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DIY: pH Down - EASY!

Discussion in 'Do It Yourself' started by Enigma, Jan 13, 2010.

  1.  
    Saulamus

    Saulamus Active Member

    True about the weak base, weak acid. I haven't tried to find nitric acid outside of the stockroom, isn't that pretty hard to find for most folks? Considering they make explosives from it, so even stockrooms are limited in the amount they are allowed to have on hand. 500 mL for each research lab.
     
    Enigma likes this.
  2.  
    BAMS

    BAMS Well-Known Member

    Buy your citric acid in bulk, it is a very useful product for around the home. Other uses besides crafting your own pH down, you can toss it in some cream, let sit, and discard the whey and keep the curd for your own sour cream on your Nachos, or even venture further into non-cultural production of some soft cheeses, such as Mozarella. You can make a mix of citric acid, tartaric acid and sugar and let the kids make their own sour lollies (which you might enjoy later that night to get the mouth watered back up again from cotton mouth). I've always bought my citric acid by the 500 gram packs or bigger, but I am also a home cheesemaker and use it a fair bit in cheeses.

    Nitric acid is illegal to possess here in Australia, if your wanting to have a strong acid to make a pH down, then really only option is Phosphoric acid which you just buy at the local hardware store labeled "Rust converter"
     
  3.  
    churchhaze

    churchhaze Well-Known Member

    Technaflora pH down uses nitric acid.

    I actually don't know of any other major brands that use it. Most use phosphoric.
     
  4.  
    Saulamus

    Saulamus Active Member

    Good to know. Coca-cola contains the greatest reported amount of phosphoric, carbonic, and citric acids in sodas, though still in small quantities, plus sugar, which is also supposed to be beneficial. The caramel colors and other ingredients may not be something one would want in their MJ, but I suppose it would do in a pinch.

    Has anyone here ever used it, for good or ill?
     
    churchhaze likes this.
  5.  
    churchhaze

    churchhaze Well-Known Member

    I'm sure it would be like adding a combination of phosphoric acid and molasses. You'd probably need to use a lot, again, with hard water, you'll just end up with calcium phosphate precipitates if you add to much. One way to handle this is to simply use less phosphate in your nutrient solution to compensate. I use DWC so this is for pure hydro setups.

    The sugar in the water would alter the osmotic pressure of the water without any real nutritional benefit. Alter the osmotic gradient too much and the nutrient solution will suck water out of the plant. When the osmotic gradient is caused from potassium ions, the potassium is pulled up and used to balance the pressure, but sugar is basically stuck in the solution.

    I guess it would depend on the medium you're using, but I don't think I'd use any sugar products that weren't composted first, especially indoors where you could attract pests.



     
  6.  
    BAMS

    BAMS Well-Known Member

    I would imagine if you used coca-cola you would want to open it and let it sit for 24 hours to expel all the CO2....which I guess you could open of a bottle of coke a day in your grow area and let the CO2 get soaked up by the leaves
     
  7.  
    Carthoris

    Carthoris Well-Known Member

    You could just shake it and crack the lid 3-4 times. I doubt I would use coca cola in any case.:) I With RO water you probably won't even need to use PH down, mine lands at 5.8 or 5.9 with nutes in it and I have no problem with wandering PH when using RO. With the cost of a RO unit on ebay, it is a pretty cheap investment in the long run. $60 for portable one that will last you forever.

    I'm glad people are still seeing that applepoop is an idiot.:)
     
  8.  
    Saulamus

    Saulamus Active Member

    Heheheh! It would be much easier to just use vinegar + baking soda to quickly generate CO2 into balloons and use those as you want. CO2 is large enough it won't escape through a balloon like helium does, so you can keep them until you use them. There are several instructional sites that have designs for said generator, but it's essentially a reaction chamber (milk jug) with a tube coming out of the top and going into a bump trap (20 oz bottle) to filter the gas from any foam that comes out of the reaction chamber. Wrap portions of the soda in toilet paper to give yourself enough time to get the lid back on the jug. Secure a balloon (should be a large one) onto the end of the tube coming back out of the top of the bump trap and viola!
     
    churchhaze likes this.
  9.  
    rob333

    rob333 Well-Known Member

    dident no that ph up and down was so damn dear lol just buy it
     
  10.  
    snowolf41

    snowolf41 Member

    lower ph with vinegar and raise it with baking soda simple as that. have done 4+ grows that way all turned out to be great smoke!
     
  11.  
    Saulamus

    Saulamus Active Member

    Heheheh! A fool and his money are soon parted. ;-)
     
    Enigma likes this.
  12.  
    rob333

    rob333 Well-Known Member

    who farted ?
     
  13.  
    Bootheel Grower

    Bootheel Grower Active Member

    Really... Were gonna put battery acid on our plants for ph down.. I always just use distilled vinegar or lemon juice.. It's organic and works perfect.. For ph up I use baking soda.. Come on guys this is day one shit.. Ripping batteries apart to give to your plants!!! Sounds more like cooking meth than growing pot
     
  14.  
    churchhaze

    churchhaze Well-Known Member

    You must be a novice then.

     
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  15.  
    Bootheel Grower

    Bootheel Grower Active Member

    I wouldn't say that... I've been doing this for awhile now.. I'm not saying it wouldn't work. But why do it when there are so many other safer ways of controlling your ph
     
  16.  
    churchhaze

    churchhaze Well-Known Member

    Because the methods you listed are inadequate? The reason sulfuric acid was suggested is because it's a strong acid, meaning it's fully dissociative with it's H+ ion and provides sulfates.

    Using the correct tool for the job is not improvising. You've got it backwards. Nitric and sulfuric acids are strong acids, and thus the best choices for pH down. Phosphoric acid technically isn't a strong acid, but it provides useful phosphates, and has a lower pKa than citric acid or acetic acid..

    Sodium bicarbonate contains sodium, meaning it's toxic to plants. Sodium antagonizes potassium!

    Potassium hydroxide should be used as pH up because it's a strong base, and provides potassium instead of sodium. I don't even know why I'm re-posting this as you could have easily read it the first time I wrote it.

    I highly recommend ditching the baking soda. It may be a "safer" way, but it's not the right way. Wear goggles and gloves while handling potassium hydroxide flakes. Don't rub them in your eyes. Are you afraid of sharp knives too?

     
    Enigma, Sativied and REALSTYLES like this.
  17.  
    churchhaze

    churchhaze Well-Known Member

    Being fully dissociative is key to why they're the correct choices for pH down/pH up.

    If you mix a strong acid with a strong base, you will get a highly soluble salt.

    Example, if you mix hydrochloric acid with sodium hydroxide, you will get sodium chloride, table salt. The reason table salt is so soluble is because it's produced by mixing a strong acid with a strong base.

    This means that a strong base or strong acid or combinations of the 2 will keep your reservoir from becoming cloudy.
     
    Enigma likes this.
  18.  
    Bootheel Grower

    Bootheel Grower Active Member

     
  19.  
    churchhaze

    churchhaze Well-Known Member

    Now it makes more sense. You're using soil. There's no need to mess with pH in soil. If built correctly, it should already be the right pH. You'd likely get the same exact results without fucking with the weak acids and bases, maybe even better. Reducing sodium would have the same noticeable effect as boosting potassium without actually adding more potassium. Soil is deficient in potassium enough as it is!
     
    Enigma likes this.
  20.  
    Bootheel Grower

    Bootheel Grower Active Member

    Yeah.. I live pretty far out in the country and have to run well water.. There are certain times of the year when my water's ph is off the charts so I keep a close eye on it.. Even tho I'm a soil grower when my ph is up over 7.5 my plants don't like it
     

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