Do you belive in UFO's?

newworldicon

Well-Known Member
If you think the task is to disprove rods/ufo's, then you do not understand burden of proof. The information provided is more than enough to cast doubt, more than enough to ask certain questions. I see that you have found an irrelevant way to discount every source which offered scrutiny, yet show no such suspicion about the makers and promoters of the ufo videos. You speak of skepticism like it is racism, as if skeptics can not be objective, or have some sort of agenda. Skepticism is simply systematic doubt, applying doubt until it is no longer justified. Skepticism means being loyal to logic, consistency and rational reasoning before being loyal to any certain ideology, it does not simply mean to debunk. If you look at the monsterquest video and all you can come up with is to make fun of the shows name, then you do not understand the concept of falsification. You are not simply watching provoking videos and asking questions, you seem to be positing a global conspiracy which includes everyone who disagrees. (discovery, cbs, fox, skeptics, critics)
What I am questioning foremost is the thought process behind today's skepticism when we know that there is an undeniable mission to suppress or invalidate anything unexplainable. It has become second nature in fact. Your whole life has been filled with information which casts doubt on the existence or indeed possibility of anything besides ourselves.

It is no secret that as soon as anything weird happens there is a government agency trying to explain things away in a trivial way, why is that? Ever think of that? You claim that MUFON is as reputable as can be yet I provide a link to an Organization of people who are former members of MUFON who have first hand experience of being in the movement and have come to realize it has been infiltrated by disinformation experts, to the point they feel the need to regroup and create a new MUFON. They must be racists as well?

I showed with links how the morality of Popular Mechanics is dubious because of it's owners who just happen to be high ranking ex CIA. Why is that not good enough for you to apply that same doubt or question you wax lyrical about?? They even go so far as to try and do a headline piece that validated the twin towers dropping from fire and nothing else, how do you expect them to have any semblance of credibility after that.

We cannot argue over the fact that there are people tasked especially to spread disinfo, what I am most skeptical about though is how the average man is subdued via mass media to think their way, and I'm sorry to say it but when your only source of information you choose to link is via mainstream media outlets like ABC or the Discovery channel then I am naturally going to be suspicious of your thought process and who you choose to align yourself with.

With regards to monsterquest, I suggest you re read the response which was a little more than a supposed dig at the name of the program, they could call it by any name for all I care, what I cast doubt on is the possible agenda behind these programs because of the media corporations behind them.

If you choose to still have a semblance of faith for mainstream media then you are welcome to it.

I also cast doubt on what we today call rationality which seems to have replaced critical thinking with a quick unthoughtful explanation of everything because that would require more time than we are willing to allocate. Where's my Jersey shore....

Regarding the link you provide of the dome of the rock....in the viewer responses you have almost entirely a position that the article is inaccurate and does not disprove anything, what does that say about general consensus regarding the article and the people who took the time to express their opinions? I suspect you found the article in a quick search, read the first paragraph and decided it was good enough to support your point of view.

Where as I took the time to read the whole thing including the viewership responses.

My agenda is to find the truth about such matters, I am not interested in propping up a fallacy which includes the faking of ufos and aliens, how does that benefit the average man on the street?

By the way you will notice that I take the time to address all of the points you raise because I am interested in the debate for the sake of getting more insight, however I notice that you seem only to respond with a generalized response. If this is about who is right or wrong then why should we bother.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
What I am questioning foremost is the thought process behind today's skepticism when we know that there is an undeniable mission to suppress or invalidate anything unexplainable. It has become second nature in fact. Your whole life has been filled with information which casts doubt on the existence or indeed possibility of anything besides ourselves.
Why would something unexplainable need to be suppressed? Unexplianable means it's impossible to come to a conclusion. The matter remains unexplained. Most of the skeptics I know have no problem admitting when something is inconclusive. Offering possible explanations is no different than offering up the idea of UFO's. Favoring the most plausible explanation, that is the explanation which makes the fewest new assumptions, is proper logic unless and until new information comes to light. What is not proper is to say this inexplicable thing is explained by aliens.

It is no secret that as soon as anything weird happens there is a government agency trying to explain things away in a trivial way, why is that? Ever think of that? You claim that MUFON is as reputable as can be yet I provide a link to an Organization of people who are former members of MUFON who have first hand experience of being in the movement and have come to realize it has been infiltrated by disinformation experts, to the point they feel the need to regroup and create a new MUFON. They must be racists as well?
So the people who disinform make no secret about it? They infiltrate UFO groups, spread lies and suppress information but it's no secret to anybody? If they are too incompetent to hide their presents then why would they be any more competent when it comes to disinformation? I hear about weird stuff happening all the time yet I rarely hear a government organization stepping in to explain it. Even in this case, what agency is taking down the videos or suppressing them? The video you posted has been up since Feb 2011. What government group has debunked it?

I could easily turn the argument around. I could say that there is hard evidence that these videos were faked but that evidence is being suppressed by the powerful UFO groups which have infiltrated government and academic establishments.

I showed with links how the morality of Popular Mechanics is dubious because of it's owners who just happen to be high ranking ex CIA. Why is that not good enough for you to apply that same doubt or question you wax lyrical about?? They even go so far as to try and do a headline piece that validated the twin towers dropping from fire and nothing else, how do you expect them to have any semblance of credibility after that.
Because it is a non-sequitor. Ad Hominem attacks mean nothing to me, I am interested in the logic and evidence. I am also aware that conspiracy theory logic always manages to take evidence against the theory and turn it into evidence for the theory, via the conspiracy. IOW if people are offering worldly explanations, it only shows how desperate they are to cover it up. If popular mechanics offers plausible theories which do not agree with the conspiracy, then they must be part of it themselves! That is the very definition of unfalsifiable.

We cannot argue over the fact that there are people tasked especially to spread disinfo, what I am most skeptical about though is how the average man is subdued via mass media to think their way, and I'm sorry to say it but when your only source of information you choose to link is via mainstream media outlets like ABC or the Discovery channel then I am naturally going to be suspicious of your thought process and who you choose to align yourself with.
Critical thinking in the media is virtually non-existent. The media jumps at any chance to sensationalize a story. Show me the news story about strange lights that doesn't favor an extraterritorial explanation. Show me the ghost hunter who says an EM anomaly is just a coincidence. The spin for any sort of ghost, ufo, bigfoot, ect video in the news is that it might be real. The media always likes to say that scientists are baffled, shocked and amazed. The media promotes alternative medicine, psychic children, haunted houses, demonic possession, belief in God... all with no semblance of integrity and only the slightest nod to any skeptical opinion. Sylvia Brown and other mediums make their way on to talk shows weekly and are allowed to pretend to talk to people's dead relatives. When is the last time a skeptical guest was invited to Oprah or Montel? In movies and tv shows, skeptics and scientists are often portrayed as the bumbling non-believer who gets it in the end. Even agent Scully was written as the fool scientists who couldn't see the forest for the trees. From 'in search of' to 'unsolved mysteries' to 'sightings' to the dozens and dozens of paranormal shows on tv today, skepticism has never been popular and is rarely promoted. The overwhelming message from Hollywood is that believing in something hard enough makes it true, that faith is a virtue and something to be proud of, that something is out there!


I also cast doubt on what we today call rationality which seems to have replaced critical thinking with a quick unthoughtful explanation of everything because that would require more time than we are willing to allocate. Where's my Jersey shore....
I've never seen Jersey Shore. Skepticism is a tool of investigation, and careful investigation often dispels mystery. No investigation has ever uncovered magic, aliens, ghosts, ect. There has never been any phenomena which went from 'unexplained' to 'explained' without the benefit of science. And of course skepticism is a built in tool of science.

Regarding the link you provide of the dome of the rock....in the viewer responses you have almost entirely a position that the article is inaccurate and does not disprove anything, what does that say about general consensus regarding the article and the people who took the time to express their opinions? I suspect you found the article in a quick search, read the first paragraph and decided it was good enough to support your point of view.

Where as I took the time to read the whole thing including the viewership responses.
Are you suggesting argument from popularity is valid? I listen to credentials, not opinions of anonymous internet commenters. I thought the article revealed some interesting points, points which would suggest a wordily explanation. For example, the light from the object seems bright yet does not reflect off the dome. Either this is a mistake and evidence of tampering, or else these aliens possess some sort of light that breaks the rules of physics. It is possible aliens might have done that, but it is not more plausible than hoax. Occam's razor and all.

My agenda is to find the truth about such matters, I am not interested in propping up a fallacy which includes the faking of ufos and aliens, how does that benefit the average man on the street?

By the way you will notice that I take the time to address all of the points you raise because I am interested in the debate for the sake of getting more insight, however I notice that you seem only to respond with a generalized response. If this is about who is right or wrong then why should we bother.
If you think I am the type to shy away from an argument then you haven't read many of my posts. However I don't see what insight you can gain from me if you have already accepted a global propaganda ghost in the machine. I am not biased. I will accept alien visitation as an explanation if the evidence is there. But when we have competing explanations for any given phenomena which equally explain the evidence we are smart to favor the one which assumes the least. When something is unexplained, it is irresponsible to call it anything other than unexplained.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
heisenberg, mindphuk, i would bail out of this thread.

youre arguing with nutcase

he believes:

communism is a jewish plot:
It was the Bolshevik Zionist piggie jews who created communism you moron.
north korea is just the victim of propaganda by the "zionist pigggie jew media"
How much do you really know about N. Korea other than what your western media tells you, I for one am at least realistic about my lack of knowledge considering their secrecy unlike you trying to be informed by intimating they have blow and hookers. The fact is you, I and most of the world knows nothing about them other than what you read in an already tarnished western media. If you won't be honest with me at least be honest with yourself!
capitalism is ALSO a "zionist piggie jew" plot
As for the leaders having everything and the commoners having nothing.....we could say the same in western countries right now, Your beloved USA is in the same predicament, most of Europe is the same too. The facade of democracy and capitalism is exactly that, a facade.
the holocaust? "zionist piggie jew plot"
The holocaust was and is a Zionist piggie lie and every day your precious mainstream media loses it's footing it becomes more apparent of this, care to debate me on this subject?
his sources for his "evidence" invarialbly lead back to Lyndon LaRouche, Alex Jones, and crackpot antisemitic "warriors of light" like these fuckwits:
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2027854/pg1

dont look to long, the crazy is contagious.


kinda makes my crazy belief that photons have mass, sound almost... rational.
 

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
I showed with links how the morality of Popular Mechanics is dubious because of it's owners who just happen to be high ranking ex CIA. Why is that not good enough for you to apply that same doubt or question you wax lyrical about?? They even go so far as to try and do a headline piece that validated the twin towers dropping from fire and nothing else, how do you expect them to have any semblance of credibility after that.




 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
heisenberg, mindphuk, i would bail out of this thread.

youre arguing with nutcase

he believes:

communism is a jewish plot:


north korea is just the victim of propaganda by the "zionist pigggie jew media"


capitalism is ALSO a "zionist piggie jew" plot


the holocaust? "zionist piggie jew plot"


his sources for his "evidence" invarialbly lead back to Lyndon LaRouche, Alex Jones, and crackpot antisemitic "warriors of light" like these fuckwits:
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2027854/pg1

dont look to long, the crazy is contagious.


kinda makes my crazy belief that photons have mass, sound almost... rational.
Point taken
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/9653499/UFO-enthusiasts-admit-the-truth-may-not-be-out-there-after-all.html

"Enthusiasts admit that a continued failure to provide proof and a decline in the number of “flying saucer” sightings suggests that aliens do not exist after all and could mean the end of “Ufology” – the study of UFOs – within the next decade."


"Dozens of groups interested in the flying saucers and other unidentified craft have already closed because of lack of interest and next week one of the country’s foremost organisations involved in UFO research is holding a conference to discuss whether the subject has any future."

“I think that any UFO researcher would tell you that 98 per cent of sightings that happen are very easily explainable. One of the conclusions to draw from that is that perhaps there isn’t anything there. The days of compelling eyewitness sightings seem to be over.”

"As well as a fall in sightings and lack of proof, Mr Wood said the lack of new developments meant that the main focus for the dwindling numbers of enthusiasts was supposed UFO encounters that took place several decades ago and conspiracy theories that surround them."
 

echelon1k1

New Member
There has to be something to the UFO phenomenon even if only 2-5% of whats seen is the real deal.

I think the most credible UFO sightings have been at Military installations that are home to ICBMs and other neuclear weapons.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/ufos-hovering-above-us-military-bases/story-e6frf7jx-1225930833038

You can say these blokes are nuts all you want, but the fact remains, they were put in charge of weaponary that EBE's seem to be interested in.

If nothing else it should be a cause for concern, since these sightings are at very sensitive installations. I would however speculate, that governments would be very interested in their technology and in particular, applying said technology into military applications, namely weapons.
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/9653499/UFO-enthusiasts-admit-the-truth-may-not-be-out-there-after-all.html

"Enthusiasts admit that a continued failure to provide proof and a decline in the number of “flying saucer” sightings suggests that aliens do not exist after all and could mean the end of “Ufology” – the study of UFOs – within the next decade."


"Dozens of groups interested in the flying saucers and other unidentified craft have already closed because of lack of interest and next week one of the country’s foremost organisations involved in UFO research is holding a conference to discuss whether the subject has any future."

“I think that any UFO researcher would tell you that 98 per cent of sightings that happen are very easily explainable. One of the conclusions to draw from that is that perhaps there isn’t anything there. The days of compelling eyewitness sightings seem to be over.”

"As well as a fall in sightings and lack of proof, Mr Wood said the lack of new developments meant that the main focus for the dwindling numbers of enthusiasts was supposed UFO encounters that took place several decades ago and conspiracy theories that surround them."
This only proves that the Aliens have improved the cloaking ability of their ships ;)
 

Mister Sister

Active Member
Ah, the topic of "Aliens". If only people could see how close these beings really are to us...the word alien only reflects the state of mind of most of humanity. These beings are not alien at all.

Go meditate on the subject and ask yourself who these beings really are, and why you should know.

There are positive and negative extra-terrestrials, evolving and devolving, just as there are humans. Don't think for a moment, however, that you are separate from 'them'. All things are intimately connected, as above so below.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Ah, the topic of "Aliens". If only people could see how close these beings really are to us...the word alien only reflects the state of mind of most of humanity. These beings are not alien at all.

Go meditate on the subject and ask yourself who these beings really are, and why you should know.

There are positive and negative extra-terrestrials, evolving and devolving, just as there are humans. Don't think for a moment, however, that you are separate from 'them'. All things are intimately connected, as above so below.


Bask Warmly My Scaly Brother.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
[video=youtube;J8X6zquGFnk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8X6zquGFnk[/video]

It's very possible this is alien spacecraft moving faster than the naked eye can see and suppressing sonic booms while regularly operating out of the suburbs of Denver in the middle of the day, but it absolutely is not a bug! Even though it looks like a bug, moves like a bug and people keep saying it's a bug, it's just not possible.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
[video=youtube;lYYTlFdGwM8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYYTlFdGwM8&feature=watch_response[/video]

It just can't be a bug. It's doubtful for someone to be playing with RC toys and the military couldn't test drones in a populated area, but alien crafts could be launching and landing, that is likely in a populated area, no need to investigate further with multiple shots or different angles, that's silly.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Definitely not a bug! Absolutely did not waste NORAD's time with this serious investigation. I am so glad they retained the aviation expert, they really don't need an expert in video. :roll:
 
Top