1. We are currently experiencing issues with viewing and uploading images, our team is working on the issue.
    Dismiss Notice

Dr. Who's challenge run

Discussion in 'Grow Journals' started by Dr. Who, Aug 3, 2017.

  1.  
    OldMedUser

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    Nice stuff Dr. Who! That Fruity Pebbles has me drooling even more than the rest. clap.gif

    I'm so far behind on everything but recently had a serious health problem fixed that I didn't even know I had. I thought I was gluten or lactose intolerant as I've had trouble with my guts the last 3 years. Turns out it was an appendix that tried to blow back then but blew a little hole near the base and has been leaking poison into my belly the whole time. Almost lost a big chunk of my colon but the operation went great and all is well now. My constant fatigue was my body using a lot of resources to fight an ongoing infection. Doc said I must have a hell of an immune system not to have got peritonitis in all that time. Day after I get home from that, yesterday, I'm off in an ambulance again for a damned kidney stone that formed from the severe dehydration I was undergoing. Showed up in the CAT scan that caught the appendix problem but was non-obstructive so they never told me or I would have known what was going on and toughed it out another 20 min at home. After abdominal surgery I wasn't taking no chances with incredible pain like that. Never again I hope.

    Already feeling like a champ again and eating like a horse to get back the 12 lbs or so I lost. Down to 129 at my last weigh in.

    Sorry to jack your thread but just happy as hell to be alive and relatively pain-free. happydance.gif

    :peace:
     
  2.  
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    Wonderful news!
     
    OldMedUser and Dr. Who like this.
  3.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member


    Hmm, for synthetic growers. 2 parts... Learn to dial in your strains for how they best react to the nutrient you use. Next: Use your veg nutrient for the first 2 weeks of bloom (the stretch). Then 50:50 veg and bloom for a week. Now go 100% bloom.
    I would suggest you supplement a Mg sulfate supplement and/or a K sulfate supplement. Stop use of these 2-3 weeks before harvest !

    Same for bottled organic users. Super soil guys? I tend to expect you to be an advanced grower anyway. You most likely have your soils set already....

    #2 tip would be to spend the money and get the environment into exacting control. Temps only vary by 4-5 deg. and even tighter if you can. Same for RH. 45% set point and about a 4-5 % over/under from the dehuey's over/under on and off points. Buy quality in a dehuey, not Menards.......Take the time to research them and find how much they go past the set point before turning on - the closer the better. Consistency is really a key to better, consistent results......Environmental changes, change everything....

    BTW, I set temps to 71 deg and hold to 74 in the hottest months..... RH rides up to 49 and overshoots to 42. Over the years. I have my plants being dialed into that environment. As far as feeding - how much/how often. I water a metered amount every day at lights on. This carries them 24 hrs to the next lights on......I can see plant reactions to synthetic use faster and respond to them faster that way. Mainly it increases O2 to the roots and that's a very good thing.

    I water plain water or AACT (on a sched. - every 2 - 3 weeks for the most part) mixed in water, everyday in my organic runs too.
     
  4.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    All (non insulting) input is welcome here!
    So glad things have resulted well for you, considering the possibilities.

    Thanks!
     
    OldMedUser, cindysid and Buba Blend like this.
  5.  
    OldMedUser

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    Now this is something I have a problem with. Veg nutes for the stretch. Years ago I experimented with when to introduce Bloom foods and boosters and got the best results when I upped the Bloom and added a half dose of Big Bud a week before flipping to flower. At the end of the first week I was seeing popcorn bud the size of a marble instead of the usual tiny clusters of 3 or 4 calyxes. A lot more bud sites popping up all over as well.

    Even the instructions on the BB say to start using it at the flip but I think getting some in there early "primes the pump" so to say.

    With my DWC I'm running 3-part nutes at a 3-3-1 ratio after an initial start from clone of 1-1-1 so they have a bit of everything to get going on. The week before the flip I just boost up the ppm about 20 -25% adding in some extra bloom on top of the G and M and let them eat that up in the frenzy of growth during the stretch. Once the stretch is done is when I will do a complete first nute change and charge the new sol'n with something like a 0-2-1 Lucas style with Big Bud at a full dose at say 75% of what they were at just before the flip. That should last the next couple of weeks and eat the ppm down about 50% from where it started at and just let them coast to the finish for an 8 week strain with the big fans going yellow and soft indicating that I have no toxic salts buildup. I'll remove some of the nutes and replace with RO and a dash of CalMag if the ppm isn't dropping fast enough. No flush as I crop in stages and fresh trim.

    I've done around 50 tubs in DWC since '01 and have run many experiments in that time. Often to the point of almost losing a tub of plants but bringing them back from the brink just to see what happens. Never lost a tub yet. (knock wood) :)

    I'll have to run a side-by-side using identical clones from the same mom sometime to see for myself.

    :peace:
     
    Cannadab1s likes this.
  6.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    This applies to lines that have multi supplement additives. They formulate that way..... The Balance of N is not lowered out of reality and the P&K is not raised above plant tolerance.

    Some lines do that well.

    Canna
    Hesi
    Certain Botanicare lines.

    These run that way.

    By far the bulk of nutrient makers lower the N too far and raise the P to high, to start bloom with. I tickle the P a very minor amount during the time I up-pot and let the the roots spread in my final pots. So your not wrong.....I just say be careful.

    In synthetic use, I generally stay around 4-6-6 and adjust by strain needs. This is a good ratio for heavy feeders. Some like less N and some like less P. Some like less of each. Basically they can be adjusted (my 2 part style) to fit the needs of any strain.

    Take a gander at ANC's post here. This is an advanced way to begin to understand the ever changing needs of blooming cannabis.

    While the main topic is about manipulation of THC contents. I feel it's also a good show of how the plant actually should be fed. It's needs change, and those changes can be used to attain potentials. If learned and followed. Tickle here, raise there, and a drop and raise of some things later.

    http://www.rollitup.org/t/will-a-hi...-into-a-high-cbd-strain.950851/#post-13937958

    It's all about what you want in the end.

    I feel P is an over used nutrient in most lines, or of course, applied at the wrong times. Basically put, bottled and charted poorly for cannabis.

    There is no such thing as cannabis specific nutrients. There is cannabis specific charting.

    While AN and H&G work. They have too many things in to many bottles for to high a price.

    Nice post by you though!
     
  7.  
    OldMedUser

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    When I'm not busy being an a-hole I'm pretty nice for an old fart. ;)

    This whole thing about the N got me to switch back to old reliable 3-part AN nutes after trying out the Sensi Grow and Connie Bloom for a bit because I was always getting toxic salts buildup starting around week 5 in flower. This kept happening in both soil/soilless and DWC. I don't really push the nutes hard to force faster growth either so especially as I use only RO water it was bugging the crap out of me.

    With the 2-part I was using equal amounts of both for feeding as you are supposed to. As they have different nutes and minerals in each bottle I figured I'd do more harm than good trying to limit N by using less of the bottle with the N. I could have substituted things like epsom if that bottle held the Mg etc but I use those nutes for the ease of them. After 16 years of use without a problem I could ever attribute to the nutes themselves I can't swear to the quality but I can to the consistency. I believe they are of superior quality to say, GH 3-part, and I prefer not to give people who have been consistent about opposing the cannabis community my money. Now with the whole Scott's thing no way. Not here to debate about that stuff tho.

    So while wandering through the interweb I come upon an article about Vapour Pressure Deficit, VPD, and give it a good read. A light bulb lights up in my head and a good self induced ass kicking quickly followed. :)

    Way the hell up here the humidity rarely exceeds 60% a few times in the spring an fall mostly when we've had a good rain. Even all summer it's around 40%. In the dead of winter when it's 15C pretty steady with weeks long drops into the -30 and lower temps the RH outside is basically zero and even with lots of bigger plants in the grow room it hovers around 30% without adding moisture.

    My last grow was all a 50:50 mix of ProMix HP and PM potting soil and I deliberately cut my usual feed in half. Still saw minor nute burn in a few of the 27 or so plants I had going but nothing global. The whole grow finished with any yellowing leaves all soft and pliable instead of thick, hard and crispy like before so I'm certain I'm on the right track here.

    It would be a PITA to keep my RH up and it would be bouncing down then up again every time the exhaust fan cycles so I've decided to do the lower ppm thing with DWC and see how that goes. Should have a tub or few up and running soon.

    On another note. I read something interesting about the whole top your plants to get the side branches closer to even out the canopy and how it's controlled by this or that hormone blah blah. Turns out the hormones role to play is to limit the amount of sugars delivered to the side branches thus limiting their growth. When you top, it spreads out the sugars and gets them going.

    The article did a study using pea plants I believe and they tried various sugars and found sucrose was most effective as a foliar spray to deliver sugars to the grow tips on one side if the plants and they grew as if the plant were topped. Next time I'm near a health food store I'm going to pick up some sucrose and try this out. Would be nice to keep the main cola and get an even canopy without the inevitable delay caused by topping or FIMing. Food for thought.

    :peace:
     
    Dr. Who and Cannadab1s like this.
  8.  
    Cannadab1s

    Cannadab1s Well-Known Member

    I bought cannabis specific nutrients for my first grow, local hydro stores blend. Just sayin.
    20171127_150853.jpg

    All of this 1-1-1 stuff is so confusing to me since theres like a bajillion chemicals inside of these vs just 3. How do yall know exactly whats going into the plant vs just knowing the npk value? I figured id go with the easiest combo so i dont mess things up...again...
     
    OldMedUser likes this.
  9.  
    Cannadab1s

    Cannadab1s Well-Known Member

    I was recently trying to harass everyone here to see if they have their VPD on point as i also just stumbled onto it during research time for my first grow...did you get it locked into your grow area and what difference did u see?
     
    OldMedUser likes this.
  10.  
    OldMedUser

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    It would be too hard to maintain a higher RH during the winter so I'm going with much lower ppm levels to prevent salts building up in the fan leaves. Should have really good growth rates with the amount of water the plants will transpire in a low RH environment.

    Maybe down the road I'll invest in a decent humidifier, AC etc and run a sealed room with CO2 but I should be good for a while.
     
  11.  
    OldMedUser

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    The ratio numbers relate to how much of each bottle of a 3-part nute system to use during various stages of a plant's growth. You are using a 2-part system so it doesn't really pertain to you.

    When I say I'm using a 1-1-1 ratio for early growth it means I'm using equal parts of all three bottles to feed my plants. 3-part is referred to in this order. Grow-Micro-Bloom or GMB. When you use the Lucas formula to limit N in later flowering you use none from the Grow bottle and use twice as much of the Micro which has lots of N as you do Bloom. So you are using them at a 2-1 ratio.

    The NPK ratios refer to the amount of the three basic fertilizer elements in the bottle, bag or truckload by percentage. Some people grow decent plants just buying a couple of different plant food formulas from the local garden center and mixing to get the ratios they feel will work well with their plants. Basic tomato food can get the job done but is higher in P that tomatoes like more where pot wants more K and less P in later flowering. Some guys even swear by Scott's Miracle-Gro but I don't want to smoke their bud as the metals contamination in that stuff is way high. Anything made for ornamentals is made from the cheapest and most contaminated minerals that China has to offer. Same with Alaska Fish Ferts. Hasn't been made in Alaska for years and even says on the bottles, Not for Food crops but guys still use that too. Made in Indonesia I believe.

    I was using the 2-part Sensi Grow for veg and the 2-part Connoisseur Bloom for flower but you pretty much have to use equal parts of both to make sure your plants are getting all the different minerals etc that are in each bottle to keep the balance the makers designed into it. The 3-part gives you more control over the various components but not a hell of a lot. The guys that use the bare-bones dry salts method can tailor their blends to much more specific parameters. That's the kind of nutes I had back in '82. Just bags of different nutrient salts and a short recipe list for various types of plants. The guy at the hydro store just pointed at the mix for tomatoes and said to use that one for my "special" tomatoes. wink-wink. Couldn't talk pot in the hydro shops back in the day.

    It's hard to tell exactly what's in the bottles as agricultural labeling laws are very specific about what nute makers can say are plant growing things. Those laws vary from state to state and country to country so it's just the basics you see on the label.

    If you just use your nutes as directed you'll likely feed too much so always go with no more than 1/2 of the directed maximum and you'll likely do fine. As you get to know your plants needs and can "read" them you can start tweaking different aspects of their feed and environment to get better growth and yields. Takes a while and even after decades of it I'm still learning more every day from people like the good @Dr. Who.

    Good luck!
     
  12.  
    Cannadab1s

    Cannadab1s Well-Known Member

    What kinda lights u got? This is all extremely new to me, sorry for all the questions. Lol. I wanna test VPD out with sealed room and co2 soon. Sounds like theres huge potential with it and since ill be growing my own from now on, its def in the near future. For the money i used to pay to dealers, this will still be cheaper so i dont mind if my grow space ends up looking like the inside of a nasa rocket and costs a few grand.
     
  13.  
    Cannadab1s

    Cannadab1s Well-Known Member

    Those labeling laws sound like some real bs....it would be so much easier if they had every single element with a percentage like the back of a food package.. wtf govts?
     
  14.  
    OldMedUser

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    Kind of hijacking the Doc's thread here so maybe shoot me a PM if you want to have a convo.
     
  15.  
    Cannadab1s

    Cannadab1s Well-Known Member

    My bad. I do this so i can potentially get constructive debates going on such as the one you and doc were having, to enlighten the community on diff schools of thought vs just one persons pov tbh.
     
  16.  
    OldMedUser

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    There are forums for that but this is Dr. Who's thread about the plants he's growing. I wasn't debating anything.
     
  17.  
    Cannadab1s

    Cannadab1s Well-Known Member

    You were just debating veg stretch nutes with doc after i asked him how he got his plants so sexy. Anyways, ill go search elsewhere for info. Thx.
     
  18.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    This works. Use an 8 bulb T5 fixture with a spread of nm band bulbs - use veg and bloom bulbs 50:50 - and veg under that along with some sucrose spritzing. They'll form a nice flat level form easy like. I do this and remove much of the "sucker" branching from the secondary branch's.....The main does, often, get super cropped. I have then, one nice level canopy for blooming wonderful side branch mains..
     
    too larry and OldMedUser like this.
  19.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    I have NO problem with open discussion here! Please feel free to carry on growing debate......There is plenty of room between my journal posts for constructive talk and learning!

    Not like I'm limited on space!
     
    DankTankerous likes this.
  20.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    See the above post ^^^^
     
    OldMedUser likes this.

Share This Page