Drowning before harvest?

6 Leaf General

Well-Known Member
sup peeps..I'm very sure some of you may or may not have come across this topic..long story short..saw this thing about drowning your plant pre harvest to kick start the fermentation process (curing)...After reading about it on the other thread..its supposed to make 7 days in the jar taste like 30 and also make it that much better straight from drying.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-truth-about-flushing.409622/

this is the thread that mentions the process mentioned above along with the flush or dont flush info (plz dont discuss the flushing topic thing here) I just want to know about the drowning and can it work with the Hempy Buckets?
I was thinking to just plug the hole and fill that biatch up for the 5 days then put to dry. But needed to know if anyone does/have done this before thanks

(bucees and squidbilly get out here!)
 

WattSaver

Well-Known Member
This was a great thread at the time, it even led to another forum. I tried it twice (because I thought I screwed it up the 1st time) This is not a good idea, it completely changes the flavor structure, and really dulls the buzz. It may accelerate things but it seemed more like deterioration to me.

Just cut, trim, hang, dry, jar (at 62%) the longer the better. Drop to 56 to 58% smoke.
 

6 Leaf General

Well-Known Member
This was a great thread at the time, it even led to another forum. I tried it twice (because I thought I screwed it up the 1st time) This is not a good idea, it completely changes the flavor structure, and really dulls the buzz. It may accelerate things but it seemed more like deterioration to me.

Just cut, trim, hang, dry, jar (at 62%) the longer the better. Drop to 56 to 58% smoke.
Well..doesnt get any straighter than that..I will attempt this then on only 1 instead of all and compare..thank you my friend..just needed to see if it was even attempted since..saw nothing aboutt results only ONE from another noob like me
 

Squidbilly

Well-Known Member
This was a great thread at the time, it even led to another forum. I tried it twice (because I thought I screwed it up the 1st time) This is not a good idea, it completely changes the flavor structure, and really dulls the buzz. It may accelerate things but it seemed more like deterioration to me.

Just cut, trim, hang, dry, jar (at 62%) the longer the better. Drop to 56 to 58% smoke.
Yup, I agree.
 

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
Fermentation lmao

No definitely don't do that..just learn actual scientific facts about curing, so much cooler
 

6 Leaf General

Well-Known Member
I think he means it's funny because fermenting and curing are two completely different things
yea well...ill copy and paste this

"
Fermentation is strictly defined as any way of anaerobically degrade pyruvic acid and recycle NAD+ to keep glycolysis going. You can then categorize this process as lactic acid fermentation (where pyruvate accepts electrons from NADH directly and becomes lactate), alcoholic fermentation (where pyruvate is first decarboxylated to acetaldehyde which then accepts electrons from NADH to become ethanol) and others (which are much more obscure). So technically, human cells are able to carry out lactic acid fermentation. Liver cells also have the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase (responsible for ethanol formation in yeast and other fungi), but we use it in the reverse direction so to speak to get rid of any alcohol which we consume by converting it to pyruvate.
Plants however, can carry out alcoholic fermatation. They don't normally do it, because plants are usually in contact with oxygen. However, if you flood the root of a plant for about a week the cells are starved of oxygen, and because of this they will start carrying out alcoholic fermentation to survive. "

"
Harvesting, Drying and Curing, A Research Study
The first word we used for this research was Oxidation, the second word is Fermentation as the fermentation process is what makes "the cure" work so understanding the fermentation process is very important.

Here at RIU there is a thread that includes a cut and paste from a book by Mel and Ed you all know I like Mels book I am not gonna paste it here as it is fairly long and this will be long enough as it is, but this same info appears on most every MJ forum and seems to be the basis for how we all cure today. It seems from my research that this was originally based on how tobaco is cured and we will get into that later, here is the RIU link to this info I advise you go read it then come back,,,,,,,,

Harvesting Curing Drying - Take Back the Knowledge

There is an old hippie growers myth that says to soak the roots in water for 3 to 10 days before harvest this is not to be confused with the flush that everyone talks about (you all know I don't flush before harvest, I flush always) the tip/myth is supposed to improve the quality of our smoke. I have to admit that I never paid it much attention until now because I have now proven it is not a myth and has some scientific validation.

What it amounts to is a way to start the cure prior to harvest while the plant is still alive. This is an incredible find as far as I am concerned and I can not wait to try it. what it amounts to is starving the plant of oxygen by drowning it, if in hydro take away the bubbles or spray fill the tank with water and wait, if in a pot either continuously water it (keep it wet/soaked) or stick the pot in a bigger bucket of water.

I need to add some background info as I'm getting ahead of myself, most of you know that if you add sugar and yeast together it ferments into alcohol giving off CO2. The basic definition of Fermentation is the act of breaking down sugars into alcohol and our plants do this internally thru a natural process even while growing. The act of fermentation is a oxidation/reduction process (explained in prior post) just as most plant functions seem to be. Also please be aware that N is needed for proper fermintation to take place."

Just copying what I read..so I dont see why fermentation was funny
 

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
Yea...
keeping the plant moist enough to stay alive and still maintain gass transfer keeping stomatas open..through this natural process of hydrolysis and respiration the components are broken down and becomes smooth..this process is known as the cure.
We do this with many crops, sweet potatoes tobacco etc etc

Night and day difference in curing ..
Reduction in Chlorophyll content, doesn't taste like smoking veggies
Reduction in plant starch content,and sugars, creating a smooth smoke that will just expand nicely in your lungs, won't even feel it go down
Reduction in nitrate levels,less carcinogenic, always good right and cleaner high/taste
polycyclic aromatization and oxidation of terpenoids altering the flavor profile more robust with a lower ppm sensory threshold , less perfumey even soapy or "green" from corresponding aldehydes and ketones
Reduction of and consistent moisture content, even slow burn and no smoldering or black ash unwilling to burn

mold of any type won't typically grow under 60% humidity(what we cure at). I keep my area about 40-50 during the dry. you want it as moist as
possible basically but still
allow gas transfer, meaning jarring to slow the dry isn't beneficial. And jarring too wet typically causes tea smelling buds from it breaking down without offgassing

I dry at or under 70° below low 60°s enzyme activity etc is slowed too much and the plant doesn't break down fast enough. over about 77-80 and lighter flavorful compounds are lost. if kept moist higher temps wil increase bacteria and decomposition, will yellow the bud..like tobacco or brick weed. unlike tobacco thc is not a nitrate and fairly volatile ..

we cure around 60 because when the plant is drying and water is evaporating, right next to the leaves and inside the bud is a very high rh..some circulate air during the dry with an oscillating fan..
once the buds have basically stabilized the humidity can be bumped to around 60 to keep the plant curing.




None of this works anaerobically, and we aren't fermenting or creating alcohol in the plant
 
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qwizoking

Well-Known Member
That fermentation thing doesn't even make sense. How is that even supposed to correlate to weed? I never understand why people post that all the time.
Like flushing weed, spread nonsense that keeps spreading through noobs
 

6 Leaf General

Well-Known Member
That fermentation thing doesn't even make sense. How is that even supposed to correlate to weed? I never understand why people post that all the time.
Like flushing weed, spread nonsense that keeps spreading through noobs
SO....im just going to assume you have never in your life heard the word fermenting next to the word cannabis? Posting a cure method shows me nothing..is curing and fermenting not very similar even if they are not/maybe identical processes?

FERMENTING TOBACCO

Fermenting also called sweating, This is the process by which ammonia is released from the leaf to make it sociable. It can be done by heaping the tobacco into large piles called pylons that raise the temperature and humidity or by use of a kiln with a heater and humidifier. Under the raised temperature and humidity enzymes in the leaf cause it to ferment. It is not necessary to spray a fermenting solution on the leaf as some suggest the enzymes will do it naturally. Sometimes this is also referred to as curing.
This system of maturing leaf came from the days when tobacco was shipped by sail. The ship would sit in port for a few weeks, very humid and bails stacked tight together. When the tobacco reached it's destination it was found to smell and taste sweeter. You could use the curing chamber for this job after the initial curing, cut back the heat and humidity and close off the flu but keep the small fan running.

Fermenting: There are two methods of fermenting, stacking and kiln fermenting.

The stacking method is used by large growers, stacks of tobacco weighing around 100 lbs are wrapped in burlap and allowed to "sweat" the internal temp is closely monitored and when it reaches 140 degrees the stack is broken down to release tar, ammonia, and nicotine, the stack is torn down and rebuilt several times until the temp will no longer reach 110 degrees, the stems are stripped and stacked in a cooler place (65 degrees to age for a time 6 weeks to 6 years).

Kiln fermenting is what the smaller grower must use if he or she wants to smoke any time soon, the kiln is a small-insulated container with an artificial heat source that helps to simulate the fermentation, the leaves are placed in the kiln with the lid shut heat and humidity are carefully controlled (temp 100 to 130 degrees and 65 to 70% humidity) the kiln is left on 24 hours a day, kiln fermenting lasts about 4 to 6 weeks, the relative humidity must be carefully maintained during this time, a short aging period will follow of 4 to 6 weeks or longer until the leaves can either be rolled into cigars or cut for cigarette pipe or chewing tobacco.

Remember aging will always improve a tobacco, and any tobacco leaves can be kiln cured if it has been properly stored (humidity no lower than 50% to 65%). Smoking uncured tobacco is unpleasant and dangerous as the nicotine and ammonia contained can be fatally high, not to mention it will taste like your smoking leaves from your front yard.


now for the MARIJUANA

Fermentation

When vegetation dries, the individual cells which maintained life processes die. But marijuana can still be conditioned by means of fermentation. Fermentation is the process in which microbes and plant enzymes break down complex chemicals into simpler ones, mainly starch and sugars into alcohol and simple acids. In the process chlorophyll is destroyed, giving the material a more ripened appearance. If the fermentation is stopped early, the marijuana has a sweeter taste because of the sugars which the ferment produced.



Fermentation occurs when the moisture content of the marijuana is raised above 15 percent and the temperature is above 60 degrees. The more tightly packed the material, that faster the ferment proceeds. The rate of ferment is controlled primarily by varying the moisture content, but each batch proceeds at its own rate because of differences between plants in nitrogen content. (Nitrogen is necessary to maintain fermenting bacteria.) The process is delicate; should the ferment proceed too rapidly, the marijuana may be converted to compost. Watch the fermentation closely. After the desired colour or flavour (from a dried sample) is reached, dry the grass quickly to stop the process.



During fermentation, flavourings can be added to give the marijuana a spicy aroma. Such spices as cinnamon, cloves, ginger, mace, sage, or vanilla are placed between the fermenting material. Orange, lemon, or lime peels are also used. About half an ounce of spice or four ounces of peel are used for each cubic foot of material to be fermented. The spices are wrapped in cloth sachets. The citrus peels are strung. They can be placed between the layers of marijuana.



There are two types of fermentations: self-generating and forced. They are best used with leaves or immature plants.



Self-Generating Fermentation



Self-generating fermentation proceeds rapidly only when there is enough material to make a heap at least one cubic yard large. When smaller quantities are used, too much of the heat generated by the bacteria is dissipated, so that the process is slow and is more properly considered aging.



Place the material in a large container or in a pile with a tarpaulin placed over it, and lightly spray it with a mister if it is dry. Let the pile heat up for a few days, and then break it down. If it is repacked, the marijuana will develop a dull matte appearance and lose its sugars. IF the process is allowed to proceed even further, the marijuana will disintegrate.



Forced Fermentation



Forced fermentation can be used with small quantities of material. It requires an enclose chamber in which heat and humidity can be regulated.



Pack the marijuana loosely in a kiln or other chamber, and raise the temperature to 135 degrees. Maintain humidity at 75 percent. Check the progress of the ferment periodically. Within a week the ferment should be completed. During this ferment there is a release of ammonia compounds, resulting in some foul odours, but upon completion of the ferment and drying, the marijuana should smoke sweet and mellow.

^^^^^^^yes all copy and paste btw


Anyway dude like I said do some research yourself if you've never heard weed fermented..true or not..the word is out there and used just as widely or frequent as curing in ALL MJ FORUMS..when you burp jars are you not letting the gasses escape? how is the gas escaping? is that not a process/part of fermentation?? correct me if im wrong and I just might be but...sounds like the fermenting/curing works hand in hand then maybe huh?


http://www.sky.org/data/grow/c21.html

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=247378

more links of the subject at hand

and to end this properly..I am in no way conversing with you in any negative manner..I see this as just some chit chat so no need for us to "Argue" per say...one love brotherbongsmilie
 

6 Leaf General

Well-Known Member
Furthermore..I dont even know why i got into this with you...Im one for certain can care less about the "scientific breakdown" or terminology behind any of that bs...Im just always on the hunt to make the high grade higher..BOOM...
but honestly tho I did start this post to find out if anyone did/was successful with the drowning of roots method before harvest..thats all
 

WattSaver

Well-Known Member
So 6 Leaf Gen I see you've done alot of study into fermenting weed, as was the point Rm3 was preaching. But are you really gonna try this??
 

6 Leaf General

Well-Known Member
So 6 Leaf Gen I see you've done alot of study into fermenting weed, as was the point Rm3 was preaching. But are you really gonna try this??
Nah...your reply from the jump was enough for me..i was just casting a line out there to see if people were actually doing this or not..and especially hempy style..no biggie
I was just interested in the information as im sure lots of people were...sure enough im a fairly new member so the thread was new TO ME being posted years ago and all..but it had my interest like I said
 
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