Now! I'm all in for dwc with a running cost so far of around £700

I'm going to be focusing mostly on just understanding my new system and "dialing in nutrient feeds and climate control,

I managed to pick up a STR veriac speed controller from flebay for £15 & also a inkbird controller for £25 to controll temps in my res (chiller&heater)

I should start a journal? But every time I start a journal I always get unexpected visits from people I defiantly don't want lol
 
kaydeezee

kaydeezee

Well-Known Member
I'm considering purchasing one of the HAILEA enviro ET40 air pump? It's virtually silent running at 40dB and would handle 4x 4" ceramic stones with a (max) flow rate of 10lpm per stone, so the stones will be running at 50% of there max flow rate?
Pricey bit of kit at £85 it would defiantly put the stop on panicking about o2 levels? Screenshot_2018-02-20-05-42-48.png

I read a grow journal that's posted on (GROWEEDEASY.com) 2x diy dwc 18gal tubs , blackjack & wonder woman
The grower only used a 2port airpump with 2x airstones producing less than 10lpm and the grow was perfect?

So' do we really need all this air in the nutrient tank?
I'm using a dwc tub almost the same size and going for double that at 20lmp and still feel it's not enough lol

Oh! I Do love growing my meds lol
 
Cold$moke

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
This ia not my post but something everyone has been asking about

Again not my post .

Here ya go. Just remember o2 is easy to add to water but getting it fhrough the roots is the deciding factor.

Low temps help but not a crazy amount as shown. But the lower temps do slow growth of nasty things


Again not my post copied off another forum thread.

The results are IN!

PH 6.2
PPM 820
Measured in mg/l

DO levels at 67F:
Air stones: 8.0
Ventruri: 8.0
Water fall: 8.1
Flooming: 7.9
CapnStyle: 8.1
All at the same time: 8.2

DO levels at 78F:
Air stones: 7.2
Ventruri: 7.2
Water fall: 7.3
Flooming: 7.1
CapnStyle: 7.3
All at the same time: 7.4

I also tried adding 5ml/gal of H2O2 at the request of sky in the warm water. This raised the DO to 7.6. Still, not even close to the DO levels in cooler water. 10 hours later I checked it again, and the DO was back down to 7.4 H2O2 is not a good solution.

My hopes are crushed. I was hoping there would be a technique that would compensate for high water temps. If you have warm water, can you add more air to compensate? Nope. Take a look at the numbers. No matter how much air you add, youcan't get DO levels past their saturation point.

It's all about temp. I don't care if you if you use 100 airstones or a hot tub venturi, water has a certainoxygen saturation point, at a certain temperature, and you can't get it any higher. All of the methods are acceptable methods. It is not possible tocompensate for higher temps, by putting in more air.
 
kaydeezee

kaydeezee

Well-Known Member
Cold$moke said:
This ia not my post but something everyone has been asking about

Again not my post .

Here ya go. Just remember o2 is easy to add to water but getting it fhrough the roots is the deciding factor.

Low temps help but not a crazy amount as shown. But the lower temps do slow growth of nasty things


Again not my post copied off another forum thread.

The results are IN!

PH 6.2
PPM 820
Measured in mg/l

DO levels at 67F:
Air stones: 8.0
Ventruri: 8.0
Water fall: 8.1
Flooming: 7.9
CapnStyle: 8.1
All at the same time: 8.2

DO levels at 78F:
Air stones: 7.2
Ventruri: 7.2
Water fall: 7.3
Flooming: 7.1
CapnStyle: 7.3
All at the same time: 7.4

I also tried adding 5ml/gal of H2O2 at the request of sky in the warm water. This raised the DO to 7.6. Still, not even close to the DO levels in cooler water. 10 hours later I checked it again, and the DO was back down to 7.4 H2O2 is not a good solution.

My hopes are crushed. I was hoping there would be a technique that would compensate for high water temps. If you have warm water, can you add more air to compensate? Nope. Take a look at the numbers. No matter how much air you add, youcan't get DO levels past their saturation point.

It's all about temp. I don't care if you if you use 100 airstones or a hot tub venturi, water has a certainoxygen saturation point, at a certain temperature, and you can't get it any higher. All of the methods are acceptable methods. It is not possible tocompensate for higher temps, by putting in more air.
Click to expand...

So, the colder I can keep my res the better basically yes?

I live in a very cold country with summer temp's hitting 90f on occasion but mostly around 75f during the summer weeks

The rest of the year it's a average of 60f so keeping things cool should be easier for me with a decent sized chiller.

So is this right, the colder the water less air in the water is needed and the Walmer the water more air is needed?

How do I measure the DO point?
 
Cold$moke

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
Not necessarily, i posted this to show no matter what you do you can only add so much DO .


The only thing you can do to increase it is lower temp so the water can physically hold more.


But you dont want to go to far below 65 or plant growth will slow.

Plant metabolism increases as the water temps come up in the 70s but past 72 degrees you allow for nasty things to breed and grow.

Ideal temps would be 68 to 70.
 
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