Does molasses really remove chloramine?

Buddha's Botany

Buddha's Botany

Member
SpicySativa said:
RO isn't even that effective against chloramines.
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Not at all, have to use cat carbon to get that. What RO is good for though is removing alkalinity, dissolved metals, salts and other potentially harmful levels of any number of things. IMO if you don't have really nice well/spring water source or rain collection going on RO saves way to many BS headaches to not be used. IDK maybe it's just my paranoia and exp with reef aquariums but it has served me well to make sure the water whatever it is I'm growing gets is as close to perfect as possible every single time, 300 dollar initial and 180-220 bucks worth of replacement's a year, silly thing pays for itself in coral frags alone. *shrug* maybe overkill but it's the only way to be sure.

Wetdog said:
Pretty much that ^^^^^

The corollary is, your organic soil will break it down if using tap water.At least that has been my experience over the years. For the last 5 years, my tap water has been treated with chloramines.

I have noticed NO detrimental effects from using straight tap water in my organic mix.

Wet
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Problem is when you use your grow medium to break down that chloramine it dishes your micro fauna colony a serious blow...and that's no bueno, you want your micro fauna to thrive not struggle for survival. You deff want chloramine out or at least at super low levels before it hit's your pots
 
assrabbi

assrabbi

Well-Known Member
I started bubbling my tap water at the suggestion of an organic gardening thread. Was looking at my area's annual water report this evening and learned about chloramine for the first time. I'm bummed I haven't been evaporating all that out, if that's the case.

A side note, and I don't know how valid or pertinent this is. I've tested water right out of my tap at 50ppm, water I've bubbled for a day or two reads at 30ppm. I believe something is leaving as it sits.

What adds to my confusion is that on the annual water report is lists the inorganic additive "chloramine as CI(little 2)"
From what I understand CI(little 2) is "elemental chlorine"..

Further more, it seems there is no figure for chloramine at the water treatment plant that serves my area. So I guess I'm saying this for someone else's sake and not mine anymore. Food for thought.

The areas adjacent to me that do have figures for chloramine content are in the 1-3 parts per billion range, so I don't know how much effect it could have if it was getting to my plants.

I'm thinking there may be some disconnect in chemistry jargon that is confusing this subject.
 
U

urban1026835

Well-Known Member
Great thread guys keep it coming. Gonna start looking into my area, have before but only for tds readings and such on the agricultural data site for my state.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
I use a counter top RO unit that I picked up from Home Depot. I was reluctant to use an RO system due to all of the waste water that is produced, but this one doesn't waste a drop. It uses a catalytic carbon filter that is supposed to remove 93% of all chloramines along with fluoride, lead, mercury, etc. it claims that it does NOT remove dissolved solids such as calcium and magnesium. I love the thing. I think I paid $99 for it a couple years back, and I have replaced the filter on it a couple times since which I believe are around $25 or so.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Sodium sulfate found in molasses and fish hydroslate will break down chloromine into ammonia. Then ammonia will evaporate.
it takes twice as long as chlorine to evaporate
 
Jack Harer

Jack Harer

Well-Known Member
After about 5 years of research (reading other folks research papers, articles, etc) I have come to the conclusion that the only way to get rid of chloramine is to somehow break the chloramine bond, separating the Cl from the ammonia. The Chlorine will "gas off" naturally, and if you have a good bacterial colony the nitrosomonas and nitrobacters in the soil will break the ammonia down into nitrite, then nitrate, same as in a marine aquarium. I have yet to find a filtration system that will remove chloramine. Period. RO will strip EVERYTHING from the water, almost the same as distilling. You'll have to add the necessary micronutrients and minerals or face deficiencies.

OR....you can do like Nullis, Spicy and WetDog, (and myself) and not worry about it! The ONLY time I have ever had a problem with water was in the beginning when I took everyones advice and used distilled, then RO. I had Ca/Mg issues the entire time. Funny how that stopped when I reverted back to tap!
 
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Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
When chloramines come into contact with large amounts of organic matter (particularly organic N), it forms organic chloramines which are not disinfectants. Humic acids will neutralize chloramines. Fish hydrolysate, I understand how that could work since there would be amino acids there.

Molasses... maybe. Molasses has some organic matter (5-10%) content and traces of sulfites (unless it was sulfured).

Activated Carbon filters will reduce it significantly.

Chloramines remain active in the water system for a considerably long period of time. Like other molecules, chloramines contribute to the total amount of dissolved solids in the water. Like chlorine, chloramines are selectively reactive and may have damaging affects when they remain in the water for too long.
When chloramines are present, there are usually trace amounts of ammonia and hypochlorite in the water as well. Chloramines are hardly ionic. As a result and because of the low molecular weight, chloramines, mainly monochloramine, are difficult to remove from water by reverse osmosis (RO) or water softening. Boiling and distillation cannot be used either. Substances for chlorine removal cannot be used for the removal of chloramines. Sunlight and aeration may aid chloramine removal.
Chloramines can be removed by means of a granular active carbon filter. This filter brings down chloramine concentrations from 1-2 ppm to less than 0,1 ppm. One must make sure that the active carbon comes in contact with chloramines for a significant amount of time. An active carbon filter is a selective, which means it also removes other compounds, such as chlorine (reduction to chloride), hydrogen sulphide, organic compounds, THM, pesticides and radon. When these compounds are present in water, this will influence the capacity of the filter.

Read more: http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-chloramines.htm#ixzz3ImmFdqvl
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DonPetro

DonPetro

Well-Known Member
Nullis said:
When chloramines come into contact with large amounts of organic matter (particularly organic N), it forms organic chloramines which are not disinfectants. Humic acids will neutralize chloramines. Fish hydrolysate, I understand how that could work since there would be amino acids there.

Molasses... maybe. Molasses has some organic matter (5-10%) content and traces of sulfites (unless it was sulfured).

Activated Carbon filters will reduce it significantly.
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What about any humic acids found in worm castings? I am trying bubbling the water with molasses for 24 hours before adding worm castings. I don't have any test equipment or a microscope but so far so good. Foams up and smells sweet and earthy as usual. I would still like to run the water through a filter eventually before brewing.
 
G

grouch

Well-Known Member
Would cycling the water through a fish tank work to break the bonds? Sounds like a simple way to keep water on hand.
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
Aerating it will work, it just takes longer. Good activated carbon filters should work. Adding extracted HAs or some humus\compost also should neutralize the chloramines. It really depends on just how much is used in your municipality. It might be best to remove if there is a lot or your water is otherwise of poor quality.

Low concentrations of chloramines probably aren't going to wipe out the microbial communities in your soil mix. When dealing with or speaking of most substances, just as with drugs and poisons concentration means a lot. If any are killed it will ultimately have been insignificant and they will bounce back. Many people, for example, don't have any kind of filtration on the hose they use to water their lawns, gardens, etc.
 
Tejashidrow

Tejashidrow

Well-Known Member
R/o wastes too much water
Pond Dechlorinator
Neutralizes both
Get at any box store
1 bottle
$10
Dechlorinates 5,000 gallons of water
But to be honest
Every time I water my Chamber it has molasses or fulvic in it.....
But would be nice to know just how much molasses it takes in a gallon to break the bond and neutralize the chlorines
 
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gwheels

gwheels

Well-Known Member
SpicySativa said:
RO isn't even that effective against chloramines.
Click to expand...
good RO filters remove all traces including chloramine. That is how the PPM drop so low when it is filtered.

I have a 5 stage RO filter so maybe it is a better unit than the cheap ones. It wasnt cheap. It does a 1 to 1 exchange too which saves a lot of water (most are 4 gallons water to produce 1 gallon of RO not 1 to 1)
 
SoMe_EfFin_MasS_HoLe

SoMe_EfFin_MasS_HoLe

Well-Known Member
I've been told by several people that putting water through a charcoal filter at extremely slow rates over the course of 48 hours will do the trick.
 
gwheels

gwheels

Well-Known Member
SoMe_EfFin_MasS_HoLe said:
I've been told by several people that putting water through a charcoal filter at extremely slow rates over the course of 48 hours will do the trick.
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There are also filters made for it. Centaur filters work great at removing the chloramine. I have a couple in my unit.
 
gwheels

gwheels

Well-Known Member
Geeze i mixed them up. That centaur thing is a whole house RO machine filter. The ones i got are high charcoal scrubber things. 2 of those plus 2 other types are on my ro machine. The centaur thing is really expensive. I was looking it up and the name stuck in my head.
 
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