could it be that the religion islam is a trojan horse

UncleBuck said:

you keep saying this, but there is nothing about homosexuality being wrong in the new testament. yet christians are infamous for their gay bashing.

do you see the obvious double standard in your posts that i see?

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No, but the confusion of my point seems to be widespread. Since the new testament doesn't condemn homosexuality, and christians are to live by the new testament, these christians that bash gays are doing so because they desire to, and not because christianity commands them to do so. There are things that are frowned upon in the new testament including fornication, drunkenness, profanity, lust, and generally having a good time. J/K on that last, but not really. We have historically seen christians rise up against each of these things, in part because the bible teaches that they displease god. They seem to think that god needs help handling these topics, which is strange since he is supposedly so powerful. God had already worked out the plan, if you do these things you either go to hell, or accept jesus and get off scott free (allowing for slight differences between different sects). Their god does not command that christians get involved in punishing these offenses, and it seems really cruel when you consider the offenders will be spending eternity in the worst place imaginable. Do they really need an ass-kicking on top of that horrible fate? I digress, because I'm high. The bottom line is that many christians bash gays because they don't like them, perhaps because they read in leviticus that they displease god, perhaps because they think they're icky, perhaps because they themselves are frightened by their own homosexual feelings. Whatever the reason, it is not because god commands it.

This, is opposed to Islam, for Islam does command that muslims act against homosexuals -
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Homosexuality

Qur'an
If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
Qur'an 4:16 (also see Tafsirs of this verse below)
We also (sent) Lut: He said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women : ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" But we saved him and his family, except his wife: she was of those who legged behind. And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): Then see what was the end of those who indulged in sin and crime!
Qur'an 7:80
"Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!" They said: "If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!" He said: "I do detest your doings. O my Lord! deliver me and my family from such things as they do!" So We delivered him and his family,- all Except an old woman who lingered behind. Then afterward We destroyed the others. We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)!
Qur'an 26:165
(We also sent) Lut (as a messenger): behold, He said to his people, "Do ye do what is shameful though ye see (its iniquity)? Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant! But his people gave no other answer but this: they said, "Drive out the followers of Lut from your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" Then We saved him and his household save his wife; We destined her to be of those who stayed behind. And We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)!
Qur'an 27:54
And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. "Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." He said: "O my Lord! help Thou me against people who do mischief!" When Our Messengers came to Abraham with the good news, they said: "We are indeed going to destroy the people of this township: for truly they are (addicted to) crime."
Qur'an 29:28
Hadith
Sahih Bukhari
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet cursed effeminate men; those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, "Turn them out of your houses." The Prophet turned out such-and-such man, and 'Umar turned out such-and-such woman.
Sahih Bukhari 7:72:774
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet cursed effeminate men and those women who assume the similitude (manners) of men. He also said, "Turn them out of your houses." He turned out such-and-such person out, and 'Umar turned out such-and-such person.

There's more on that page, I could not copy and paste it all without exceeding my limit.

So, one religion does not command its followers to act against the perpetrators of these 'sins', and the other religion does. I see no double standard here...

that is just wishful thinking my friend.

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Perhaps, it seems that we are both simply speculating on what muslims are thinking...

i'm gonna hop out of this one, you don't seem to be prepared to abandon demonstrably false views.

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Okay. You are an intelligent dude, I enjoyed the exchange. I am willing to abandon my views if someone were to demonstrate that they are false...

UncleBuck said:

are those the same educated and affluent folks who are shrewd enough to discern that our support for israel is pretty much not religious and whatnot?

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I don't know. I didn't say that our support for israel was not religious, I simply stated that religion is not the only reason for our support...

you seem to be implying that these are smart people who are not fighting because they perceive judeo-christian westerners supporting israel or because their homeland was invaded and their countrymen killed, but solely because "the foran commands them to do so".

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I did not say that that their only motivation was solely the koranic commands, I recognize that our unjustified war against their homeland was most likely a catalyst to their terrorist acts in many cases. We have so far only been discussing muslim acts of terrorism against the western world (particularly the US), and introduced the fact that retaliation plays a part those terrorist acts. But what about muslim attacks against the Eastern world, where retaliation against the West, or anyone, isn't a factor?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#North_Africa

Sorry for the long cut & paste, there's many more incidents in many more countries on the page -

South America

Argentina

The 1992 attack on Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires was a suicide bombing attack on the building of the Israeli embassy of Argentina, located in Buenos Aires, which was carried out on 17 March 1992. Twenty-nine civilians were killed in the attack and 242 additional civilians were injured. A group called Islamic Jihad Organization, which has been linked to Iran and possibly Hezbollah,[118] claimed responsibility.

An incident from 1994 known as the AMIA bombing was an attack on the Asociación Mutual Israelita Argentina (Argentine Israelite Mutual Association) building in Buenos Aires. It occurred on July 18 and killed 85 people and injured hundreds more.[119] A suicide bomber drove a Renault Trafic van bomb loaded with about 275 kilograms (606 lb) of ammonium nitrate fertilizer and fuel oil explosive mixture,[120][121] into the Jewish Community Center building located in a densely constructed commercial area of Buenos Aires. Prosecutors Alberto Nisman and Marcelo Martínez Burgos formally accused the government of Iran of directing the bombing, and the Hezbollah militia of carrying it out.[122][123] The prosecution claimed that Argentina had been targeted by Iran after Buenos Aires' decision to suspend a nuclear technology transfer contract to Tehran.[124]

Central Asia

Afghanistan

According to Human Rights Watch, Taliban and Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin forces have "sharply escalated bombing and other attacks" against civilians since 2006. In 2006, "at least 669 Afghan civilians were killed in at least 350 armed attacks, most of which appear to have been intentionally launched at civilians or civilian objects."[125]

Tajikistan

The government blamed the IMU (Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan) for training those responsible for carrying out a suicide car bombing of a police station in Khujand on September 3, 2010. Two policemen were killed and 25 injured.[126]

Uzbekistan

See also: Terrorism in Uzbekistan

On February 16, 1999, six car bombs exploded in Tashkent, killing 16 and injuring more than 100, in what may have been an attempt to assassinate President Islam Karimov. The IMU was blamed.[127]

The IMU launched a series of attacks in Tashkent and Bukhara in March and April 2004. Gunmen and female suicide bombers took part in the attacks, which mainly targeted police. The violence killed 33 militants, 10 policemen, and four civilians.[128] The government blamed Hizb ut-Tahrir,[129] though the Islamic Jihad Union (IJU) claimed responsibility.[130]

Furkat Kasimovich Yusupov was arrested in the first half of 2004, and charged as the leader of a group that had carried out the March 28 bombing on behalf of Hizb ut-Tahrir.[131]

On July 30, 2004, suicide bombers struck the entrances of the US and Israeli embassies in Tashkent. Two Uzbek security guards were killed in both bombings.[132] The IJU again claimed responsibility.[130]

Foreign commentators on Uzbek affairs speculated that the 2004 violence could have been the work of the IMU, Al-Qaeda, Hizb ut-Tahrir, or some other radical Islamic organization.[133][134]

Turkey

Hezbollah in Turkey (unrelated to the Shia Hezbollah in Lebanon) is a Sunni terrorist group[139] accused of a series of attacks, including the November 2003 bombings of two synagogues, the British consulate in Istanbul and HSBC bank headquarters that killed 58.[140] Hizbullah's leader, Hüseyin Velioğlu, was killed in action by Turkish police in Beykoz on 17 January 2000. Besides Hizbullah, other Islamic groups listed as a terrorist organization by Turkish police counter-terrorism include Great Eastern Islamic Raiders' Front, al-Qaeda in Turkey, Tevhid-Selam (also known as al-Quds Army) and Caliphate State. Islamic Party of Kurdistan and Hereketa İslamiya Kurdistan are also Islamist groups active against Turkey, however unlike Hizbullah they're yet to be listed as active terrorist organizations in Turkey by Turkish police counter-terrorism.[141]

Middle East / Southwest Asia

Iraq

The area that has seen some of the worst terror attacks in modern history has been Iraq as part of the Iraq War. In 2005, there were 400 incidents of one type of attack (suicide bombing), killing more than 2,000 people – many if not most of them civilians.[147] In 2006, almost half of all reported terrorist attacks in the world (6,600), and more than half of all terrorist fatalities (13,000), occurred in Iraq, according to the National Counterterrorism Center of the United States.[148] Along with nationalist groups and criminal, non-political attacks, the Iraqi insurgency includes Islamist insurgent groups, such as Al-Qaeda in Iraq, who favor suicide attacks far more than non-Islamist groups. At least some of the terrorism has a transnational character in that some foreign Islamic jihadists have joined the insurgency.[149]

Algeria

The Armed Islamic Group, active in Algeria between 1992 and 1998, was one of the most violent Islamic terrorist groups, and is thought to have takfired the Muslim population of Algeria. Its campaign to overthrow the Algerian government included civilian massacres, sometimes wiping out entire villages in its area of operation. It also targeted foreigners living in Algeria, killing more than 100 expatriates in the country. In recent years it has been eclipsed by a splinter group, the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC), now called Al-Qaeda Organization in the Islamic Maghreb.[192][193]

South Asia

Bangladesh

In Bangladesh the group Jamaat-ul-Mujahideen Bangladesh was formed sometime in 1998 and gained prominence in 2001.[200] The organization was officially banned in February 2005 after attacks on NGOs, but struck back in August when 300 bombs were detonated almost simultaneously throughout Bangladesh, targeting Shahjalal International Airport, government buildings and major hotels.[201][202]

India

Main category: Islamic terrorism in India

See also: Terrorism in India

Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed are militant groups seeking accession of Kashmir to Pakistan from India.[203] The Lashkar leadership describes Indian and Israel regimes as the main enemies of Islam and Pakistan that is an extremist thought but is not real.[204] Lashkar-e-Toiba, along with Jaish-e-Mohammed, another militant group active in Kashmir are on the United States’ foreign terrorist organizations list, and are also designated as terrorist groups by the United Kingdom,[205] India, Australia[206] and Pakistan.[207] Jaish-e-Mohammed was formed in 1994 and has carried out a series of attacks all over India.[208][209] The group was formed after the supporters of Maulana Masood Azhar split from another Islamic militant organization, Harkat-ul-Mujahideen. Jaish-e-Mohammed is viewed by some as the "deadliest" and "the principal terrorist organization in Jammu and Kashmir".[210] The group was also implicated in the kidnapping and murder of American journalist Daniel Pearl.[210]

Some major bomb blasts and attacks in India were perpetrated by Islamic militants from Pakistan, e.g. the 2008 Mumbai attacks and 2001 Indian Parliament attack.

The Philippines

See also: Terrorism in the Philippines

The Abu Sayyaf Group, also known as al-Harakat al-Islamiyya, is one of several militant Islamic-separatist groups based in and around the southern islands of the Philippines, in Bangsamoro (Jolo, Basilan, and Mindanao) where for almost 30 years various Muslim groups have been engaged in an insurgency for a state, independent of the predominantly Christian Philippines. The name of the group is derived from the Arabic ابو, abu ("father of") and sayyaf ("Swordsmith").[211] Since its inception in the early 1990s, the group has carried out bombings, assassinations, kidnappings and extortion in their fight for an independent Islamic state in western Mindanao and the Sulu Archipelago with the stated goal of creating a pan-Islamic superstate across southeast Asia, spanning from east to west; the island of Mindanao, the Sulu Archipelago, the island of Borneo (Malaysia, Indonesia), the South China Sea, and the Malay Peninsula (Peninsular Malaysia, Thailand and Myanmar).[212] The U.S. Department of State has branded the group a terrorist entity by adding it to the list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations.[212]


Islam seems to be a threat that affects the world, not just the western regions, and it is not usually motivated by retaliation...

damn tyler how do you fit all that knowledge in your head lol

thepenofareadywriter said:

damn tyler how do you fit all that knowledge in your head lol

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It's not as great as it seems, it takes the place of where a personality should be

What I find kind of funny in all this is that these terror cells you mentioned are the result of CIA funding and support during the soviet era, These founding members were CIA asset's found in refugee camps and various corners of the Middle East and Africa, many if not all of these groups were able to establish themselves because of us, and later "betray" us as terrorists today.

"In 1979 the largest covert operation in the history of the CIA was launched in Afghanistan. Wahabi missionaries from Saudi Arabia set up the Coranic schools (madrassahs) in Pakistan and Afghanistan. The Islamic textbooks used in the madrassahs were printed and published in Nebraska. Covert funding was channeled to the Mujahideen with the support of the CIA"
http://www.globalresearch.ca/al-qaeda-in-the-islamic-maghreb-whos-whos-who-is-behind-the-terrorists/5319754

"The Central Intelligence Agency, which has been supporting indigenous Afghan groups fighting occupying Soviet forces, becomes unhappy with them due to infighting, and searches for alternative anti-Soviet allies."
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=western_support_for_islamic_militancy_2832

"Abdullah Azzam, Osama bin Laden's mentor and the father of modern, global jihad, was one of the cofounders of MDI. MDI enjoyed active support from both the Pakistani Intelligence Services (ISI) and the CIA for fighting alongside the mujahedeen.[3] After the Soviet withdrawal, Pakistan appropriated the assets created during the Afghan war to wage a proxy war against India in Jammu and Kashmir (J&K). In 1990 LeT was launched as a separate military wing of MDI.[4] Hence, LeT's commitment to global jihad, connections with Al Qaeda (AQ), and strong state support can be traced back to its very birth as an organization."
https://globalecco.org/ctx-v1n1/lashkar-e-taiba

I wont bother quoting everything, but it comes down to following the money, who's getting paid, by whom. Currently modern Jihad is what it is because we wanted it that way.

rolledupdriver said:

What I find kind of funny in all this is that these terror cells you mentioned are the result of CIA funding and support during the soviet era, These founding members were CIA asset's found in refugee camps and various corners of the Middle East and Africa, many if not all of these groups were able to establish themselves because of us, and later "betray" us as terrorists today.

"In 1979 the largest covert operation in the history of the CIA was launched in Afghanistan. Wahabi missionaries from Saudi Arabia set up the Coranic schools (madrassahs) in Pakistan and Afghanistan. The Islamic textbooks used in the madrassahs were printed and published in Nebraska. Covert funding was channeled to the Mujahideen with the support of the CIA"
http://www.globalresearch.ca/al-qaeda-in-the-islamic-maghreb-whos-whos-who-is-behind-the-terrorists/5319754

"The Central Intelligence Agency, which has been supporting indigenous Afghan groups fighting occupying Soviet forces, becomes unhappy with them due to infighting, and searches for alternative anti-Soviet allies."
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=western_support_for_islamic_militancy_2832

"Abdullah Azzam, Osama bin Laden's mentor and the father of modern, global jihad, was one of the cofounders of MDI. MDI enjoyed active support from both the Pakistani Intelligence Services (ISI) and the CIA for fighting alongside the mujahedeen.[3] After the Soviet withdrawal, Pakistan appropriated the assets created during the Afghan war to wage a proxy war against India in Jammu and Kashmir (J&K). In 1990 LeT was launched as a separate military wing of MDI.[4] Hence, LeT's commitment to global jihad, connections with Al Qaeda (AQ), and strong state support can be traced back to its very birth as an organization."
https://globalecco.org/ctx-v1n1/lashkar-e-taiba

I wont bother quoting everything, but it comes down to following the money, who's getting paid, by whom. Currently modern Jihad is what it is because we wanted it that way.

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There was a special on the military channel ( now American heroes network..or something..idk) about how we spent 30 yrs funding and training "rebels" in Libya by the CIA in an effort to undermine the regime. There were actual CIA officials who had worked on the campaign talking about it, yet people don't want to believe it when I talk about it, and when I tell them to watch the special they give some excuse as to why it's probably not true rather then give it a watch and see for themselves..