CobKits
Well-Known Member
i wanna go to bovine university
DIY 4x12 3500K/5000k lm561c two channel board
- Thread starter VegasWinner
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- lm561c samsung pcb
CobKits
Well-Known Member
it varies wildly based on lab. for a series of measurements (i.e. multiple currents) ive been quoted $300 a measurement. so 1-2G to plot an efficiency vs current curve for a single device
VegasWinner
Well-Known Member
Average set of four cobs using a 185H-C1400A/B driver at 200w, using 36v cobs will draw more energy kWh than a GrowGreen 200w board using a 185H-C1050A/B driver covering the same area. After running 4 -cree cxb3590 36v 3500K using a 185H-C1400B driver for two years my electric bill was pretty predictable. After switching over to a GrowGreen 200w board using a 185H-C1050B driver I have seen a drop in my electric bill. I have power meters connected up to my light fixtures and with 800w of GrowGreen pcb's my power bill is lower than my 400w of cob fixtures.
Having multiple channels to fine tune the desired spectrum for plant response is always a plus for any grower no matter what you are growing.
right now I have a side by side comparison with 5000k/3500k and 5000k/3000k using the same tomato plants; clones from same plant; both growing in same conditions side by side. I provided a picture earlier. The tomato plants on he Right are under the 3000k/5000k fixture, while the Left side is the 3500k/5000k. The tomato plants on the Left are long and flowering. The plants on the Right are short and flowering. In fact the tomato plants on he Right began fruiting quicker than the plants on the Left. Both lights are driven at he same drive current, and same wattage output.
Also notice how the micro-greens are situated approximately 4" above the 200w fixture on he Right and there is no HEAT issue arising from the fixture running at full power. The same is true of the fixture on the Left, except the plants want to crowd the light and I have to move the plants around since I am not raising the light any further. also notice the herb garden above that 200w fixture running at full power with no HEAT issues above that fixture either. No Heat stress.
Can a COB fixture do that with active cooling on a heat sink with a pc fan? I already know that answer. NO. Cobs create a heat zone above the passive or active cooled cobs and you cannot use the space above cob fixtures except for fans or remove heat. The same is true in a tent. I have the same fixture in a 2x2 tent picture provided with the pcb installed inside a dryer duct to remove any heat created by he GrowGreen board. My problem is keeping up with the feeding schedule. The plants are bushier than when I was using 5000k for veg alone.
Mixing the 5000k with the 3500k makes a great veg machine, but I already knew that I posted a thread over a year ago about mixing 3500k with 5000k cxb cobs and got great results, which led to more testing with flexible strips to verify what I already knew now from my testing.
The Industry is catching up with my thinking. Nothing new there. I have always been an industry leader staying on the forefront cutting edge vs. following the crowd. That is how I came here in the first place to see what was all the noise about led's going on here. I followed @SupraSPL @Growmau5 @Greengenes707 @robincnn @welight and many others including chilLED grow lights. I studied his Gen 1 and Gen 2 boards for technology. I watched his dialog with @Growmau5 and enjoyed it immensely. That was when I was inspired, lower energy better growth. listening intently to glean the most from everyone, that is how I stay current, listening to young people all the time.
I was sold. I bought some Gen 2 boards from ChilLed and use them religiously. I do NOT copy anyone. The GrowGreen came from my two years of testing and experience, just as my led controllers came from the same. I have been using GrowGreen led 6 channel controller for almost two years now and not even a glitch even when power goes out. I don't dim my lights with controller, just on/off.
I think lab testing is great for marketing but real results speak volumes to testing.
I know some of you here prefer to treat in a way consistent with what you think I deserve, but I do not accept that treatment and I ignore it. So if you find you are commenting and I am not responding to your comments, you are probably on that list that believes you know me or my work without ever having any personal experience with my work.
I have 40 years of successful clients, but that was then this is now. I still practice the same attitude as I always have, the customer is always right, even when they are wrong. it is called respect the core of my business and personal principles.I treat the customer that spends $20 with me the same a customer spends $2500 with me, like family.
Regarding testing. testing is a cost. In a CO-OP the members would vote to have the testing and how to pay for the testing. Even tho this Co-OP does not have paying membership I have seen some comments regarding testing already, and I will just leave it at that.
response from laboratory for testing for $550 with output file.
Test we discussed was our distribution and color ( sphere ) test.
This is our test SKU501
Jason.==
Jason Gee
www.lightlaboratory.com
714 282-2270 x 102
714-947-1411 - direct
ISO/IES 17025 Accredited Laboratory
Having multiple channels to fine tune the desired spectrum for plant response is always a plus for any grower no matter what you are growing.
right now I have a side by side comparison with 5000k/3500k and 5000k/3000k using the same tomato plants; clones from same plant; both growing in same conditions side by side. I provided a picture earlier. The tomato plants on he Right are under the 3000k/5000k fixture, while the Left side is the 3500k/5000k. The tomato plants on the Left are long and flowering. The plants on the Right are short and flowering. In fact the tomato plants on he Right began fruiting quicker than the plants on the Left. Both lights are driven at he same drive current, and same wattage output.
Also notice how the micro-greens are situated approximately 4" above the 200w fixture on he Right and there is no HEAT issue arising from the fixture running at full power. The same is true of the fixture on the Left, except the plants want to crowd the light and I have to move the plants around since I am not raising the light any further. also notice the herb garden above that 200w fixture running at full power with no HEAT issues above that fixture either. No Heat stress.
Can a COB fixture do that with active cooling on a heat sink with a pc fan? I already know that answer. NO. Cobs create a heat zone above the passive or active cooled cobs and you cannot use the space above cob fixtures except for fans or remove heat. The same is true in a tent. I have the same fixture in a 2x2 tent picture provided with the pcb installed inside a dryer duct to remove any heat created by he GrowGreen board. My problem is keeping up with the feeding schedule. The plants are bushier than when I was using 5000k for veg alone.
Mixing the 5000k with the 3500k makes a great veg machine, but I already knew that I posted a thread over a year ago about mixing 3500k with 5000k cxb cobs and got great results, which led to more testing with flexible strips to verify what I already knew now from my testing.
The Industry is catching up with my thinking. Nothing new there. I have always been an industry leader staying on the forefront cutting edge vs. following the crowd. That is how I came here in the first place to see what was all the noise about led's going on here. I followed @SupraSPL @Growmau5 @Greengenes707 @robincnn @welight and many others including chilLED grow lights. I studied his Gen 1 and Gen 2 boards for technology. I watched his dialog with @Growmau5 and enjoyed it immensely. That was when I was inspired, lower energy better growth. listening intently to glean the most from everyone, that is how I stay current, listening to young people all the time.
I was sold. I bought some Gen 2 boards from ChilLed and use them religiously. I do NOT copy anyone. The GrowGreen came from my two years of testing and experience, just as my led controllers came from the same. I have been using GrowGreen led 6 channel controller for almost two years now and not even a glitch even when power goes out. I don't dim my lights with controller, just on/off.
I think lab testing is great for marketing but real results speak volumes to testing.
I know some of you here prefer to treat in a way consistent with what you think I deserve, but I do not accept that treatment and I ignore it. So if you find you are commenting and I am not responding to your comments, you are probably on that list that believes you know me or my work without ever having any personal experience with my work.
I have 40 years of successful clients, but that was then this is now. I still practice the same attitude as I always have, the customer is always right, even when they are wrong. it is called respect the core of my business and personal principles.I treat the customer that spends $20 with me the same a customer spends $2500 with me, like family.
Regarding testing. testing is a cost. In a CO-OP the members would vote to have the testing and how to pay for the testing. Even tho this Co-OP does not have paying membership I have seen some comments regarding testing already, and I will just leave it at that.
response from laboratory for testing for $550 with output file.
Test we discussed was our distribution and color ( sphere ) test.
This is our test SKU501
Jason.==
Jason Gee
www.lightlaboratory.com
714 282-2270 x 102
714-947-1411 - direct
ISO/IES 17025 Accredited Laboratory
VegasWinner
Well-Known Member
I was taught there are three Proofs, Documentary Proof; written facts;, Theoretical Proof; theories untested; Actual Proof; results based outcome. Of the three Actual Proof is the most important.
If you want to form an informed opinion of the GrowGreen board you can CO-Op a board or two or you can contact this company -> https://tophspcb.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2700.8443308.0.0.mMeK17
ask for Jeff Wei and he will provide you with 13 GrowGreen boards for a fee of course.
This is the same company that makes the Quantum Board. Issues of genuine Samsung diodes, quality of construction, or other issues relative to the supplier are non-existent.
The Grow Green board is MY design, and I share it openly just as I do all of my ideas.
namaste
If you want to form an informed opinion of the GrowGreen board you can CO-Op a board or two or you can contact this company -> https://tophspcb.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2700.8443308.0.0.mMeK17
ask for Jeff Wei and he will provide you with 13 GrowGreen boards for a fee of course.
This is the same company that makes the Quantum Board. Issues of genuine Samsung diodes, quality of construction, or other issues relative to the supplier are non-existent.
The Grow Green board is MY design, and I share it openly just as I do all of my ideas.
namaste
nfhiggs
Well-Known Member
<I have power meters connected up to my light fixtures and with 800w of GrowGreen pcb's my power bill is lower than my 400w of cob fixtures.>
So watts through your board are somehow more than 50% "smaller" than watts through a COB.... Riiiiight.
Do you really expect anyone to believe that nonsense?
So watts through your board are somehow more than 50% "smaller" than watts through a COB.... Riiiiight.
Do you really expect anyone to believe that nonsense?
CannaBruh
Well-Known Member
Righteous of you to share your sources and supply chain @VegasWinner but I too am curious about the 50% mystery watt savings.
jonsnow399
Well-Known Member
Cree and Samsung are just now catching up to him.
CannaBruh
Well-Known Member
@jonsnow399 who is catching up to who? Are both Samsung and Cree using diodes produced by @VegasWinner?
This paragraph needs more explaining; 200W =/= 200W is confusing me?
While I can agree that I'll take real world practice over being pencil whipped on the datasheet if what you claim is correct then testing should support it.
jonsnow399
Well-Known Member
sarcasm
VegasWinner
Well-Known Member
No mystery Watts are not . KilloWattsperHour (kWh). The two are entirely different. 200 watts is 200 watts. However, 200 watts being driven at 1400mA cost more after 12 hours than 200 watts being driven at 1050mA, by a 25% savings alone. So after 12 hours of running a meanwell HLG-185H-C1400B driver will cost based on amps being drawn.
HLG-185H-C1400B HLG-185H-C1050B
1.4A x 12 = 16.8kWh 1.05 x 12 = 12.6 kWh
1 month 30 x 16.8 kWh = 504 kWh 30 x 12.6 kWh = 378 kWh
12 months 12 x 504kWh = 6048 kWh 12 x 378 kWh = 4536 kWh
cost per kWh $ 0.16 $967.68 $ 725.76
average cost savings is $241.92
not calculated is cost of cooling. COB's generate that has to be removed as do SMD's. However I have shown the heat from SMD's is much lower than COB's as I have yet to see a four cob setup with plants over the cobs with another set of cobs over those plants, as well. Two levels of COB's 200w each level can not be sustained, while 200w each level with SMD's is doable. less heat so heat extraction is more expensive fr COB's using passive pin sinks as most folks use nowadays.
Not only will youy save money generating 1275 PPFD at 12" from SMD's, you will do so more efficiently and cost effectively. I get daily and weekly u8pdates from the power company detailing usage and comparing to previous days and weeks. I can even see when my OL turns on her FANS or AC in the bill.
namaste
HLG-185H-C1400B HLG-185H-C1050B
1.4A x 12 = 16.8kWh 1.05 x 12 = 12.6 kWh
1 month 30 x 16.8 kWh = 504 kWh 30 x 12.6 kWh = 378 kWh
12 months 12 x 504kWh = 6048 kWh 12 x 378 kWh = 4536 kWh
cost per kWh $ 0.16 $967.68 $ 725.76
average cost savings is $241.92
not calculated is cost of cooling. COB's generate that has to be removed as do SMD's. However I have shown the heat from SMD's is much lower than COB's as I have yet to see a four cob setup with plants over the cobs with another set of cobs over those plants, as well. Two levels of COB's 200w each level can not be sustained, while 200w each level with SMD's is doable. less heat so heat extraction is more expensive fr COB's using passive pin sinks as most folks use nowadays.
Not only will youy save money generating 1275 PPFD at 12" from SMD's, you will do so more efficiently and cost effectively. I get daily and weekly u8pdates from the power company detailing usage and comparing to previous days and weeks. I can even see when my OL turns on her FANS or AC in the bill.
namaste
Got to say I am also struggling with this..
Photon Flinger
Well-Known Member
He is talking about heat loss maybe? Or having to run his lights on shorter cycles to get the same DLI. If so, I totally agree, my last run was down to 5.5hrs on.
VegasWinner
Well-Known Member
If you use a driver that draws 3 amps per hour to make 200w or you use a driver that draws 2 amps per hour the driver drawing less amps making 200 watts cost less per hour/day/week/month/year.
That is called efficiency. You can make 200 watts drawing less amps at the same volts: watts = amps x volts.
I hope the simplified version is easier to comprehend.
Simple analogy you can cook with a 500w microwave or a 1200w microwave. The 1200w costs more to do the same thing.
VegasWinner
Well-Known Member
Please follow along. 4 cobs make plenty of heat one pcb makes less heat than four cobs at the same wattage. Less heat same watts more efficient.
VegasWinner
Well-Known Member
Yes. Both fixtures use a 200w driver. Think about all 185h drivers are 200 watts all 185h drivers are designed to deliver 200w the lower the amps less heat more efficiency. A c350 is more efficient than a c500 than a c1050 c1400 c1750 etc.
Lower amps less resistance less heat more efficiency
VegasWinner
Well-Known Member
If you look at the entire family of Meanwell 185h drivers you will discover the lower the operating amps the smaller the driver the less heat generated by the driver and the cob/smd which is why it is recommended to use more cobs at lower amps for better efficiencies but it cost more to drive cobs lower with more cobs not so much with smds.
nc208
Well-Known Member
sorry but there should be no difference between the 200w being used. for example
If your using a vero 29 d which is 36v
if your driving it at 1050 ma is 37.8w
if your driving it at 1400ma it is 50.4w
you would need 5 cobs at 1050ma to equal 4 cobs at 1400ma but your electric costs are the same. The cost difference would be number of fixtures used. Your using .2 K/W with 1050 or 1400.
If your using a vero 29 d which is 36v
if your driving it at 1050 ma is 37.8w
if your driving it at 1400ma it is 50.4w
you would need 5 cobs at 1050ma to equal 4 cobs at 1400ma but your electric costs are the same. The cost difference would be number of fixtures used. Your using .2 K/W with 1050 or 1400.
VegasWinner
Well-Known Member
Study the driver you are using because you are missing the point and I can't help you any longer. You are going to have to take an electrical course before you claim I am wrong