Don't lose your head, convert to Islam

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Your idiot assumption that I'm a Christian shows what a fool you are. I have told you specifically several times that I am not a Christian, but you continue your idiotic statements that I am.
so are you jewish or not jewish? you have claimed to be both before.

is that my failure to absorb your rudimentary information, or is it the result of you being a merciless family-killing serial liar?

This is an example of your failure to absorb even the most rudimentary information, leading to your worldview based on dogma instead of reality.
you are admittedly anti-islamic. had this been 50 years ago, you'd just as casually have stated that you are anti-black.
 

SmokeyDan

Well-Known Member
Hitler was Catholic, fact



How little history you know.

Hitler placated the religious beliefs of the people of his empire. He was born and grew up catholic in Vienna.

Hitler in reality was following a pre christian Germanic pagan cult.

The Pope at the time met with him.

Hitler severely weekend the churches in his state.

Did you not read the link I posted earlier? Does this sound like something a Catholic would say?

“Either we have a German God or none at all. The international God flies with the strongest squadrons – and they are not on the German side. We cannot kneel to a God who pays more attention to the French than to us. We Germans have been forsaken by the Christian God. He is not a just, supernatural God, but a party political God of the others. It is because we believed in him and not in our own German God that we were defeated in the struggle of the nations.”
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
How little history you know.

Hitler placated the religious beliefs of the people of his empire. He was born and grew up catholic in Vienna.

Hitler in reality was following a pre christian Germanic pagan cult.

The Pope at the time met with him.

Hitler severely weekend the churches in his state.

Did you not read the link I posted earlier? Does this sound like something a Catholic would say?

“Either we have a German God or none at all. The international God flies with the strongest squadrons – and they are not on the German side. We cannot kneel to a God who pays more attention to the French than to us. We Germans have been forsaken by the Christian God. He is not a just, supernatural God, but a party political God of the others. It is because we believed in him and not in our own German God that we were defeated in the struggle of the nations.”
That quote is attributed to Professor Ernst Bergmann in 1934. It's a common tactic among the religious to claim Hitler was an atheist when in fact most credible sources would tell you the opposite, that he was a Catholic all the way until his death and was never excommunicated from the church.

He was non practicing, but he was still a catholic, and the vast majority of soldiers under Nazi control were definitely religious.




"God with us"

Which brings me to another point that strengthens the previous one I made (organized religion can be dangerous);

"In a 1922 speech he said "my feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter". In his semi-autobiographical Mein Kampf (1925/6), he makes a number of religious allusions, claiming to fulfil the will of the Christian God and having been chosen by providence. In a 1928 speech he said: "We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity ... in fact our movement is Christian." Given his hostility to Christianity, Laurence Rees wrote that "The most persuasive explanation of these statements is that Hitler, as a politician, simply recognised the practical reality of the world he inhabited... Had Hitler distanced himself or his movement too much from Christianity it is all but impossible to see how he could ever have been successful in a free election"."

So, in other words, he used organized religion to further his political goals.

If that doesn't send the point home, I'm not sure what will


Now, can you tell me how atheism could be used in this way? How could someone build the kind of unity of the Nazi party based on a nonbelief? (hint: they couldn't)
 

WHODAT@THADOR

Well-Known Member
That quote is attributed to Professor Ernst Bergmann in 1934. It's a common tactic among the religious to claim Hitler was an atheist when in fact most credible sources would tell you the opposite, that he was a Catholic all the way until his death and was never excommunicated from the church.

He was non practicing, but he was still a catholic, and the vast majority of soldiers under Nazi control were definitely religious.




"God with us"

Which brings me to another point that strengthens the previous one I made (organized religion can be dangerous);

"In a 1922 speech he said "my feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter". In his semi-autobiographical Mein Kampf (1925/6), he makes a number of religious allusions, claiming to fulfil the will of the Christian God and having been chosen by providence. In a 1928 speech he said: "We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity ... in fact our movement is Christian." Given his hostility to Christianity, Laurence Rees wrote that "The most persuasive explanation of these statements is that Hitler, as a politician, simply recognised the practical reality of the world he inhabited... Had Hitler distanced himself or his movement too much from Christianity it is all but impossible to see how he could ever have been successful in a free election"."

So, in other words, he used organized religion to further his political goals.

If that doesn't send the point home, I'm not sure what will

Now, can you tell me how atheism could be used in this way? How could someone build the kind of unity of the Nazi party based on a nonbelief? (hint: they couldn't)
He also studied Machiavelli's "The Prince" Front and back.
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
So Pol Pot and Stalin's armies didn't kill millions? You already knew about these, so you're intentionally lying.
Their absence of belief in a higher power is completely irrelevant to their actions.

It's like comparing apples and hand grenades, they didn't carry out the acts they did in the name of atheism.

I don't agree with Padawanrapist regularly, but this is a fucking stupid point you made.
 

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
Hitler was Catholic, fact




He was baptized and raised catholic but was not a practicing one.

The religious ruse was only to garner support of the people and his army as Hitlers number one interest was the occult.

The guy spent some serious resources tracking down religious artifacts, not because of their religious significance but rather their occult significance.

Do you remember Rudolf Hess and his jump into Scotland? Hess was interrogated/debriefed by Alister Crowley and Ian Fleming.
 
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SmokeyDan

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater0 post: 10936772 said:
That quote is attributed to Professor Ernst Bergmann in 1934. It's a common tactic among the religious to claim Hitler was anexcommunicate in fact most credible sources would tell you the opposite, that he was a Catholic all the way until his death and was never excommunicated from the church.

He was non practicing, but he was still a catholic, and the vast majority of soldiers under Nazi control were definitely religious.




"God with us"

Which brings me to another point that strengthens the previous one I made (organized religion can be dangerous);

"In a 1922 speech he said "my feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter". In his semi-autobiographical Mein Kampf (1925/6), he makes a number of religious allusions, claiming to fulfil the will of the Christian God and having been chosen by providence. In a 1928 speech he said: "We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity ... in fact our movement is Christian." Given his hostility to Christianity, Laurence Rees wrote that "The most persuasive explanation of these statements is that Hitler, as a politician, simply recognised the practical reality of the world he inhabited... Had Hitler distanced himself or his movement too much from Christianity it is all but impossible to see how he could ever have been successful in a free election"."

So, in other words, he used organized religion to further his political goals.

If that doesn't send the point home, I'm not sure what will

Now, can you tell me how atheism could be used in this way? How could someone build the kind of unity of the Nazi party based on a nonbelief? (hint: they couldn't)
It should be no surprise that Hitler professed christianity because he was a politician, in a country with a strong christian heritage.

Are you really surprised the Pope didn't excommunicate him while he was in Mousilini's Italy?

With Hitler it isn't as cut and dry as it is with Stalin.

I'd give Stalin a 0, Hitler might get a 14 out of 100.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
It should be no surprise that Hitler professed christianity because he was a politician, in a country with a strong christian heritage.

Are you really surprised the Pope didn't excommunicate him while he was in Mousilini's Italy?

With Hitler it isn't as cut and dry as it is with Stalin.

I'd give Stalin a 0, Hitler might get a 14 out of 100.
Hitlers religiosity isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about how organized religion can lead some people to do horrible things. Atheism can't because it's simply the lack of belief in a god.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
He was baptized and raised catholic but was not a practicing one.

The religious ruse was only to garner support of the people and his army as Hitlers number one interest was the occult.

The guy spent some serious resources tracking down religious artifacts, not because of their religious significance but rather their occult significance.

Do you remember Rudolf Hess and his jump into Scotland? Hess was interrogated/debriefed by Alister Crowley and Ian Fleming.
echelon1k1 was in on the plot to kill hitler.
 

SmokeyDan

Well-Known Member
Hitlers religiosity isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about how organized religion can lead some people to do horrible things. Atheism can't because it's simply the lack of belief in a god.
Good people do good. Bad people do bad, but to get a good person to do bad, or a bad person to do good, you need religion.

If we're saying bad things happen by the hand of religious people who evoke that religion in the act, sure.

I don't know that I get your point. Atheism is an expression that denotes a lack of theism. A lack of theism by definition is incapable of doing anything in your mind.

But what about the reality of the world. North Korea is an atheist state. In the name of atheism their leaders routinely kill and imprison people simply because they find evidence of some religious beliefs in a person.

The truth is people tend to be violent and evil and religion is merely a scape goat.

Christianity has very little in the way of promoting violence in its texts. Islam has a lot.

You might counter by saying that the bible is full of violence, and it is. It is almost exclusively in the OT. The NT abrogated the OT. The only importance to Christianity the OT is to help inform us about the roots.

The OT is not theologically binding.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
But what about the reality of the world. North Korea is an atheist state. In the name of atheism their leaders routinely kill and imprison people simply because they find evidence of some religious beliefs in a person.
They don't execute anybody "in the name of atheism". They execute people, as was already mentioned, because they see religious activity as a potential challenge to the leadership.

It's about power, not religion.


Christianity has very little in the way of promoting violence in its texts. Islam has a lot.

You might counter by saying that the bible is full of violence, and it is. It is almost exclusively in the OT. The NT abrogated the OT. The only importance to Christianity the OT is to help inform us about the roots.

The OT is not theologically binding.
That's your interpretation of the OT & NT. For example, references to homosexuality are exclusively in the OT, why then do modern day Christians oppose gay rights? According to you the NT "abrogated the OT"..

If modern Christians are going to oppose things exclusively in the OT, they have to accept the violence that comes with the rest of it.
 

WHODAT@THADOR

Well-Known Member
They don't execute anybody "in the name of atheism". They execute people, as was already mentioned, because they see religious activity as a potential challenge to the leadership.

It's about power, not religion.




That's your interpretation of the OT & NT. For example, references to homosexuality are exclusively in the OT, why then do modern day Christians oppose gay rights? According to you the NT "abrogated the OT"..

If modern Christians are going to oppose things exclusively in the OT, they have to accept the violence that comes with the rest of it.
It's alway's about power...What's one of the best way's to control a population?Fear or a false persona that they are actually free? Death in the name of religion I find quite humorous...There all Guise's nothing more then that used to insare the mind's of the simple....And that include's Atheism
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
It's alway's about power...What's one of the best way's to control a population?Fear or a false persona that they are actually free? Death in the name of religion I find quite humorous...There all Guise's nothing more then that used to insare the mind's of the simple....And that include's Atheism
How is atheism a "guise.. used to ensnare the minds of the simple" if it's simply the lack of belief in a god? It's the answer to a single question, nothing more
 
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